LDS Does God give dead faith to people?

[Rescued One]

Bible:

James 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. 18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

Deuteronomy 8:10 When thou hast eaten and art full, then thou shalt bless the LORD thy God for the good land which he hath given thee.

David's Prayer of Praise

1 Chronicles 29:10 Wherefore David blessed the LORD before all the congregation: and David said, Blessed be thou, LORD God of Israel our father, for ever and ever. 11 Thine, O LORD, is the greatness, and the power, and the glory, and the victory, and the majesty: for all that is in the heaven and in the earth is thine; thine is the kingdom, O LORD, and thou art exalted as head above all. 12 Both riches and honour come of thee, and thou reignest over all; and in thine hand is power and might; and in thine hand it is to make great, and to give strength unto all. 13 Now therefore, our God, we thank thee, and praise thy glorious name.

14 But who am I, and what is my people, that we should be able to offer so willingly after this sort? for all things come of thee, and of thine own have we given thee.

1 Peter 4:11 If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Titus 3:3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another. 4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Romans 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

 

[BigDaddy4]

The Hill Comorah is at 43.0070° N, 77.2258° W.

Is this your opinion or your church's official position? If it's the former... meh. If it's the latter, please refer me to their official statement.

Much of the landscape of North America was changed due to earthquakes and volcanoes, however there are roads and ruins in Mesoamerica where 90% of the people were wiped out by disease.
Mesoamerica - Wikipedia

LOL. 90% of the people in the BoM were not wiped out by disease, nor were they subject to earthquakes or volcanoes, if the stories were somehow true. You're going to have to provide a whole lot more evidence than a wikipedia page to show these statements have any bearing on the peoples or lands of the BoM. Seems like you are throwing spaghetti noodles at the wall and hoping something sticks.

Go ahead and say what you are going to say, but remember what the atheist say about the flood.

At times, desperate people make desperate statements...

 

[He is the way]

Is this your opinion or your church's official position? If it's the former... meh. If it's the latter, please refer me to their official statement.


LOL. 90% of the people in the BoM were not wiped out by disease, nor were they subject to earthquakes or volcanoes, if the stories were somehow true. You're going to have to provide a whole lot more evidence than a wikipedia page to show these statements have any bearing on the peoples or lands of the BoM. Seems like you are throwing spaghetti noodles at the wall and hoping something sticks.

At times, desperate people make desperate statements...

Why even ask questions when the answers are NOT accepted? Answering these questions is lesson in futility.

 

[BigDaddy4]

Why even ask questions when the answers are NOT accepted? Answering these questions is lesson in futility.

Trying to receive a straight answer or provide evidence out of the lds is a lesson in futility. You can't even do it here.

The last I'm aware of, the lds church had no official position on the specific location of Hill Cumorah. You gave a specific reference point for where Hill Cumorah is supposedly located. I'm simply asking if that's your opinion or the official lds position. Is that too hard to answer for you? If so, I don't know how to make it any easier.

Further futility is demonstrated by your previous response. Initially, I did not bother to locate the coordinates you gave and just assumed by your Wikipedia reference that you were claiming a Mesoamerica location. Now that I actually Googled the coordinates you gave, you are claiming the Hill Cumorah location is in upstate New York and your supporting evidence is a Wikipedia reference to Mesoamerica along with some vague statement about earthquakes and volcanos in North America.

Talk about futility! No straight answer, no official position by your church, references to geographical areas thousands of miles apart, and a vague statement to natural events that have not been shown to have occurred in upstate New York to the magnitude that would cover up roads and infrastructure necessary to support millions of people.

You want me to believe the BoM fairy tale based on your making things up out of thin air? Please explain why your lacking answers should be accepted as truth and not questioned?

 

[He is the way]

Trying to receive a straight answer or provide evidence out of the lds is a lesson in futility. You can't even do it here.

The last I'm aware of, the lds church had no official position on the specific location of Hill Cumorah. You gave a specific reference point for where Hill Cumorah is supposedly located. I'm simply asking if that's your opinion or the official lds position. Is that too hard to answer for you? If so, I don't know how to make it any easier.

Further futility is demonstrated by your previous response. Initially, I did not bother to locate the coordinates you gave and just assumed by your Wikipedia reference that you were claiming a Mesoamerica location. Now that I actually Googled the coordinates you gave, you are claiming the Hill Cumorah location is in upstate New York and your supporting evidence is a Wikipedia reference to Mesoamerica along with some vague statement about earthquakes and volcanos in North America.

Talk about futility! No straight answer, no official position by your church, references to geographical areas thousands of miles apart, and a vague statement to natural events that have not been shown to have occurred in upstate New York to the magnitude that would cover up roads and infrastructure necessary to support millions of people.

You want me to believe the BoM fairy tale based on your making things up out of thin air? Please explain why your lacking answers should be accepted as truth and not questioned?

The location of the Hill Cumorah was for the first question you asked, and I gave you that answer. The article about Mesoamerica was for the other question you asked. Do you not remember that you asked more than one question? The Book of Mormon states this:

(Book of Mormon | 3 Nephi 9:3 - 12)

3 Behold, that great city Zarahemla have I burned with fire, and the inhabitants thereof.
4 And behold, that great city Moroni have I caused to be sunk in the depths of the sea, and the inhabitants thereof to be drowned.
5 And behold, that great city Moronihah have I covered with earth, and the inhabitants thereof, to hide their iniquities and their abominations from before my face, that the blood of the prophets and the saints shall not come any more unto me against them.
6 And behold, the city of Gilgal have I caused to be sunk, and the inhabitants thereof to be buried up in the depths of the earth;
7 Yea, and the city of Onihah and the inhabitants thereof, and the city of Mocum and the inhabitants thereof, and the city of Jerusalem and the inhabitants thereof; and waters have I caused to come up in the stead thereof, to hide their wickedness and abominations from before my face, that the blood of the prophets and the saints shall not come up any more unto me against them.
8 And behold, the city of Gadiandi, and the city of Gadiomnah, and the city of Jacob, and the city of Gimgimno, all these have I caused to be sunk, and made hills and valleys in the places thereof; and the inhabitants thereof have I buried up in the depths of the earth, to hide their wickedness and abominations from before my face, that the blood of the prophets and the saints should not come up any more unto me against them.
9 And behold, that great city Jacobugath, which was inhabited by the people of king Jacob, have I caused to be burned with fire because of their sins and their wickedness, which was above all the wickedness of the whole earth, because of their secret murders and combinations; for it was they that did destroy the peace of my people and the government of the land; therefore I did cause them to be burned, to destroy them from before my face, that the blood of the prophets and the saints should not come up unto me any more against them.
10 And behold, the city of Laman, and the city of Josh, and the city of Gad, and the city of Kishkumen, have I caused to be burned with fire, and the inhabitants thereof, because of their wickedness in casting out the prophets, and stoning those whom I did send to declare unto them concerning their wickedness and their abominations.
11 And because they did cast them all out, that there were none righteous among them, I did send down fire and destroy them, that their wickedness and abominations might be hid from before my face, that the blood of the prophets and the saints whom I sent among them might not cry unto me from the ground against them.
12 And many great destructions have I caused to come upon this land, and upon this people, because of their wickedness and their abominations.

So this is part of the problem that we have with finding these artifacts. But will you accept this as an answer, I doubt it. I do not believe you are seeking answers at all. What is your objective?

 

[Rescued One]

Romans 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

God has given each Christian the amount of faith that He wants us to have so we have no right to think we're better than the Christian sitting next to us.

 

[BigDaddy4]

The location of the Hill Cumorah was for the first question you asked, and I gave you that answer. The article about Mesoamerica was for the other question you asked. Do you not remember that you asked more than one question?

Actually, I asked 3 questions and they all related to the BoM specifically, not Mesoamerica, if that's not where you are claiming your Hill is located.

So this is part of the problem that we have with finding these artifacts. But will you accept this as an answer, I doubt it. I do not believe you are seeking answers at all. What is your objective?

I guess you do have a problem. You follow a god that is so vengeful to his people that he wipes any trace of them off the face of the earth. How convenient. That's not the God Christians serve.

I will accept it as your answer, but not as an answer to the questions or that there is any truth in your answer.

 

[He is the way]

Romans 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

God has given each Christian the amount of faith that He wants us to have so we have no right to think we're better than the Christian sitting next to us.

God does not give faith, but He does require faith. I do like the last part "we have no right to think we're better than the Christian sitting next to us."

 

[He is the way]

Actually, I asked 3 questions and they all related to the BoM specifically, not Mesoamerica, if that's not where you are claiming your Hill is located.


I guess you do have a problem. You follow a god that is so vengeful to his people that he wipes any trace of them off the face of the earth. How convenient. That's not the God Christians serve.

I will accept it as your answer, but not as an answer to the questions or that there is any truth in your answer.

Mesoamerica is where many of the people lived. There is no reason to believe that they all lived around the Hill Cumorah.

 

[BigDaddy4]

Mesoamerica is where many of the people lived. There is no reason to believe that they all lived around the Hill Cumorah.

Wow, this gets even wilder. So you are saying that the people, places, and events of the BoM took place over a distance of approximately 3,000 miles?

 

[He is the way]

Wow, this gets even wilder. So you are saying that the people, places, and events of the BoM took place over a distance of approximately 3,000 miles?

More than 3,000 miles. Lehi lived in Jerusalem before coming to the Americas. The Jaredites also crossed an ocean.

 

[Jamesone5]

We were told that the BoM had to be false because no one in Central America used swords. Then the macuahuitl - a sword made of wood and obsidian - was brought back into the public consciousness. This is alongside spears and morningstars made of wood and obsidian, all of which would have been fierce indeed in melee. (Yes, I've handled obsidian IRL back in the geology lab; it's common as dirt in Central America and can get a good, sharp edge going.)

We were told that the BoM had to be false because it referred to armor. Now it's known that the Aztecs (IIRC) used a type of stiffened and padded clothing alongside wooden shields and helmets. This would indeed have been effective against basic weaponry like sling bullets and clubs, and would have offered at least token protection against obsidian weapons.

We were told that the BoM had to be false because metal working did not exist. Now it's known that the people of Central America worked extensively with gold and copper, even using an alloy of the two known as Tumbaga that fits the description of what was used with the plates Joseph recovered.

As time goes on, more and more claims of impossibility fall by the wayside as discoveries are made about what went on.

Seems like a lot of "we were told [differently]" in a lot in your beliefs, or really that is what it comes down to.

since Faith is this:

Hebrews 11:1
[ Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

There is a lot of wishful thinking and a lot of false hope that Mormons can prove to the rest of the world that the BoM is true.

 

[He is the way]

Seems like a lot of "we were told [differently]" in a lot in your beliefs, or really that is what it comes down to.

since Faith is this:

Hebrews 11:1
[ Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

There is a lot of wishful thinking and a lot of false hope that Mormons can prove to the rest of the world that the BoM is true.

I have found that it is impossible to prove anything to anyone who will not believe. Atheists still believe that life was created through happenstance. Flat earthers still believe that the earth is flat. No amount of evidence will change their beliefs. Even during NDEs people cling to their beliefs and God allows them to do so because of their free will. However, eventually they may come to know the truth.

 

[Jamesone5]

I have found that it is impossible to prove anything to anyone who will not believe. Atheists still believe that life was created through happenstance. Flat earthers still believe that the earth is flat. No amount of evidence will change their beliefs. Even during NDEs people cling to their beliefs and God allows them to do so because of their free will. However, eventually they may come to know the truth.

What do atheists and flat earthers have to do with what I say?
I believe in the Bible for a start and realize that:
Hebrews 11:1
[ Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen

Believe in what, exactly ?
A false prophet that came upon the earth in the early 1800's.

This what we are told to Believe in

John 3:16 (NKJV)
16For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life

 

[He is the way]

What do atheists and flat earthers have to do with what I say?
I believe in the Bible for a start and realize that:
Hebrews 11:1
[ Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen

It is no good to have faith in something that is not true:

(Book of Mormon | Alma 32:21)

21 And now as I said concerning faith—faith is not to have a perfect knowledge of things; therefore if ye have faith ye hope for things which are not seen, which are true.

 

[Jamesone5]

It is no good to have faith in something that is not true:

(Book of Mormon | Alma 32:21)

21 And now as I said concerning faith—faith is not to have a perfect knowledge of things; therefore if ye have faith ye hope for things which are not seen, which are true.

Yes I know you quote the BoM a lot--proves nothing to me and the countless millions of others that have investigated your faith.

But I notice you Alma thing gets away from faith with the claim:which are true, even as the verse claims to not have a perfect knowledge of things. It intermixes faith, hope, and what is true and a very unbiblical way. The verse essentially says nothing at all.

Which is it---- things that are true or do we arrive by Faith as this Hebrews verse tells us?

Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen

 

[He is the way]

Yes I know you quote the BoM a lot--proves nothing to me and the countless millions of others that have investigated your faith.

But I notice you Alma thing gets away from faith with the claim:which are true, even as the verse claims to not have a perfect knowledge of things. It intermixes faith, hope, and what is true and a very unbiblical way. The verse essentially says nothing at all.

Which is it---- things that are true or do we arrive by Faith as this Hebrews verse tells us?

Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen

If you believe the earth is flat, will that make it so? I say it won't.

 

[Jamesone5]

If you believe the earth is flat, will that make it so? I say it won't.

If I believe the world is flat? now you are going off in the weeds
Gee, we even have pictures from space showing it is round. Not even a question and has absolutely nothing to do with faith.

 

[He is the way]

If I believe the world is flat? now you are going off in the weeds
Gee, we even have pictures from space showing it is round. Not even a question and has absolutely nothing to do with faith.

There are still people who believe that the earth is flat:

Are Flat-Earthers Being Serious?

So you see that faith alone does not work. It is important to have faith in something that is true.

 

[Jamesone5]

There are still people who believe that the earth is flat:

Are Flat-Earthers Being Serious?

So you see that faith alone does not work. It is important to have faith in something that is true.

The question is -----are you serious?

Faith as it apples to God and Jesus Christ. Hebrews is in the Bible, right? Wouldn't' that be on Faith is what they are looking for--these so-called flat earthers? Guess like Mormons they will be claiming it is true without proof that IT IS true.

You never witnessed Joseph Smith and the angel Moroni giving him the golden plates but you have Faith that happened , right?
Maybe Joseph Smith is just a myth, yet you believe he was a man on Faith.
God has truth--you do not get to tell Him was is true.

Mark 12:32
So the scribe said to Him, “Well said, Teacher. You have spoken the truth, for there is one God, and there is no other but He.

One God or many--- as Mormons want to believe in?