Does God have a God? Explaining John 20:17 in Defense of the Trinity.

[Bible Highlighter]

And? I never quoted "the Bible Mini Series". Satan wants Jesus to worship him but Jesus responds that he can only worship God proving Jesus does worship his Father.

You didn't have to quote the Bible Mini Series. I am telling you that your belief here sounds like what they are saying.
No verse in the Bible says Jesus worshiped God. You are making assumptions based on other words that can be read in another way.


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[Bible Highlighter]

only becomes an issue when you ignore the humanity of christ.
you could just have asked the question, does God feel pain, does He go hungry, etc..?
obviously you'll only get an issue when you look at Jesus as only God.​

Again, I do not have a problem understanding the verse. I explained it using Scripture in my original post.


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[Bible Highlighter]

http://www.earthsmightiest.com/fansites/BlasphemousRumors/news/?a=5690

I could post lots of links to articles proclaiming the trinity false
doctrine and not one mind would be changed on the subject.

No thank you.


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[VanillaSunflowers]

I believe the passage is speaking from Jesus' human side as his Disciples knew him and from his divine side. After all, his Father did by Mary conceive his only begotten son so as to have him come into the world. And Jesus was imbued with the holy spirit at his Baptism and had the power of God to forgive sins (the Son of Man has the power to forgive sins) and work miracles.

 

[VanillaSunflowers]

Again, I do not have a problem understanding the verse. I explained it using Scripture in my original post.


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Then what do you need us for?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

That was a good lesson on why have you forsaken me, but you missed the point, "does God have a God?" I can see that the trinity doctrine would not allow that. So the real question is, "Does Jesus have a superior in His father?" Simplistically the Bible says Jesus is inferior to His Father, the Father is the authority, Jesus is the teacher and intermediator between man and the Father. Jesus is a God , His Father is a God, and I expect that all in their realm are Gods and collectively these are called God.

I believe in the Trinity because the Bible clearly teaches it.
The Lord our God is one God.
Yet, the Bible also says there are distinctions of persons within the Godhead.
In fact, the Bible uses the word "Godhead." (Which is another way of saying "Trinity.").


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[Bible Highlighter]

Then what do you need us for?

I am all for believers sharing their ideas, but when they act hostile towards me, then that is another matter.
For how does it benefit the good things of God in what you are doing now?
How does it help us in our discussion here involving God's Word?
People have acted hostile towards me in my sharing my explanation and acted like they had all the answers and needed to correct me on it.
I do not mind somebody disagreeing (even strongly), but they should be a little more kinder in their responses to me about it.
And some of them should at least read what I had written before responding, too.


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[VanillaSunflowers]

Because in many parts of the Bible it is clear that Jesus is not the one and only true God, I think that should be understood by this scripture:

Most assuredly I tell you, he who receives whomever I send, receives me; and he who receives

me, receives him who sent me."
John 13:20

So, if you receive me, you receive God, if I speak God’s words. Then I would be like God on earth. But it doesn’t mean that I or any other person who speaks in God’s name is really the one and only God. I think it could be compared to president of a country. He is not the country, but makes deals in the name of the country. Similarly, Jesus made deal in the name of God and he represented God and so was God on earth, even though he is not the only one true God himself according to the Bible, but God’s messenger and mediator between God and men.

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
1 Timothy 2:5

You misunderstand John 13:20. Jesus most certainly was the one true God. As he said.

 

[VanillaSunflowers]

I am all for believers sharing their ideas, but when they act hostile towards me, then that is another matter.
For how does it benefit the good things of God in what you are doing now?
How does it help us in our discussion here involving God's Word?
People have acted hostile towards me in my sharing my explanation and acted like they had all the answers and needed to correct me on it.
I do not mind somebody disagreeing (even strongly), but they should be a little more kinder in their responses to me about it.
And some of them should at least read what I had written before responding, too.


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You may wish to reflect on your defensive posture. I was not at all aggressive in my question. I was responding to your remarks to another member who thought to help your understanding of a Bible passage in a thread you started asking a question about John 20:17.

 

[jeager016]

No thank you.


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^^not one mind would be changed.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You may wish to reflect on your defensive posture. I was not at all aggressive in my question. I was responding to your remarks to another member who thought to help your understanding of a Bible passage in a thread you started asking a question about John 20:17.

But the question I asked also included an answer within that post. It was not an open ended question whereby I did not have an answer to it and or if I was in doubt in any way.

As for your question: Maybe you asked it without having all the facts. I don't know. But to me, the question sounds hostile.
Just as most people's replies here sounded hostile towards me (as if they were attempting to correct me or something).


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[Bible Highlighter]

^^not one mind would be changed.

I believe the Bible clearly teaches that the Lord our God is one God (Deuteronomy 6:4) (1 Timothy 2:5) (Isaiah 45:5).

Yet, I also believe that the Bible teaches that there are distinctions within the Godhead or that there is a plural nature to God.

Here are a couple of quick points:

#1. The word Elohim (אֱלֹהִ֔ים) is both a singular and a plural noun.
#2. God refers to Himself in plural form (Genesis 1:26) (Genesis 3:22) (Genesis 11:7) (Isaiah 6:8).
#3. Plurality of God in New Testament (Matthew 28:19) (2 Corinthians 13:14) (John 14:16-20).
#4. Introductions to both the Son & Holy Spirit (Daniel 7:9,10,13,14) (John 14:16)
#5. Different persons of Godhead appear at one time (Luke 3:21-22)
#6. Distinctions of Wills (Luke 22:42).
#7. Conversations Between the Godhead (Psalm 2:1-12) (Psalm 45:6-7) (Psalm 110:1) (Matthew 11:27) (John 17:24).

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[VanillaSunflowers]

But the question I asked also included an answer within that post. It was not an open ended question whereby I did not have an answer to it and or if I was in doubt in any way.

As for your question: Maybe you asked it without having all the facts. I don't know. But to me, the question sounds hostile.
Just as most people's replies here sounded hostile towards me (as if they were attempting to correct me or something).


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No, I had all the facts. That's why I quoted your remarks to the person to whom you initially addressed them.
I'm not going to argue how you perceive peoples intentions toward you. Rather, I would suggest you look at what you've said about peoples writings in these three pages and how you take them.And where your head is at as you describe reading hostility when you read them.

 

[jeager016]

"global Christianity had 33,820 denominations with 3,445,000 congregations/churches composed of 1,888 million affiliated Christians"

http://www.answers.com/Q/How_many_different_types_of_Christianity_are_there

Each denomination claims the "truth" about the Christian Bible.

Much more on the web if one cares to google it up.

I think if Jesus were here on earth right now he'd say "How in the
world did you guys get my message so screwed up!"
Christianity must mean Christian division.
Then there are the Westboro Baptists that excel at HATE.

http://archive.adl.org/learn/ext_us/wbc/wbc-on-gays.html

“WBC engages in daily peaceful sidewalk demonstrations opposing the homosexual lifestyle of soul-damning, nation-destroying filth. We display large, colorful signs containing Bible words and sentiments, including: GOD HATES [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] HATE GOD, AIDS CURES [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], THANK GOD FOR AIDS, [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] BURN IN HELL, NO NOT MOCKED, [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] ARE NATURE FREAKS, GOD GAVE [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] UP, NO SPECIAL LAWS FOR [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], etc…WBC has conducted some 20,000 such demonstrations during the last nine years at homosexual parades and other events (including funerals of impenitent sodomites, like Matthew Shepard). WBC teams have picketed major [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] parades in San Francisco, New York, Washington D.C., Miami, San Diego, Dallas, Orlando, Kansas City, etc. The unique picketing ministry of Westboro Baptist Church has received national attention, and WBC believes this gospel message to be America's last hope.”

^^^ All in the name of "god".
Sickos."
Westboro people's motto" We are right. We are right. We are right.
We are right. We are right. or W.A.R.
or WAR.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

No, I had all the facts. That's why I quoted your remarks to the person to whom you initially addressed them.
I'm not going to argue how you perceive peoples intentions toward you. Rather, I would suggest you look at what you've said about peoples writings in these three pages and how you take them.And where your head is at as you describe reading hostility when you read them.

So you do not consider these statements as being hostile when I answered the question in my original post?

"This is called sophistry. If you want to know the answer to your question, study the doctrine of the Trinity. If you don't understand that doctrine, you can't understand the answer to your question (but you can ask a question about that doctrine)." ~ Greg J.
​

My Comment: This type of response is not helpful or kind even if I did not know about the Trinity. But I do know of the Trinity and I believe in it, and my question and answer was a way of defending the Trinity. A reply like this seems hostile in it's intent. The word "sophistry" he uses is defined as: "A plausible but misleading or fallacious argument"

SkyWriting said,

Yes, Jesus always prayed to the Father. But rather than
authority based on "position", it was based on respect and
voluntary servitude.

Then I said,
"That's basically what I was saying, as well.
Please read the entirety of my post."

Then Sky Writing replied,
That won't happen. Others are welcome to though.

Then I replied,
Are you against reading a Biblical defense for the Trinity?"
​

Geralt said (in reply to my original post question),

"only becomes an issue when you ignore the humanity of christ."​

My Comment: But nowhere did I ignore the humanity of Christ or make a claim that Jesus is not God. In fact, I defended the Trinity. Even the Title of this thread should tell somebody that I am defending the Trinity.


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[Bible Highlighter]

"global Christianity had 33,820 denominations with 3,445,000 congregations/churches composed of 1,888 million affiliated Christians"

http://www.answers.com/Q/How_many_different_types_of_Christianity_are_there

Each denomination claims the "truth" about the Christian Bible.

Much more on the web if one cares to google it up.

I think if Jesus were here on earth right now he'd say "How in the
world did you guys get my message so screwed up!"
Christianity must mean Christian division.
Then there are the Westboro Baptists that excel at HATE.

http://archive.adl.org/learn/ext_us/wbc/wbc-on-gays.html

View attachment 181788
“WBC engages in daily peaceful sidewalk demonstrations opposing the homosexual lifestyle of soul-damning, nation-destroying filth. We display large, colorful signs containing Bible words and sentiments, including: GOD HATES [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] HATE GOD, AIDS CURES [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], THANK GOD FOR AIDS, [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] BURN IN HELL, NO NOT MOCKED, [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] ARE NATURE FREAKS, GOD GAVE [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] UP, NO SPECIAL LAWS FOR [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], etc…WBC has conducted some 20,000 such demonstrations during the last nine years at homosexual parades and other events (including funerals of impenitent sodomites, like Matthew Shepard). WBC teams have picketed major [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] parades in San Francisco, New York, Washington D.C., Miami, San Diego, Dallas, Orlando, Kansas City, etc. The unique picketing ministry of Westboro Baptist Church has received national attention, and WBC believes this gospel message to be America's last hope.”

^^^ All in the name of "god".
Sickos."
Westboro people's motto" We are right. We are right. We are right.
We are right. We are right. or W.A.R.
or WAR.

As a Christian, I am commanded by God to pray for them and love them
(even if they are not acting in a Christian matter within the Lord's name).
Oh, and yes, I believe in the Trinity and Biblical pacifism and in speaking in love and kindness to everyone (including my enemies).


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[Stillicidia]

Jesus, before a man, was one with God, as a man had a God, after, was as God.

On earth Jesus was yet a man. All the miracles Jesus wrought were yet done by God. He knew what he needed to do, and when, as he was told, day by day, God wrought each of them, because they were according to God's will, which includes water to wine.

 

[jeager016]

Jesus, before a man, was one with god, as a man had a god, after, was as god.

On earth Jesus was yet a man. All the miracles Jesus wrought were yet done by god. He knew what he needed to do, and when, as he was told, day by day, god wrought each of them, because they were according to god's will, which includes water to wine.

That was a good post.
But really? A rubber ducky as an icon?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Jesus, before a man, was one with god, as a man had a god, after, was as god.

On earth Jesus was yet a man. All the miracles Jesus wrought were yet done by god. He knew what he needed to do, and when, as he was told, day by day, god wrought each of them, because they were according to god's will, which includes water to wine.

No. While Jesus did do miracles by both God the Father and the Holy Spirit, Jesus had power of His own, too.

For during His Earthly ministry: Jesus is God (not in Word only but also in power), as well.

1. Jesus said He was going to raise up the temple (his body) three days later (John 2:19-20).
2. Jesus said He had power to raise the dead to life just as the Father can raise the dead to life (John 5:21).
3. Jesus said where two are three are gathered in his name, He is among them (Matthew 18:20).
4. Jesus held everything together by the word of his power when he purged us of our sins (on the cross) (Hebrews 1:3).
5. Jesus had the power of God to forgive sin and provide eternal life to people (Matthew 9:5) (John 10:28).
6. Jesus had the power to take away the sins of the entire world (John 1:29).
7. Jesus received worship as God (Matthew 28:16-17).

Only God could do those things.


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[Geralt]

your problem is not in the trinity but in the nature of christ.

I believe in the Trinity because the Bible clearly teaches it.
The Lord our God is one God.
Yet, the Bible also says there are distinctions of persons within the Godhead.
In fact, the Bible uses the word "Godhead." (Which is another way of saying "Trinity.").
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