In the context of space/time, yes. Also, He doesn't say "this will happen if" He says this is what happens, cause He can see it all from outside of time.
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Does God know/see the future?
- Thread starter Childlike
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In the context of space/time, yes. Also, He doesn't say "this will happen if" He says this is what happens, cause He can see it all from outside of time.
not following. You think that God only knew everything once he created "space-time?" That before then, everythign was up for grabs? Like, He creates space time and says "oh, NOW i know what will happen!" knowledge of everything isn't subject to space and time. God has always known everything about space and time, and always knew what would occur in this space and time. Because God is not bound by it, he is outside of it. He also knows everything outside of space-time. He IS reality.
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Regardless of the context of space-time, he knows everything there is to know, in space time and out of space time.
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Nope. Again I am saying that our perception is limited, not God. The very question of "pre-knowledge" is illogical. There is no "pre"
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Exactly. So wondering about whether He creates souls that He knows will go to Hell is illogical. That is the point.
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and this is where i don't see how you make the leap. How is God knowing that a soul will go to hell and then creating it illogical?
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Because of the word "will" in your statement.
There is no "will" since that talks about the future. If you want to talk about the Eternal Now, there is no "will"
In other words, everything in the Eternal Now is instantaneous.
There is no "will" since that talks about the future. If you want to talk about the Eternal Now, there is no "will"
In other words, everything in the Eternal Now is instantaneous.
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there is a "will" from our perspective. from God's perspective it has already happened. So, does he know that a soul will reject Him before it enters space-time? of course!
there is no way that you can say "God didn't know" at any point inside or outside of time.
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Really? So you think He creates some souls that He knows will go to Hell? And you think He is "All Loving"?
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So you think He creates some souls that He knows will go to Hell? And you think He is "All Loving"?
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Yes, obviously, if he knows everything...then he knows those that will and will not choose him, and has always known. yet willed them to be created anyways.
i do believe he is all loving, but he is also perfectly just. perfect love and perfect justice are never compromised in him.
read this:
http://www.leaderu.com/offices/billcraig/docs/craig-bradley1.html
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I am showing you that your belief is illogical. I am familiar with Craig...he's very good.
All Loving does not create a soul for the sole purpose of being tormented for Eternity.
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obviously, nobodies sole purpose is being tormented for eternity, or else God would send them directly to hell with no chance to impact this world for better or worse.
well, at least we've finally come to the heart of your problem. the truth is, scripture teaches that God knows all, and has known it forever. it also teaches that some freely choose to go to hell. God does create those who will freely choose to deny him. Obviously, God does not only create those who will choose him. So, why does he create those that will deny him? that is the question in the discussion between doc and myself.
and also, you really should read the debate. it is "can a loving God send people to hell?" exaclty what you are asking.
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Impact this world? What is this world? Jesus says it is a corpse. This world is simply a stage for choice.
Do you think that some people are created only in order to impact the lives of those that are saved? So, they are tormented for eternity through God's will, not their own faults?
Do you start to see why it is illogical?
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of course not, because the issue of pre-knowledge is a moot point. to say God once didn't know anything is denying the fact that he is omniscient. and if he's not omniscient, he is not God. i don't know of a single person, atheist or christian that argues that God at one point never knew something.
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