Does God know/see the future?

[cb]

Okay, Okay...this has gone on long enough!

The idea that God "doesn't know everything" is absurd, and completley counter-scriptural. One of the attributes that has ALWAYS been attributed to God is that he is omniscient (knows all). I do not know of a single scholar, liberal or evangelical, that believes in a God that is constricted by time, and does not know the future, much less the entire course of a person's life.

God knows "The End from the Beginning", Isaiah 46:10,

"Before a word is on my tounge, You know it O Lord, such knowledge is too lofty for me to attain." 139:4,

"Great is the Lord, Mighty is his power, His understanding is INFINITE." pslams 147:5

"Nothing in creation is hidden from God's sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account." Heb 4:13

As Norman Geisler points out in His book "Chosen but Free"...

"Even those who would eventually able saved were KNOWN by God (1 Peter 1:2) BEFORE the foundation of the world (Eph 1:4) By his LIMITLESS knowledge God is able to predict the exact course of human history (Daniel 2, 7) including the names of generations before they were born! Nearly TWO HUNDRED predictions were made by God about Messiah, no one of which failed. God knows all things, past present, and future." (emphasis mine)


If God does not know the future, then that really throws all the prophetic books out the window, doesn't it? Perhaps He just randomly decided to send Christ, since He didn't know the future and this seemed like his best bet? Christ couldn't have been planned, how could he? God didn't know what people would choose. What about the prophecies in Revalation? Are those good guesses by God? Come on, nothing could further from the truth of what scripture says.
I understand the idea that God creating people that he allows to go to Hell is difficult, but lets not try to dance around it by twisting what scripture so clearly says: God knew every single person he created, their choices, destination and all, before the foundations of this world were created.

 

[DrLao]

Originally posted by Blessed-one
we know that God knows everything, but at the same time, He doesn't, as it is our choice, meaning He doesn't know till we've made our choices.
s0uljah would be able to explain it better, his idea even baffles me,

How can you believe he explains it better if you don't understand him? I don't understand what he is saying either.

if there was a way out of a desperate situation, even though it's a really hard way that's going to take a vast amount of energy and time. would you do it?

Yeah, in real life. But Christianity isn't like real life. According to Christianity, you can try as hard as you like to be a good person, you still go to hell.

 

[cb]

Originally posted by Blessed-one
we know that God knows everything, but at the same time, He doesn't, as it is our choice, meaning He doesn't know till we've made our choices.
s0uljah would be able to explain it better, his idea even baffles me,

Like I pointed out in my post above, be careful of the idea that "God doesn't know". Scripture is clear: God knows all.

if there was a way out of a desperate situation, even though it's a really hard way that's going to take a vast amount of energy and time. would you do it?

The entire Idea of the Gospel is that man is hopelessly sinful, regardless of how hard they try. Christ is the solution, and only by being "born again" with the holy spirit living in you, can you be able to have any power over sin. regardless, it is not by your own power, but by God's. This is called Grace. So, it doesn't matter how hard you TRY not to be sinful, you can't help it. Struggling to be perfect will only emphasise how weak you are. Do you know anything about the russian author leo tolstoy? read about his life, its a perfect example of someone who tried to lead a perfectly pious life, and it actually drove him insane.

 

[DrLao]

Originally posted by s0uljah
Wrong. God creates everything "good." We sin through OUR OWN FAULTS.

Can you get to heaven without Jesus? If not, why not?

No, you are still thinking in terms of linear time. Besides, even if He knews the future, that doesn't mean that He caused the future. Thats the dynamic nature of free-will.

He created it, He knows what's going to happen. To me that equals "cause." In fact, that is sort of the definition of "cause."

 

[cb]

Originally posted by DrLao



How can you believe he explains it better if you don't understand him? I don't understand what he is saying either.

I was wondering the same thing myself

 

[cb]

Originally posted by DrLao



Can you get to heaven without Jesus? If not, why not?

No. Because the sheep were becoming extinict.

He created it, He knows what's going to happen. To me that equals "cause." In fact, that is sort of the definition of "cause." [/B]

He allowed it to happen. He never says "I am choosing your life for you". He's allowed your choice to be your choice before you even knew it was your choice.

 

[cb]

Look at me, I am now a "Member". Doc, you'll be a member within one post.

 

[DrLao]

Originally posted by cb
He allowed it to happen. He never says "I am choosing your life for you". He's allowed your choice to be your choice before you even knew it was your choice.

But He created my choice and my decision. And when He did, He knew what it was going to be. And, presumably, He did not need to create my decision the way He did. He could have created me making the opposite decision.

 

[cb]

Originally posted by DrLao




But He created my choice and my decision. And when He did, He knew what it was going to be. And, presumably, He did not need to create my decision the way He did. He could have created me making the opposite decision.

He created us, not our choice or our decision.

There is a vast difference between saying: "I am creating a person that must reject me." and "I am creating a person who will choose to reject me, so let it be."

He couldn't create you making the opposite decision, because then you wouldn't be you, would you?

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Originally posted by DrLao

Can you get to heaven without Jesus? If not, why not?

Yep, its possible. Of course, this applies to someone that doesn't know about Jesus, or doesn't willfully reject Him.

A loving God isn't going to send someone to Hell that didn't know any better.

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Originally posted by cb
I do not know of a single scholar, liberal or evangelical, that believes in a God that is constricted by time, and does not know the future, much less the entire course of a person's life.

cb you don't understand my point at all.

Who is saying that God is contrained?

My point is that we are constrained by the way we think of linear time.

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Here...

"Time is a function of space, as Einstein demonstrated to us. Without space, there is no time. God is outside of time, since He made space, and is the Eternal. Therefore, the whole question, did God have (pre)knowledge of whom would go to Hell is actually illogical, since the (pre) has to do with linear time, which doesn't exist, except from our perspective.

Of course, I wonder, is that answer limiting God? Saying that He couldn't see the future seems limiting at first, but since He lives in an eternal "Now," then there is no (pre). He can see the future only in terms of there being a future, ie, inside our universe, which He can certainly predict"

 

[cb]

If God lives in eternal now, How is it possible that He was able to reveal the future to his prophets? If he lives in eternal now, does that mean he is "surprised" by the choices we make, and must adjust accordingly?

 

[DrLao]

Originally posted by cb
There is a vast difference between saying: "I am creating a person that must reject me." and "I am creating a person who will choose to reject me, so let it be."

I really don't see a difference.

He couldn't create you making the opposite decision, because then you wouldn't be you, would you?

No, but who says I need to be me? I am not the standard, God is. I am whoever God makes me to be.

 

[DrLao]

Originally posted by s0uljah
Yep, its possible. Of course, this applies to someone that doesn't know about Jesus, or doesn't willfully reject Him.

A loving God isn't going to send someone to Hell that didn't know any better.

What is the scriptural basis for this claim?

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Originally posted by cb
If God lives in eternal now, How is it possible that He was able to reveal the future to his prophets? If he lives in eternal now, does that mean he is "surprised" by the choices we make, and must adjust accordingly?

Because God exists independently of the Universe. Think of it like this...all past, present, future is one big timeline that God can see.

He is not suprised by anything.

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Originally posted by DrLao



What is the scriptural basis for this claim?

I could look it up for you, but it exists on these forums already. Been there, done that with atheists before. I'm not willing to spend the time right now...its there, search for it.

 

[cb]

Originally posted by DrLao



I really don't see a difference.

It has to do with the difference between force and choice. does God force me to make the choices that i will? no. does he allow me to make the choices? yes.

No, but who says I need to be me? I am not the standard, God is. I am whoever God makes me to be.

That isn't what scripture says. You choose who you will be by whom you follow and the decisions you make thru-out your life. God doesn't write the story, we do. He simply lets us write our own story. YOu are writing your story, as I am, everyday.
I don't fully (and any who says they do is full of bunk) understand the logistics of this. I do know the bible says that God is sovereign and that we are responsible for the choices we make in life.

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

"You choose who you will be by whom you follow and the decisions you make thru-out your life. God doesn't write the story, we do. He simply lets us write our own story. YOu are writing your story, as I am, everyday. "

Right.

 

[cb]

You haven't answered my question, Souljah, please see above.