Does God exist?

[Received]

Except there is no universality

Do you believe in evolution?

 

[PsychoSarah]

Do you think the existence of evil and the existence of an all loving and all powerful God is logically incompatible?

Of course, because an all powerful god could get rid of suffering without lessening the experience of its creations, and a completely benevolent being would have no motivation to allow suffering to exist. So such a being would have every motivation to eliminate suffering, and the ability to actually do it, as well as no motivation to create or allow suffering.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Do you believe in evolution?

Even evolution doesn't have consistent speed, mutations have different frequency, etc.

 

[Jeremy E Walker]

Exactly. Which is why morality is so inconsistent across different times and societies.

If I were to tell you that cutting pregnant women's stomachs open was objectively wrong, what would you say?

 

[Jeremy E Walker]

Of course, because an all powerful god could get rid of suffering without lessening the experience of its creations, and a completely benevolent being would have no motivation to allow suffering to exist. So such a being would have every motivation to eliminate suffering, and the ability to actually do it, as well as no motivation to create or allow suffering.

Let's formally debate it then.

 

[PsychoSarah]

If I were to tell you that cutting pregnant women's stomachs open was objectively wrong, what would you say?

You are going to have to be sure to exclude medical necessity there, like C-sections. I would comment no human perspective can be objective.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Let's formally debate it then.

Sure, go ahead. It has been debated tons already but I accept your challenge.

 

[FireDragon76]

I can't reconcile a loving God that cares for all his creation allowing 9 million children to die and suffer every year and for that same God to allow the serial killer to find eternal paradise by finding Jesus in prison, while the non-believer or Hindu who lives a life of helping others, will burn for eternity.

This is a caricature of what most Christians believe.

Billy Graham represented just one strain of Christianity, one that is in the minority globally.

 

[quatona]

Sarah, maybe no one has told you this, but you need to know.

If what is moral or immoral is solely a matter of human opinion and feeling and preference, then your opinion that killing pregnant women is immoral is like you saying pizza is nasty. Many might share your opinion and agree with you. Those that do not simply do not.

Rest assured, we keep being told all this (and to a subjectivist like me, that´s actually carrying coals to Newcastle), and you are describing reality to the T here:

Many might share your opinion and agree with you. Those that do not simply do not.

Quite obviously (and since you do believe in a God) the existence of a God doesn´t/wouldn´t solve the problem that not every agrees with me.
This can be frustrating at times, and I am sure you can relate: Many might share your opinion that the God of your concept exists, many might even share your opinion about the moral views your God holds - but those that do not simply don´t.

Now, since I wouldn´t change my mind about killing pregnant women even if a God would downright dictate it, I do not really know how to handle your argument.

 

[quatona]

If I were to tell you that cutting pregnant women's stomachs open was objectively wrong, what would you say?

I would ask you what exactly you mean when saying "objectively", in order to make sure we aren´t talking past each other.

 

[quatona]

Do you think the existence of evil and the existence of an all loving and all powerful God is logically incompatible?

Whether or not we agree with the PoE was not the point here. The point was that you misunderstood/misrepresented this argument.
Once you have conceded this, we can move on and discuss the merits and shortcomings of the argument as it actually goes.

 

[Jeremy E Walker]

You are going to have to be sure to exclude medical necessity there, like C-sections. I would comment no human perspective can be objective.

Do you think you are more moral than the one who thinks it is objectively wrong for that to happen?

 

[Jeremy E Walker]

Whether or not we agree with the PoE was not the point here. The point was that you misunderstood/misrepresented this argument.
Once you have conceded this, we can move on and discuss the merits and shortcomings of the argument as it actually goes.

Not talking to you.

 

[FireDragon76]

Cortana, Siri, etc are starting to disagree with that.

Siri and Cortana aren't conscious or aware. I'm suggesting something more like the reality that God is more like the awareness itself that pre-existed anything material. Matter emerged from Mind, not mind from matter.

But they do not doubt the fact that it emerges from a brain. There is no doubt that the consciousness is dependent on the existence of the brain, that it cannot exist without the brain.

There's plenty of doubt consciousness emerges from the brain. Many educated people, even some scientists, doubt this.

I also believe near-death experiences are evidence that there is a mind-body dualism, that the mind is not simply software running on a brain. Matter is the way that consciousness becomes embodied. The experience of yogi's and others adept at meditation are also good examples of how the mind is not simply reducible to the brain, since many of them are capable of doing things like flattening their EEG's below deep delta waves, yet continuing to remain conscious in the process.

When it comes to the natural sciences, philosophers can take a hike

LOL

This disdain for philosophy betrays an anti-intellectualism that doesn't do you justice.

 

[bhsmte]

This is a caricature of what most Christians believe.

Billy Graham represented just one strain of Christianity, one that is in the minority globally.

Is it your position then that non-believers and those who pray to a different God than the one depicted in the bible then go to heaven, if they live a good life?

Is it your position then, that the person who has lived a life of harming others, is not allowed heaven no matter how much he repents and claims to acknowledge Jesus as his savior?

 

[bhsmte]

Siri and Cortana aren't conscious or aware. I'm suggesting something more like the reality that God is more like the awareness itself that pre-existed anything material. Matter emerged from Mind, not mind from matter.



There's plenty of doubt consciousness emerges from the brain. Many educated people, even some scientists, doubt this.

I also believe near-death experiences are evidence that there is a mind-body dualism, that the mind is not simply software running on a brain. Matter is the way that consciousness becomes embodied. The experience of yogi's and others adept at meditation are also good examples of how the mind is not simply reducible to the brain, since many of them are capable of doing things like flattening their EEG's below deep delta waves, yet continuing to remain conscious in the process.




This disdain for philosophy betrays an anti-intellectualism that doesn't do you justice.

Take away the brain, do you have consciousness?

 

[bhsmte]

Do you think you are more moral than the one who thinks it is objectively wrong for that to happen?

Why would that even enter one's mind, after 24 hours of labor and the doctor says we need to do a C section to save the baby?

 

[FireDragon76]

Take away the brain, do you have consciousness?

Define what "take away the brain" means. I believe that my brain is important for what it means to be me, at this moment, but that doesn't mean I doubt I will continue to exist in continuity with who I am now, after death.

 

[Jeremy E Walker]

Why would that even enter one's mind, after 24 hours of labor and the doctor says we need to do a C section to save the baby?

I am not talking about c-section. I am referring to what the person said earlier about women having their babies ripped out of their stomach, you know, in a not so sanitary and gentle manner but the manner more in line with the whole "I am gonna destroy you and enjoy doing it" manner.

 

[Jeremy E Walker]

Define what "take away the brain" means. I believe that my brain is important for what it means to be me, at this moment, but that doesn't mean I doubt I will continue to exist in continuity with who I am now, after death.

he is arguing that consciousness exists only as a by-product of a physical brain.

Ask him to support this.