Does God know what we will do in the future? Our fate?

[JohnB445]

Was having this discussion with my dad, he made some good points. For example, we all have free will and we are what determine our destiny. I was arguing that God knows our fate, and what we will do in the future, but that view changed.

If God knows exactly what we're going to do, then why did Hitler exist if his fate was already predetermined that he was going to go to hell?

Or does God not know what we will do in the future with our free will? Did God know that when Hitler was born that he was going to mass murder Jews, and did God already have Hitler in the book of death before his existence?

The concept that God gave us free will, and that he doesn't know what we will do with our free will in the future makes more sense to me, but what are your thoughts or objections aside from prophecies, I understand God knew the prophecies very well and planned out, but what about our future actions. Does God know those?

 

[TuxAme]

God knows what we'll do with our free will and permits it to happen, no matter how badly we abuse it.

 

[Dan the deacon]

Was having this discussion with my dad, he made some good points. For example, we all have free will and we are what determine our destiny. I was arguing that God knows our fate, and what we will do in the future, but that view changed.

If God knows exactly what we're going to do, then why did Hitler exist if his fate was already predetermined that he was going to go to hell?

Or does God not know what we will do in the future with our free will? Did God know that when Hitler was born that he was going to mass murder Jews, and did God already have Hitler in the book of death before his existence?

The concept that God gave us free will, and that he doesn't know what we will do with our free will in the future makes more sense to me, but what are your thoughts or objections aside from prophecies, I understand God knew the prophecies very well and planned out, but what about our future actions. Does God know those?

Because God made us with a will of our own. He tries to lead us but many are not willing.
God knows all.things. He knows about our sons before we sin. Bit God did not male us robots programmed to do His will. He made us in His image and likeness. We just abuse it.
So how do we fix this? By living like Christ. He is our example.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Was having this discussion with my dad, he made some good points. For example, we all have free will and we are what determine our destiny. I was arguing that God knows our fate, and what we will do in the future, but that view changed.

If God knows exactly what we're going to do, then why did Hitler exist if his fate was already predetermined that he was going to go to hell?

Or does God not know what we will do in the future with our free will? Did God know that when Hitler was born that he was going to mass murder Jews, and did God already have Hitler in the book of death before his existence?

The concept that God gave us free will, and that he doesn't know what we will do with our free will in the future makes more sense to me, but what are your thoughts or objections aside from prophecies, I understand God knew the prophecies very well and planned out, but what about our future actions. Does God know those?

God knows everything that is knowable, and He knows of very possibility arising out of any choice we make. But the future doesn't exist yet. Detailed specific knowledge of the future is the stuff of science fiction and philosophy. The future depends on the decisions we make today. Because there are infinite possibilities arising out of the decisions that people make, and God is infinite, He knows and is prepared for any possibility that might arise.

Where the words of prophets have suggested that God might know the future, it is because God has plans for the future and He brings them to pass by influencing important and significant decisions at times.

Talking about Hitler, there is a good book about the miracles that happened during the second world war, and that some of the silly decisions that Hitler made that saved England, and lost him the war in Europe were actually orchestrated by God to preserve the spread of the gospel in the free world. The decision by the Japanese to bomb Pearl Harbour was a decision that ultimately lost Hitler the war, because Churchill was able to get the Americans to concentrate on Europe first, then to defeat the Japanese. Also, who do you think assisted the Americans to break the Japanese naval code. enabling them to turn the tide against the Japanese at Midway? Who do you think caused a Uboat to surface and be captured, enabling the British to get hold of an Enigma machine to help break the German code? Who gave Turing the wisdom to build his computer for the same purpose?

This shows that God does influence the decisions of world leaders where it is important for the safe spread of the Gospel.

But He does not micromanage ordinary believers, and our future does really depend on the decisions we make. I contend that Jesus did not know that Judas was a crook when He appointed him to be an Apostle. He found out as time went on. Then He realised that Judas was the fulfillment of an earlier prophecy. When Jesus encountered real faith in non-Jews, He was surprised and amazed, and rejoiced at it. He wasn't expecting it.

It does not diminish the wonder and greatness of God, nor does it water down his all-knowing nature. But He cannot know what does not exist yet. He can predict what might happen based on the trends, but an unexpected response like the walking away of the rich young ruler can disappoint and sadden Him. Jesus would not have had these emotional responses if He had fully known what exactly was going to happen.

And, there are a number of events in the Old Testament where God changed His mind, such as Nineveh, his determination to destroy disobedient Israel and form a new nation through Moses, offering to spare Sodom and Gomorrah if there were just 10 righteous men in those cities - through negotiation with Abraham. Repenting that He made Saul king of Israel and appointing David instead, just to name a few.

Actually, all this makes Christian life much more exciting, knowing that our future depends on what we choose now. We can set up our future in Christ and cause God to rejoice over us that we have chosen for Him.

 

[ColoRaydo]

This is a very simple answer from a very simple mind compared to God’s infinite knowledge of every cell in our bodies.

I think of it this way: I can give my youngest daughter a free choice for tv and dinner. Sponge Bob or football and Sushi or MacNCheese. She has total freedom to choose which one she will watch and eat. I will not influence her in anyway, but I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that she will choose Sponge Bob and MacNCheese.

God knows my mind. He knows my every thought. He knows exactly what I will do in any situation because he knew me in my mother’s womb. I may have free choice, but he already knows the outcome.

Now, apply that to every person on earth that has ever existed, exists now, and will exist in the future. They are all free to choose what they do, but God already knows.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

This is a very simple answer from a very simple mind compared to God’s infinite knowledge of every cell in our bodies.

I think of it this way: I can give my youngest daughter a free choice for dinner. Sushi or MacNCheese. She has total freedom to choose which one she will eat. I will not influence her in anyway, but I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that she will choose MacNCheese.

God knows my mind. He knows my every thought. He knows exactly what I will do in any situation because he knew me in my mother’s womb. I may have free choice, but he already knows the outcome.

Now, apply that to every person on earth that has ever existed, exists now, and will exist in the future. They are all free to choose what they do, but God already knows.

I agree on that basis, because God knows us better than we know ourselves. But I still maintain my position that although God knows all the possibilities, and the nature and character of people, He still does not know the non-existent future. He can predict with a great deal of certainty, and He is prepared for every possibility, but our decisions in favour of Him gives him joy and rejoicing. If He knew beyond doubt how we are going to choose, He would most likely just take it as a matter of fact, and say, "I knew that". But instead, when you read through the Bible, God is overjoyed at the decisions of some, and very disappointed at the decisions of others. Where judgment for Israel is just around the corner, a good king arises who is faithful to God and so God holds back from judgment and gives Israel and Judah another chance. He never intended for Israel and Judah to go into captivity, just like He never intended for the children of Israel to spend 40 extra years in the wilderness because of the wrong decisions of their leaders. If He knew exactly what was going to happen, He would have made allowances for it ahead of time. No. He had to go to Plan B. You will see in quite a number of cases where God went into Plan B over a wrong decision made. That's doesn't sound like a God who knew every detail of the future.

The science fiction God may have the whole future known and mapped out, but the evidence shows that the God of the Bible does not.

 

[BABerean2]

Joh 1:47 Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile!
Joh 1:48 Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him, Before that Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee.
Joh 1:49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.

.

 

[Sabertooth]

He knows the choices we will make and He knows when and where to make Himself known to appeal to their need for Salvation. There have been cases that He clearly spoke to someone who ended up dying in their rejection of Him.

If you need a Biblical example, consider Cain.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

He knows the choices we will make and He knows when and where to make Himself known to appeal to their need for Salvation. There have been cases that He clearly spoke to someone who ended up dying in their rejection of Him.

If you need a Biblical example, consider Cain.

So you are saying that God knew Cain was going to murder his brother even before he made that decision. If so, why did God try to talk him out of being angry and disappointed that He did not accept his offering?

 

[Sabertooth]

So you are saying that God knew Cain was going to murder his brother even before he made that decision.

No, I'm saying that, while God rejected Cain's offering, He told him that He would accept the proper offering from Cain (and what it was).

He held the door open for Cain, but [Cain] wouldn't accept His terms.

“Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen? If you do well, will you not be accepted...?" Genesis 4:6-7 NKJV

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

No, I'm saying that, while God rejected Cain's offering, He told him that He would accept the proper offering from Cain (and what it was).

He held the door open for Cain, but [Cain] wouldn't accept His terms.

If God knew beforehand that Cain was not going to accept His advice and was going to murder his brother anyway, why bother? He could have just stepped out of the picture and let it happen.

 

[Sabertooth]

If God knew beforehand that Cain was not going to accept His advice and was going to murder his brother anyway, why bother?

I wasn't referring to the murder. I was referring to God accepting Cain (via his sacrifice). God wanted Cain to make the right choice and invited him to do so. Besides the obvious murder, Cain rejected Salvation, when it was offered to him.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I wasn't referring to the murder. I was referring to God accepting Cain (via his sacrifice). God wanted Cain to make the right choice and invited him to do so. Besides the obvious murder, Cain rejected Salvation, when it was offered to him.

But, if God knew beforehand that Cain was going to reject His offer of salvation, why did He offer it if He knew it was a waste of effort doing so?

 

[Heart2Soul]

God is Omnipotent, Omnipresent, Omniscience.....He knows our coming and our going, He knows our thoughts, what is hidden in our hearts, the number of hairs on our head.....knew us before we were yet conceived and predestined us for the adoption to be His sons through Christ....has written our name in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world.


The names were written there before the foundation of the world, as that was when God chose His elect and gave them to the Lord Jesus Christ to save.


And they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world. (Revelation 17:8)


According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love. (Ephesians 1:4)

Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began. (II Timothy 1:9)

As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. (John 17:2)

This is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. (John 6:39)

So Yeah I think it is safe to say He knows everything we think and do and with what intent whether good or evil.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

God is Omnipotent, Omnipresent, Omniscience.....He knows our coming and our going, He knows our thoughts, what is hidden in our hearts, the number of hairs on our head.....knew us before we were yet conceived and predestined us for the adoption to be His sons through Christ....has written our name in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world.


The names were written there before the foundation of the world, as that was when God chose His elect and gave them to the Lord Jesus Christ to save.


And they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world. (Revelation 17:8)


According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love. (Ephesians 1:4)

Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began. (II Timothy 1:9)

As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. (John 17:2)

This is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. (John 6:39)

So Yeah I think it is safe to say He knows everything we think and do and with what intent whether good or evil.

These references to show that God knows everything that is knowable, but none of them prove that He knows the unknowable future which does not exist yet.

 

[Sabertooth]

But, if God knew beforehand that Cain was going to reject His offer of salvation, why did He offer it if He knew it was a waste of effort doing so?

That is a mystery, but I've heard of more contemporary versions of the same kind of thing.

One lady that my wife once worked for was told [by God] to tell a local celebrity that she knew that he needed to repent/get saved. He rejected her message. God told her to do it two more times with the same results. Shortly after that, he died.

The sister asked God why they went through that effort if He wasn't going to get saved. And God told her it was for His Glory.

My take was that it was a Godly "told-you-so" for when that person stands before Him.

See Matthew 13:3-9, particularly verse 4,

" And as he sowed, some seed fell by the wayside; and the birds came and devoured them."

and Matthew 13:18-23, particularly verse 19,

"When anyone hears the word of the kingdom, and does not understand it, then the wicked one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is he who received seed by the wayside."

 

[Heart2Soul]

These references to show that God knows everything that is knowable, but none of them prove that He knows the unknowable future which does not exist yet.

I don't think you thought this answer all the way through because I know you believe in the prophesies of the OT and that some have not come to pass yet.....that is knowing the future. lol

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

That is a mystery, but I've heard of more contemporary versions of the same kind of thing.

One lady that my wife once worked for was told [by God] to tell a local celebrity that she knew that he needed to repent/get saved. He rejected her message. God told her to do it two more times with the same results. Shortly after that, he died.

The sister asked God why they went through that effort if He wasn't going to get saved. And God told her it was for His Glory.

My take was that it was a Godly "told-you-so" for when that person stands before Him.

See Matthew 13:3-9, particularly verse 4,

" And as he sowed, some seed fell by the wayside; and the birds came and devoured them."

and Matthew 13:18-23, particularly verse 19,

"When anyone hears the word of the kingdom, and does not understand it, then the wicked one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is he who received seed by the wayside."

It is quite possible that the man had a medical condition that God knew about while no one else did. He sent the person to give him the gospel so that when he died he would have gone as a saved person. But in spite of God stepping in and using a person to give him one more chance of being saved, the gospel was rejected and the man died to await the judgment.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I don't think you thought this answer all the way through because I know you believe in the prophesies of the OT and that some have not come to pass yet.....that is knowing the future. lol

No it doesn't. It meant that God planned the future and arranged circumstances to bring it to pass. I can say that next year I am going to sell up and move to another city and buy a three bedroom house beside the sea and live out the rest of my retirement in peace. Then when it happens, it is because I planned it that way and I brought it to pass.

 

[Heart2Soul]

No it doesn't. It meant that God planned the future and arranged circumstances to bring it to pass. I can say that next year I am going to sell up and move to another city and buy a three bedroom house beside the sea and live out the rest of my retirement in peace. Then when it happens, it is because I planned it that way and I brought it to pass.

Well Oscarr I guess that settles it....ummmm except that He knew us before we were yet conceived and that our names are written in the Book of Life from the beginning of the foundation of the world.