Does God invoke FEAR in anyone anymore?

koer · Nov 29, 2006

i love wine! JESUS BLOOD FOR ALL!

RonnyRulz · Nov 29, 2006

JacobHall86 said:
Yea except we still sin, and in that state of sin, Gods presence will destroy you.

Where in the Bible does it say that if your in a state of sin, God's presence will destroy you?

Was God not walking in Eden, with Adam and Eve AFTER they sinned? That's two people who were in a state of sin, but God was right there talking to them, walking in the same garden, and seeing them. God kicked them out of Eden, yes, but He was with them standing there in their presence when He did so. They weren't destroyed, they were kicked out.

Where does the Bible say God's Presence will destroy you?

intricatic · Nov 29, 2006

RonnyRulz said:
To reach the point where you have the faith to see, you have to have the faith when you don't see.

The Bible talks about people who see God first, and then accept Him and have faith.
Then the others are those who do not see God first, but accept Him and have a stronger faith.

I accepted God when I could not and had not seen Him. This is greater faith than those who see God first and then are saved.

Seeing God after you have the faith to believe when you don't see Him doesn't decrease your faith.
All faith comes from God anyways, so God gives to each what He desires. God gives faith, man does not have anything good on his own. All good is God alone.

I agree, all faith does come from God. It's not selective, secretive knowledge that's imparted on a believer, though. That's what this sounds like to me, anyhow. I may be mistaken...

But what possible reason would anyone be granted the gift of seeing God face to face? This would disrupt the harmony between free will and God's sovereignty, imho. I should imagine this to be the reason why those who have not seen, yet believe, are counted as having more faith than those who have seen.

savedandhappy1 · Nov 29, 2006

I would completely disagree. For the sole fact you think my relationship with Him is weird, I don't understand how you could have a wonderful and personal one. If you knew God personally, I would be no stranger to you, but you would fully understand. Don't deceive yourself, you may know of God, but if you never say to Him, "Hi, how are you today?" then you do not know Him.

You would be no stranger to me? You aren't God and you are His precious Son, Jesus, nor are you the Holy Ghost. I don't have to know you to know them, you put yourself way to high. I believe there is a scriptures that tell us about those that do that.

RonnyRulz said:
Covered in the blood, dying to the flesh, living in the Spirit. Face to Face with God.

Talk about adding something to the scriptures that isn't there. You don't think it says, in the scriptures you must be saved "while on earth", but you think it says you will see Him face to face, "while on earth"?

savedandhappy1 · Nov 29, 2006

RonnyRulz said:
...............................................

RonnyRulz said:
It can't be put in any more of a simple way. I even defined to you what the meaning/definition of "word" and "noun" is. And you still don't get it?

Proverbs 8:13

13The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.

Gal 6:3

3For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.

Eph 4:13-17

13Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

14That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

15But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

16From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love. 17This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,

1 Tim. 6:3-5

3If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;

4He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,

5Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

James 4:5-7

5Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?

6But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble. 7Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

I guess Christ isn't the way I understood Him from the Word.

RonnyRulz · Nov 29, 2006

It's not selective, secretive knowledge that's imparted on a believer, though. That's what this sounds like to me, anyhow. I may be mistaken...

No no no, it's not secret. It's available for ANYONE. All they have to do is ask. Ask and seek and you'll find. It's no secret God wants to know us as a Person. God makes it clear He wants us all to Himself because He loves us so much. He wants not just to be our God, but to be our Best Friend, our Lover, our Friend.

Jesus even said, John 15:15
I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master's business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you.

No secret knowledge. It's a narrow path because not many want to know God for Himself (a lot seem to be afraid because God is God (THE God) and don't see Him as a personal friend or intimate lover as much as a Powerful God Above all gods.

But what possible reason would anyone be granted the gift of seeing God face to face?

God wants us. Wants all of us. He wants us intimately. He wants us and He wants us to know Him intimately. The possible reason is LOVE. A desire from God to have us intimately. A desire from God for us to have Him intimately. To know Him inside and out. To be closer than a brother, closer than just a friend.

You would be no stranger to me? You aren't God and you are His precious Son, Jesus, nor are you the Holy Ghost. I don't have to know you to know them, you put yourself way to high. I believe there is a scriptures that tell us about those that do that.

What the heck are you talking about? I said I know God, not that I am God. What are you reading? It's obviously not my post, because I never said such ridiculous things. I'm not God, nor am I close to His perfection. I'm just a sinner who is under the Blood of Christ and best friends with God. I honestly have no idea where you get this idea from. Out of thin air? It wasn't from what I said.
I wouldn't be strange or weird to you if you knew God casually. Strange. Stranger. Same word. That's what that means. I don't understand how you can take "I would be no stranger" (as in, I wouldn't be strange/weird) and translate it into "I am God Himself.)

so your rude and snide remarks are because you
are so much closer to God than us?

....what are you talking about? That post wasn't even to you. It wasn't even about being close to God either.
That post was talking about "God is Love."
Besides, I never claim to be perfect anyways. I'm a sinner, and I admit it loudly.
I neither claim to be incredibly close to God. I am just close to God. He is my life, my lover, my best friend, my only true friend. I am close to God, but I can be A LOT closer.

You are confusing being close to God with being perfectly close to God, or being God Himself. Please, keep your assumptions and wild accusations (which come out of thin air, not even related to what I say) down please. I have no idea where you are getting all of this, but wherever, uh, I dunno? Don't? lol

I'm a sinner, but thankfully, I have the blood of Christ. There's Power in the Blood. Power of Friendship. Closeness. Intimacy with God.

RonnyRulz · Nov 29, 2006

But what possible reason would anyone be granted the gift of seeing God face to face?

Romans 8:32
He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things?

RonnyRulz · Nov 29, 2006

In fact, I'm not just a sinner, but also a moron. I'm stupid.

God Himself told me "If they don't know me, all explanations will fall on unresponsive hearts."

As in I can't explain it to people who don't understand. Yet I'm trying anyways. God gives me wisdom and I ignore it like I know better, LOL. Talk about pride and stupidity.

So yea, I don't even claim to be perfect, in fact, I'm not just a sinner, but a moron too, LOL.

I just want people to have a relationship with God, and a close friendship intimacy one at that. Is it really so bad of me to desire something good for others?

savedandhappy1 · Nov 29, 2006

RonnyRulz said:
If you knew God personally, I would be no stranger to you, but you would fully understand.

There is what you said.

RonnyRulz said:
....what are you talking about? That post wasn't even to you. It wasn't even about being close to God either.
That post was talking about "God is Love."

So giving someone a link to a dictionary and saying they don't know english isn't being rude to you?

So saying how sad it is that we all know of God, but don't know Him, because we don't know Him the way you do, isn't arrogant to you?

savedandhappy1 · Nov 29, 2006

RonnyRulz said:
In fact, I'm not just a sinner, but also a moron. I'm stupid.

RonnyRulz said:
God Himself told me "If they don't know me, all explanations will fall on unresponsive hearts."

As in I can't explain it to people who don't understand. Yet I'm trying anyways. God gives me wisdom and I ignore it like I know better, LOL. Talk about pride and stupidity.

So yea, I don't even claim to be perfect, in fact, I'm not just a sinner, but a moron too, LOL.

I just want people to have a relationship with God, and a close friendship intimacy one at that. Is it really so bad of me to desire something good for others?

I will try tho.

Lets see, I am so close to God that He personnally told me that no one else will understand what I'm saying because they aren't.

I see know reason to continue this....... well I really don't even know what to call it.

Prayers going up!!

chris777 · Nov 30, 2006

Ceridwen said:
In the thread title, you are mis-using the work "invoke." Invoke means "to petition for assistance." The word you meant to use is "evoke." Evoke means "to elicit or draw forth."

Please, this misuse of the English language by someone who is a native speaker evokes (not invokes) a great deal of fear in me that our educational system is broken.

I would say that broken is misused in reference to our education system, "fiery train wreck off of a cliff into a ravine" would be far more appropriate

Blank123 · Nov 30, 2006

In fact, I'm not just a sinner, but also a moron. I'm stupid.

God Himself told me "If they don't know me, all explanations will fall on unresponsive hearts."

As in I can't explain it to people who don't understand. Yet I'm trying anyways. God gives me wisdom and I ignore it like I know better, LOL. Talk about pride and stupidity.

So yea, I don't even claim to be perfect, in fact, I'm not just a sinner, but a moron too, LOL.

I just want people to have a relationship with God, and a close friendship intimacy one at that. Is it really so bad of me to desire something good for others?

you desire that we all have a relationship with God that lacks any kind of Biblical model or teaching? And you desire that we should listen to you to find that relationship over all wisdom God has imparted to us with his word and real teachers/pastors He has placed in our lives? That sounds very suspicious to me.

Sorry but i'm not buying it just because you say God appears to you and says something. I believe Joseph Smith and Sun Myung Moon also tried that approach and i didn't believe it with them either. Show us actual Biblical exposition backing your point and you might have a shot at getting through to someone, but if all you've got to offer is subjective, unverifiable teahing than you're not gonna get very far.

chris777 · Nov 30, 2006

I am going to ask again for the 4th or 5th time, if you could please address the inconsistency of the one verse you repeatedly quote, in comparison to the other verses, that Several of us have posted as well.
I understand your view of that one single verse, but I do not understand your basically ignoring the other verses all together, as well as the inquiries as to what you think of them.

Matt 10:28
28] And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
luke 12:
[4] And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.
[5] But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.
What word would you replace fear with in these 2 verses?

And what of the following verses

what would be a more appropriate word than terror in
in the following verses
2 Cor 5:
[9] Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
[10] For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
[11] Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.
[12] For we commend not ourselves again unto you, but give you occasion to glory on our behalf, that ye may have somewhat to answer them which glory in appearance, and not in heart.
[13] For whether we be beside ourselves, it is to God: or whether we be sober, it is for your cause.
[14] For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

and Rom 11 offers more food for thought
13] For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
[14] If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
[15] For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
[16] For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
[17] And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
[18] Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
[19] Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
[20] Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
[21] For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
[22] Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
[23] And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
[24] For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

More examples
Phil 2:
[12] Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Heb 10:
[26] For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
[27] But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
[28] He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
[29] Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
[30] For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
[31] It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Heb 12:
[23] To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
[24] And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
[25] See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:
[26] Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.
[27] And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.
[28] Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
[29] For our God is a consuming fire.

I wasn't making an assumption, I really was asking a question, particularly in regards to how You perceive
the following verses from the gospels, and how you reconcile them
With the vereses youve quoted.
Matt 10:28
28] And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Luke 12:
[4] And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.
[5] But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

That was why I even asked Because the replies were somewhat ambiguous from several, not just you.

Quote:
God is more like a cuddly teddy bear than anything else. That's an amazing description of Him.
If you disagree, you have a lot to learn about God.
He is the best cuddly teddy bear!!!
Question, and again it isnt an accusatory, but more of a puzzlement.
what do you think of all of the old testament views, of God, and his Judgements on israel, and the hebrews?
Love is an aspect, of God, A very important one, probably the most important one, But it is not the only aspect.
We will all be Judged, and many who deny him, Shall not enter the kingdom of heaven.

To remove all aspects of God save one is diminishing from all the other scriptures that describe God. I have little doubt that his love for us exceeds most if not all the other aspects of God, but it does not eliminate them.

Can you possibly elaborate more, as to clarify, your view.
I dont really want to start quoting verses, yet, because I am unclear on your position, and It is not my aim, to insult, and cause strife, but rather as I have stated in my other post.

There are TONS of scripture throughout the OT and NT where we are told to fear God. Believers are not to be scared of God but we must have a reverant fear of the Lord as stated in scripture.

Luk 1:49 For the Mighty One has done great things for me; and holy is His name.
Luk 1:50 And His mercy is on those who fear Him from generation to generation.

Luk 12:4 And I say to you, My friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.
Luk 12:5 But I will warn you of whom you shall fear: Fear Him who, after He has killed, has authority to cast into hell. Yea, I say to you, fear Him.

Act 9:31 Then, indeed, the churches had rest throughout all Judea and Galilee and Samaria, and having been built up. And having gone on in the fear of the Lord and in the comfort of the Holy Spirit, they were increased.

1Pe 2:17 Honor all. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king.

Eccl 3:14 I know that everything God does will remain forever; there is nothing to add to it and there is nothing to take from it, for God has so worked that men should fear Him.

Apparently here God wants men to fear Him.

Eccl 5:7 For in many dreams and in many words there is emptiness. Rather, fear God.

Again we're told to fear God.

Eccl 8:12-13 Although a sinner does evil a hundred times and may lengthen his life, still I know that it will be well for those who fear God, who fear Him openly But it will not be well for the evil man and he will not lengthen his days like a shadow, because he does not fear God.

Here we are told that it will go well for those who fear Him and not for those who don't. Why would this be if we're supposedly not to fear God? Not only that but ...

Eccle 12:!3 The conclusion, when all has been heard, is: fear God and keep His commandments, because this applies to every person.

Apparently here the command to fear God applied to everyone period ...

Jer 5:24 'They do not say in their heart,"Let us now fear the LORD our God,Who gives rain in its season,Both the autumn rain and the spring rain,Who keeps for usThe appointed weeks of the harvest."

Funny, again we're being told to fear Him ...

2 Chron 9:19 Then he charged them saying, "Thus you shall do in the fear of the LORD, faithfully and wholeheartedly.

Job 28:28 "And to man He said, 'Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom;And to depart from evil is understanding.'"

The fear of the Lord is wisdom supposedly ...

Ps 19:9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring forever;The judgments of the LORD are true; they are righteous altogether.

... it is also described as being 'clean' to a Jew ...

Ps 111:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom;A good understanding have all those who do His commandments;His praise endures forever

... it is once again, the begining of wisdom ...

Ps 128:1 How blessed is everyone who fears the LORD,Who walks in His ways.

... and those who fear Him are supposedly blessed ...

Prov 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge;Fools despise wisdom and instruction.

... it is the begining of knowledge ...

Prov 1:28-29 28"Then they will call on me, but I will not answer;
They will seek me diligently but they will not find me,
29Because they hated knowledge
And did not choose the fear of the LORD

... God will not answer because they reject the fear of the Lord ...

Prov 9:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom,And the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.

... it is again the begining of wisdom, a very recurrent theme as we are seeing ...

Prov 10:27 The fear of the LORD prolongs life,But the years of the wicked will be shortened.

... it prolongs one's life ...

Prov 14:27 The fear of the LORD is a fountain of life,That one may avoid the snares of death.

... it is a fountain of life ...

Prov 19:23 The fear of the LORD leads to life,So that one may sleep satisfied, untouched by evil.

... again it leads to life, keeping us untouched by evil ...

Prov 23:17 Do not let your heart envy sinners,But live in the fear of the LORD always

... we are told to always live in the fear of the Lord. Now what was that you were saying about we should not fear God? The fear of God is one of the major themes of Scripture, and without a healthy reverance towards and fear of God we get off-track very quickly. Not only is the fear of God Biblical, it is a very important ingredient in a healthy Christian life.

I am going to stop listing scriptures here, as I dont want the post to have so many verses its overwhelming, I just want to know how you view those other verses, particularly the one from jesus about fearing God, as he ca ncast both body and soul into hell.
I really am trying to understand, but feel you are avoiding our questions and either don't care, or feel this is a game or something

Nadiine · Nov 30, 2006

JacobHall86 said:
Im still trying to figure out how someone can see God Person to Person without it being the second coming.

Or Face to Face, since Moses wasnt even righteous enough to see it without being destroyed by His presence.

So this was literally 'face to face' with God w/ Ronny?

Um, speaking of Moses... Ex. 3:5-6 And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest [is] holy ground.
Moreover he said, I [am] the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God
(Moses was told not to come near God - much different than friendly secret handshakes)

I hate to say it, but 'a man in a white suit who does healings' was claiming that Jesus was making 'personal appearances' at his meetings -

Mt. 24:22-27
And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here [is] Christ, or there; believe [it] not.
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Behold, I have told you before.
Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, [he is] in the secret chambers; believe [it] not.
For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

The way Jesus left is the way He'll return. He isn't making private guest appearances to "select" Christians. He would have told us so if He were.

I don't know what you're doing this 'friendly handshake' with.... but I'd quickly flip my bible pages to 1 John 4:1 & see how to TEST THE SPIRITS whether they be of God & do a thorough examination

holo · Nov 30, 2006

intricatic said:
So there's no thanks and quiet awe in the fact that God's wrath burned against you just as it burns against sinners everywhere, no numinous reverence or trembling before the God that created the entire universe, and yet died to individually save you from a destiny that you most certainly deserve just as much as any other sinner?

Or is that not fear?

God's wrath may burn against sin, that's why he made Jesus to be sin on the cross and laid the punishment on him. In other words, there's simply nothing left for God to punish. Christ has died once and for all. God isn't going to punish you for something Christ has already suffered for.

Nadiine · Nov 30, 2006

holo said:
God's wrath may burn against sin, that's why he made Jesus to be sin on the cross and laid the punishment on him. In other words, there's simply nothing left for God to punish. Christ has died once and for all. God isn't going to punish you for something Christ has already suffered for.

For a Genuine Christian, your'e right holo. However, we are still judged on our works, and we do risk LOSS OF REWARD if our works are burned up.

1 Cor 3:13-17
13 each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work.

14 If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward.
15 If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

16 Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?

17 If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are.

We will all give account to God (face to face) for all our works & motives.
I don't know about you, but that does put some fear in me, I don't want to lose reward, yet I know I sin & do things with wrong motives.

I don't envision judgment day to be a fun picnic in the park.

intricatic · Nov 30, 2006

holo said:
God's wrath may burn against sin, that's why he made Jesus to be sin on the cross and laid the punishment on him. In other words, there's simply nothing left for God to punish. Christ has died once and for all. God isn't going to punish you for something Christ has already suffered for.

That's where faith comes in to play, though. Without the cloak of Christ to hold an individual protected from that Righteous Wrath, which not all people have had the blessing of being under their entire lives, the gift is surreal and bordering numinous. The sacrifice that was made so that some may be saved from the wrath of a righteous Lord isn't something to be taken for granted. Fear is simply a respect and awe for the length God has gone through to reconcile us, and the fact that by His grace we're saved from blindly staggering in the darkness of despair and punishment that each person individually deserves.

7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. 8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. 9 Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness. 10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up. 11 Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge. 12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?
(James 4:7-12, KJV)

Forgetting this is just the same as to place ourselves above the Law, which we most certainly are not, though we may be reconciled to, and no longer bound under the Law by the gift of faith. Fear is a symbol of the humble nature of Christ - not fear in the sense of terror, or the anticipation of immanent doom from above. It's awe in the knowledge that we're safe from punishment, though chastisement comes to teach and temper us, it's not to destroy us and it isn't permanent.

20 For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God. 21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: 22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: 23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously: 24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. 25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.
(1 Peter 2:20-25, KJV)

holo · Nov 30, 2006

Nadiine said:
For a Genuine Christian, your'e right holo. However, we are still judged on our works, and we do risk LOSS OF REWARD if our works are burned up.

Yes. But contrary to common christian belief, I don't think it's like our bad works will burn up and our good works will stand. Rather, it's about our works versus God's works.

Paul talks about works that the Lord has prepared beforehand, that we may walk in them - in other words, they are gifts from God, not services for him.

holo · Nov 30, 2006

intricatic said:
The sacrifice that was made so that some may be saved from the wrath of a righteous Lord isn't something to be taken for granted.

But is is granted!

intricatic said:
Fear is simply a respect and awe for the length God has gone through to reconcile us, and the fact that by His grace we're saved from blindly staggering in the darkness of despair and punishment that each person individually deserves.

If so, then yes, I do fear God

intricatic said:
Forgetting this is just the same as to place ourselves above the Law

Well, being above the law is certainly better than being under it

In any case, we're dead to the law and as if that wasn't enough, Jesus has a much higher standard anyway.

intricatic · Nov 30, 2006

holo said:
But is is granted!

If so, then yes, I do fear God

Well, being above the law is certainly better than being under it

In any case, we're dead to the law and as if that wasn't enough, Jesus has a much higher standard anyway.

None are above the Law, we can only be either against or under it, but never above.

I agree, but I do believe that Christ's standard is the same standard as the Law, only the Law itself is shed away to reveal the reality it held in Christ.

Does God invoke FEAR in anyone anymore?

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