Does God invoke FEAR in anyone anymore?

chris777 said:

What is your view of the bible itself ?
Do you believe it is gods word?

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I believe so, yes.

part of it is gods word, but some is not?

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I believe all of it is, and there's no contradictions. (i.e. when the Bible says "fear God" and then "There is no fear in God" it's not a contradiction, but two completely different definitions/meanings for 'fear'. (The former being respect, but not fear. If you were to actually fear fear God, being scared, the Bible would be a contradiction because there is no fear/scared about God, just reverance.)

or do you have a different view altogether?

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No, not really.

And how do you view other religions?

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In my opinion all other religions (or lack of in atheism's case) is man worshipping- man's ideas, dead gods [idols that aren't living], or demons claiming to be god.

And their text?

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Written by men and/or demons. The only true and holy book is that which was written by the One True God, which is the Bible- the one with Jesus Christ.

Thanks for what youve shared

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np

As a fan of scripture myself, perfect love casts our fear, so unless its awe and reverence I think it would be a sin to be afraid of God.

Machachachi said:

As a fan of scripture myself, perfect love casts our fear, so unless its awe and reverence I think it would be a sin to be afraid of God.

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Fear is a natural human emotion - it happens automatically - it's what actually gets adrenaline flowing which is a guard for us in times of trauma.

I wouldn't call 'fear" sin in & of itself! We can let fear CONTROL US tho, and that I think is when it can turn to sin; just like how anger isnt' sin, but letting it turn to bitterness IS.

Many encounters in the Bible where there's a visition/vision by God or angels, they fall down & worship & have fear.
So if fear is your standard of 'sin', then I guess they sinned to.?

(also the different Greek words for fear is another key that i won't repeat again in this post).

Nadiine said:

Interestingly, many if not most of your posts are just that, "contrary to Christian belief"..?

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I hope so!

One popular christian belief, for example, is that God is going to treat us more harshly now that we are his children than back when we were sinners and his enemies and far away. So many people have been drawn to the church by the whole "it's not religion, it's a relationship, it's not about works, it's all grace, he died for you blah blah" just to find out that once saved, the rules change and it's not grace anymore, it's not relationship, but rather a plethora of written and unwritten rules.

I have seen too many people struggle, get depressed, reject God and even committing suicide because of this tragically misinformed version of the gospel. The gospel, which is supposed to be the very power that sets them free, instead became a legalistic bondage they couldn't bear. That's why I've decided to fight it until I die.

holo said:

I hope so!

One popular christian belief, for example, is that God is going to treat us more harshly now that we are his children than back when we were sinners and his enemies and far away. So many people have been drawn to the church by the whole "it's not religion, it's a relationship, it's not about works, it's all grace, he died for you blah blah" just to find out that once saved, the rules change and it's not grace anymore, it's not relationship, but rather a plethora of written and unwritten rules.

I have seen too many people struggle, get depressed, reject God and even committing suicide because of this tragically misinformed version of the gospel. The gospel, which is supposed to be the very power that sets them free, instead became a legalistic bondage they couldn't bear. That's why I've decided to fight it until I die.

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In my opinion, I think your posts show some sort of a phobia about having any negative or bad feelings whatsoever - as if it's "BAD".
Maybe that's a byproduct of the way things are in your country? I know America's PC frenzy is fighting to keep anyone from feeling anything bad about themselves.
It's almost fanatical.
We should have negative & bad feelings about things; it keeps us spiritually healthy & in check (morally).

You can call it "struggling" & depression - but it's SIN that leads us to depression - (or hormonal imbalances).

God's conviction doesn't lead to depression, Satan's does. And we SHOULD struggle if we're in sin - trying to make 'bad feelings & guilt' go away when we ARE doing wrong things is how God works in us to get us to change. I don't avoid that either.

Call it what you want, but having a fear of 'feeling down' can bring on all sorts of problems for us.

Lastly, you don't really KNOW How God is going to treat you at judgment - when you read Mat 7:21-23, MANY who thought they knew Jesus, really didn't at all. That's sobering!

Nadiine said:

In my opinion, I think your posts show some sort of a phobia about having any negative or bad feelings whatsoever - as if it's "BAD".
Maybe that's a byproduct of the way things are in your country? I know America's PC frenzy is fighting to keep anyone from feeling anything bad about themselves.
It's almost fanatical.
We should have negative & bad feelings about things; it keeps us spiritually healthy & in check (morally).

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I DO feel bad about things. Especially legalism! I'm also often disappointed with myself. But I know God isn't. God likes me. And you

Nadiine said:

You can call it "struggling" & depression - but it's SIN that leads us to depression

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Yes, among others the sin of legalism and judgmentality. It did lead me into depression anyway.

Nadiine said:

God's conviction doesn't lead to depression, Satan's does. And we SHOULD struggle if we're in sin

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Struggling will never free you from sin. Only Jesus will. Only Jesus.

Romans 8:3
For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man

Nadiine said:

Call it what you want, but having a fear of 'feeling down' can bring on all sorts of problems for us.

Lastly, you don't really KNOW How God is going to treat you at judgment - when you read Mat 7:21-23, MANY who thought they knew Jesus, really didn't at all. That's sobering!

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It's sobering to people who think they can show to all kinds of signs and wonders and even exorcisms, I guess. I can't. I can only point to Jesus.

And I know Jesus is enough. He said so himself, he said "I am the way and the life..."

And that's what people need to hear. The legalistic version of the gospel, where Jesus does 90% and you do the rest, has to stop. It doesn't work, it never sets anyone free.

is it legalistic to apply your faith to your life so your life glorifies and points to God and not self? Christians are exhoted to live holy lives because we're witness to a holy God, i can't think of anything that makes more sense than that and i cannot see that as legalism.

what is better? To know the truth and apply it to your life so you become a living, breathing, and walking testimony to what Christ accomplished on the Christ or to know the truth and deny its power and continue to live our lives the way we did before we came to Christ. I can't see how a holy and just God can tolerate such a thing.

The Jewish and Biblical definition of faith is faithfulness if someone is unwilling to show their faith by living a life of faithful to God and nonconformity to the world, how can they claim to have faith?

14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. - James 2:14-26

26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The LORD will judge His people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
32 But recall the former days in which, after you were illuminated, you endured a great struggle with sufferings: 33 partly while you were made a spectacle both by reproaches and tribulations, and partly while you became companions of those who were so treated; 34 for you had compassion on me in my chains, and joyfully accepted the plundering of your goods, knowing that you have a better and an enduring possession for yourselves in heaven. 35 Therefore do not cast away your confidence, which has great reward. 36 For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise:
37 “ For yet a little while,
And He who is coming will come and will not tarry.
38 Now the just shall live by faith;
But if anyone draws back,
My soul has no pleasure in him.”
39 But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul. - Hebrews 10:26-39

1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God. - Romans 12:1-2

thats not say we're expected to live a perfect and sinless life, otherwise we'd have no use for Christ at all or scriptures like 1 John 1:8-10, but we are expected to live holy lives as the above verses show.

holo said:

I DO feel bad about things. Especially legalism! I'm also often disappointed with myself. But I know God isn't. God likes me. And you

Yes, among others the sin of legalism and judgmentality. It did lead me into depression anyway.

Struggling will never free you from sin. Only Jesus will. Only Jesus.

Romans 8:3
For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man

It's sobering to people who think they can show to all kinds of signs and wonders and even exorcisms, I guess. I can't. I can only point to Jesus.

And I know Jesus is enough. He said so himself, he said "I am the way and the life..."

And that's what people need to hear. The legalistic version of the gospel, where Jesus does 90% and you do the rest, has to stop. It doesn't work, it never sets anyone free.

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I see we're back to Semantics again with your "law" misdefinition & the legalism you seem to think I hold...

Mat. 7:21-23 Jesus is keeping out people who THOUGHT they were His because of their "practice/work of iniquity/sin/lawlessness".
The bible is clear that moral laws still stand, found in 1 Cor 6:9-11, 1 tim 1:8-11, Galations 5 & Eph. 4,5 & 6.
If you have a problem with that, then please take it to the Lord.

Call it whatever you'de like, but you need to learn what law you're under in the NT (law of Christ = LOVE which fulfills the laws of the OT) & what the NT means by it.
I'm done w/ that.

little_tigress said:

is it legalistic to apply your faith to your life so your life glorifies and points to God and not self? Christians are exhoted to live holy lives because we're witness to a holy God, i can't think of anything that makes more sense than that and i cannot see that as legalism.

what is better? To know the truth and apply it to your life so you become a living, breathing, and walking testimony to what Christ accomplished on the Christ or to know the truth and deny its power and continue to live our lives the way we did before we came to Christ. I can't see how a holy and just God can tolerate such a thing.

The Jewish and Biblical definition of faith is faithfulness if someone is unwilling to show their faith by living a life of faithful to God and nonconformity to the world, how can they claim to have faith?

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I'm not knocking holiness or anything like that, I'm pointing out an important difference;

Doing something good because you want to, or because you're supposed/have to.

Nadiine said:

I see we're back to Semantics again with your "law" misdefinition & the legalism you seem to think I hold...

Mat. 7:21-23 Jesus is keeping out people who THOUGHT they were His because of their "practice/work of iniquity/sin/lawlessness".
The bible is clear that moral laws still stand, found in 1 Cor 6:9-11, 1 tim 1:8-11, Galations 5 & Eph. 4,5 & 6.
If you have a problem with that, then please take it to the Lord.

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We agree that there is morality, but we don't agree that it's there in the form of a law.

The thing is, our righteousness has nothing to do with the law. We don't love because of the law, we love because he loved us first. Agree?

If I have love, what use do I have for the law? It's an honest question. What am I to use the law for? Because as long as you say we're under law, that means we HAVE to DO this or that, either in order to BE christians, or in order to be GOOD christians. The problem is that you, however good-intended, are preaching a gospel where salvation isn't from Christ alone, but some sort of joint operation - that Jesus helps me out and I help Jesus out. Isn't that true?

I'm not knocking holiness or anything like that, I'm pointing out an important difference;

Doing something good because you want to, or because you're supposed/have to.

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the two don't have to be exclusive of one another. We're commanded to love God with all our hearts and all our souls. If we truly love Him as He commanded, wouldn't it only follow that we'd want to live according to the standards He requires of us, such as I listed above?

little_tigress said:

the two don't have to be exclusive of one another. We're commanded to love God with all our hearts and all our souls. If we truly love Him as He commanded, wouldn't it only follow that we'd want to live according to the standards He requires of us, such as I listed above?

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Actually, I don't think so. Most christians seem to struggle with wanting to do the exact opposite - they don't WANT to forgive, for example, but they know they're supposed to, and they're sort of scared God will reject them if they don't.

The only way to love is to be loved first.

None of the good things I do come about because I have to or "ought" to, but because I want to. I don't help my GF mum with the dishes because she's instructed or commanded me to do so, I only do it because I love her. See? Besides, God isn't so preoccupied about us living according to standards. He wants, more than anything else, for us to be free and happy. God didn't create you so that you may live up to something, he created you so that you may simply live

Actually, I don't think so. Most christians seem to struggle with wanting to do the exact opposite - they don't WANT to forgive, for example, but they know they're supposed to, and they're sort of scared God will reject them if they don't.

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and they have a point...


21 Then Peter came to Him and said, "Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?"
22 Jesus said to him, "I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven Therefore the kingdom of heaven is like a certain king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. 24 And when he had begun to settle accounts, one was brought to him who owed him ten thousand talents. 25 But as he was not able to pay, his master commanded that he be sold, with his wife and children and all that he had, and that payment be made. 26 The servant therefore fell down before him, saying, 'Master, have patience with me, and I will pay you all.' 27 Then the master of that servant was moved with compassion, released him, and forgave him the debt.
28 "But that servant went out and found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii; and he laid hands on him and took him by the throat, saying, 'Pay me what you owe!' 29 So his fellow servant fell down at his feet and begged him, saying, 'Have patience with me, and I will pay you all.' 30 And he would not, but went and threw him into prison till he should pay the debt. 31 So when his fellow servants saw what had been done, they were very grieved, and came and told their master all that had been done. 32 Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, 'You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me. 33 Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?' 34 And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him.
35 "So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses." - Matthew 18:21-35

25 "And whenever you stand praying, if you have anything against anyone, forgive him, that your Father in heaven may also forgive you your trespasses. 26 But if you do not forgive, neither will your Father in heaven forgive your trespasses." - Mark 11:25-26

forgiving is part of loving and as the Bible says if we don't love our brothers we cannot possibly love the Lord

20 If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? 21 And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also. - 1 John 4:20

The only way to love is to be loved first.

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which they were

little_tigress said:

the two don't have to be exclusive of one another. We're commanded to love God with all our hearts and all our souls. If we truly love Him as He commanded, wouldn't it only follow that we'd want to live according to the standards He requires of us, such as I listed above?

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EXACTLY The 2 are BOTH TRUE. Love of God IS obeying becuz we want to, we WANT TO becuz that is what the Lord REQUIRES OF US once we are reborn - when we ARE His, we don't WANT to do those the things we did before.
We obey out love, and it's called obedience becuz we are under what HE calls for us to be/do. Faith without works is DEAD.

Just like you OBEY stopping at red lights for your own safety, BUT IT'S STILL A LAW that you must; or you can get a ticket; both operate at the same time.

I've been saying this for 2 weeks yet it goes nowhere - as if I'm a legalist to claim we're under moral laws of God today.

The bible isn't "either/or", but ALL scriptures working together to relay one truth of God.
Thanks for saying this.

Well, when it's said that God chastises His children, I do believe that to be an aspect of moral teaching through life. It implies that we both should want and feel compelled to do the right thing in any given situation - to do the right thing because you feel you have to is still better than doing the wrong thing, but infinitely better is doing the right thing because you want to. A legalistic morality is one where you're constantly looking for ways around doing the right thing and opting for the easy thing, but trying to look good doing it. Doing the right thing not because you want to, but because you know it's the right thing and it's preferential to doing the wrong thing isn't the same as a legalistic morality - you need a firm foundation for any true morality, which also implies that there's a reason to act a certain way, and not simply because you feel you aught to.

RonnyRulz said:

No they don't. God won't ever reject someone covered in the blood of Jesus. That's undeniable for all doctrines.

They have no reason to fear God will reject them.

If your God ever rejects anyone, you are serving the wrong God.
God doesn't even reject people who are going to Hell. They choose to goto Hell because they reject God. Not because God rejects them.

God came into the world to save it, not condemn it. Rejecting it condemnation. Salvation is acceptance.

God accepts to save. Men reject God to condemn themselves.

God never rejects anyone.

If you believe He does, you believe wrongly or you serve the wrong God. Blunt, but a fact.

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Do you even read hte Bible?

What about when in the judgement when people come before Christ and his words will be "Depart, for I did not know you". Sounds like rejection to me. Once someone dies, thats it, no more chances. Either you are a Christian or you arent, either you are going to Heaven or going to Hell. There is no other option. So He most certainly does reject people, those who reject him.

Do you even read hte Bible?

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Do you even know God?

Either you are a Christian or you arent, either you are going to Heaven or going to Hell.

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Yea, and we choose which one right? Meaning we choose to goto Heaven or Hell, to accept Christ or not, to accept God or not.

If someone rejects God, God doesn't have to reject them. Instead, God, throughout their life, always is ready to accept their repentance to give them salvation. After that, He doesn't need to reject them, they already chose Hell.