Does God exist?

[Achilles6129]

You think it is a sign of God because it is unique in this solar system??? There's only two planets in the range of the sun that would allow a satellite to fit the correct size. That one of those two planets has a satellite which does so seems pretty unremarkable. I can't imagine any reason for you thinking that it is a sign of God.

Absolutely untrue. Any planet could technically have a satellite that causes the total eclipse effect we see - all it needs is to be the right size.

 

[BL2KTN]

Absolutely untrue. Any planet could technically have a satellite that causes the total eclipse effect we see - all it needs is to be the right size.

For all planets past Mars, the sun appears as a tiny dot. Perhaps some of the moons of Jupiter and Saturn do create eclipses... it would be difficult to know given that they do not views out of their atmospheres from their inner surfaces. Planets closer than Earth (Venus and Mercury) are so close to the sun that a satellite would have to be so large that it would not truly be a satellite if it caused an eclipse. Instead you would have binary planets, which I think are impossible because gravity will force them together rather than allow for stable rotation.

 

[Achilles6129]

For all planets past Mars, the sun appears as a tiny dot. Perhaps some of the moons of Jupiter and Saturn do create eclipses... it would be difficult to know given that they do not views out of their atmospheres from their inner surfaces.

Right, and they could still have satellites that create eclipses like the earth/moon system. They do not.

Here's a list of the moons in the solar system. You will note that Venus/Mercury have no moons: earth is the closest planet to the sun with a moon.

http://solarsystem.nasa.gov/planets/profile.cfm?Display=Moons

 

[BL2KTN]

Did you not just read what I wrote? It is very possible that Jupiter and Saturn do feature eclipses. And please do not patronize me... I am very aware of the celestial bodies in our solar system.

 

[Achilles6129]

Did you not just read what I wrote? It is very possible that Jupiter and Saturn do feature eclipses. And please do not patronize me... I am very aware of the celestial bodies in our solar system.

I am aware they have eclipses: the point is that they don't have eclipses like the earth/moon system. The earth/moon system is unique because the moon exactly covers the sun, making a brilliant lighting effect during a total eclipse. I'm not sure what the lighting effect would look like out from Jupiter/Saturn (due to the smallness of the sun), but they do not have a satellite that exactly covers the sun as the earth does.

 

[BL2KTN]

The earth/moon system is unique because the moon exactly covers the sun

You've already been corrected about this... they are not exact matches.

 

[Eight Foot Manchild]

Even if they were exact matches, it would prove absolutely nothing in regard to any 'god'. It's an utterly asinine non-argument.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

It's unique in this solar system, which is the point. We simply don't know enough about the universe to know whether it's unique in the universe or not. We can't base something like this (that we simply don't know) on probabilities. It's unique in the solar system which is amazing enough in and of itself.

Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?
-Douglas Adams

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Not in the slightest. Remember I said "a Creator"; I didn't say which one. That's all I really need to challenge your position.

No, it's not. You say "Creator." I say "Moon God jealous of Sun God." Is that all I need to challenge your position? Of course not.

 

[KCfromNC]

Not in the slightest. Remember I said "a Creator"; I didn't say which one.

The sun and moon gods aren't creators.

Man, this theology stuff is easy.

It's unique in this solar system, which is the point.

How does "unique system perfectly consistent with natural laws" have anything to do with a supernatural creator god?

 

[Achilles6129]

You've already been corrected about this... they are not exact matches.

They are virtually exact matches. Close enough to create a brilliant lighting effect. Kind of strange in a "random" universe that was created (sic!) through chance.

Even if they were exact matches, it would prove absolutely nothing in regard to any 'god'. It's an utterly asinine non-argument.

Sure it would. It would be yet another unexplained antitheistic "coincidence." A feature of design would be things aesthetically designed without the purpose of existence, as I said earlier.

Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?
-Douglas Adams

Aesthetic design would be a part of a Creator's creation, so I'm not sure what the problem is.

No, it's not. You say "Creator." I say "Moon God jealous of Sun God." Is that all I need to challenge your position? Of course not.

So you've admitted to the supernatural...

 

[BL2KTN]

They are virtually exact matches. Close enough to create a brilliant lighting effect. Kind of strange in a "random" universe that was created (sic!) through chance.

And now we're back to the universe argument... in which there are likely fifty quadrillion other such planets with similar eclipses. But hey, you love this belief, so stick to it in face of the facts. It makes you feel fuzzy I guess.

 

[PsychoSarah]

I am aware they have eclipses: the point is that they don't have eclipses like the earth/moon system. The earth/moon system is unique because the moon exactly covers the sun, making a brilliant lighting effect during a total eclipse. I'm not sure what the lighting effect would look like out from Jupiter/Saturn (due to the smallness of the sun), but they do not have a satellite that exactly covers the sun as the earth does.

Comment, these sorts of eclipses we experience won't happen forever, as the moon is continuously getting farther and farther away from the earth. Eventually, from our perspective, the moon will be "too small" to create a total eclipse. In addition, in the past the moon was much closer, and during eclipses would completely blot out the sun.

Considering however the number of planets we have discovered, and the countless ones we haven't, as well as the number of moons planets can have I highly doubt eclipses like the ones we have on earth are anything special.

 

[Golden Yak]

They are virtually exact matches. Close enough to create a brilliant lighting effect. Kind of strange in a "random" universe that was created (sic!) through chance.

What about the universe being 'random' (for a given value of 'random') would prevent it from containing phenomenon that a human might consider 'brilliant?'

You may as well point to any distinctive feature and declare it's designed - jupiter's eye, saturn's rings, the fact that there are different colored stars. Why wouldn't you expect these things if the universe were not a creation?

 

[GoldenBoy89]

Aesthetic design would be a part of a Creator's creation, so I'm not sure what the problem is.

You missed the point. You find an eclipse to be amazing because "God made it." I find an eclipse to be amazing just for what it is.

I don't need to attribute that to some deity, carefully planning on making the moon the exact perfect size and distance from the earth and sun to make an awesome eclipse. That's unnecessary to the fact that eclipses are awesome.

Just like with the garden quote. Gardens are beautiful. I don't need to imagine fairies and pixies living there to think gardens are beautiful or inspiring.

 

[KCfromNC]

They are virtually exact matches.

Weird. You claim it is a perfect match and that's evidence for god. You're then corrected and you now say that it being close enough is evidence for god. Seems like no matter what the reality is, your conclusion is the same. I'd imagine if we had no moon at all you'd be making the same conclusion. So why pretend your belief in god is based on evidence if your faith stays the same no matter what the evidence says?

 

[Hentenza]

Thread closed.

Please read the posting rules for this forum.

No General Apologetics Topics

Apologetics is a branch of theology that concerns itself with defending or proving the truths of the Christian faith and doctrines. Discussion and debate on subjects related to general apologetics are not allowed in the Discussion and Debate category forums. Christians who would like to discuss apologetics may do so in the Christian Apologetics forum.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7797810/