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Does God call and then give us a choice to respond to his call?

DeaconDean

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Gal 2:16 yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

I'm cookoo for Forum Runner.

I jus saying, I know somebody who would say you are wrong.

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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faceofbear

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The Bible also states that Christ was raised for our justification. It also states the righteous act of one Man brought justification for all, in the same chapters no less. So which is it? Christ's resurrection? Or our faith? Or is it through faith?
 
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Hupomone10

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The Bible also states that Christ was raised for our justification. It also states the righteous act of one Man brought justification for all, in the same chapters no less. So which is it? Christ's resurrection? Or our faith? Or is it through faith?
Yes.

Short answer, I know. But you need only look at the very context of the verse from which you got your example "raised for our justification". (Rom 4:25)

[B]Rom 4:20-22[/B]
20 "yet, with respect to the promise of God, he did not waver in unbelief, but grew strong in faith, giving glory to God,
21 and being fully assured that what He had promised, He was able also to perform.
22 Therefore also IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS."
(NASB)

The immediate context was faith. But faith in what? Faith always has an object. The object of Christian faith is Christ and His accomplished work. Verses 20-22 focus on faith. Verse 25 gives the foundation and object of faith.

In ch. 5:1 Paul once again returns to speak of faith, showing that they are one thing, not separate methods.
"Therefore having been justified by faith..."

Blessings,
H. (Bill)
 
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Hupomone10

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faith is only a part of what justifies you. repentence is too. there are people who had faith who will never see heaven becuase they did not repent as well.
I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. Are you referring to repenting generally from sin when coming to Christ, or repenting of every individual or some individual sin?

Please give some examples of persons who saw that they had no right to Holy God whatsoever apart from the shed blood of Christ and fled for refuge to the Cross of Christ relying on Him as their payment for sin and power for living the Christian life (faith), yet who missed heaven due to lack of repentance.

Also, some passages linking strictly repentance to justification would be good.

Thanks,
H.
 
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Hammster

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faceofbear said:
The Bible also states that Christ was raised for our justification. It also states the righteous act of one Man brought justification for all, in the same chapters no less. So which is it? Christ's resurrection? Or our faith? Or is it through faith?

I'd recommend looking at the tines where faith, and justification are mentioned and draw your conclusion from there.

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the particular baptist

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I'd recommend looking at the tines where faith, and justification are mentioned and draw your conclusion from there.

I'm cookoo for Forum Runner.

But thats not all there is. It is said we are justified by the faith of Christ, etc, so which is it ? It must be all of the above. Through faith i experienced justification which was decreed in the mind of God in eternity past, accomplished at Calvary, and revealed to me in time.

The 1689 LBCF...

"Those whom God effectually calls, he also freely justifies,1 not by infusing righteousness into them, but by pardoning their sins, and by accounting and accepting their persons as righteous;2 not for anything wrought in them, or done by them, but for Christ's sake alone;3 not by imputing faith itself, the act of believing, or any other evangelical obedience to them, as their righteousness; but by imputing Christ's active obedience unto the whole law, and passive obedience in his death for their whole and sole righteousness by faith,4 which faith they have not of themselves; it is the gift of God.5"

1 Rom. 3:24, 8:30
2 Rom. 4:5-8, Eph. 1:7
3 1 Cor. 1:30,31, Rom. 5:17-19
4 Phil. 3:8,9; Eph. 2:8-10
5 John 1:12, Rom. 5:17
 
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the particular baptist

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Mr Spurgeon on the topic ...But there are one or two acts of God which, while they certainly are decreed as much as other things, yet they bear such a special relation to God’s predestination that it is rather difficult to say wheth...er they were done in eternity or whether they were done in time. Election is one of those things which were done absolutely in eternity; all who were elect, were elect as much in eternity as they are in time. But you may say, Does the like affirmation apply to adoption or justification?

My late eminent and now glorified predecessor, Dr. Gill, diligently studying these doctrines, said that adoption was the act of God in eternity, and that as all believers were elect in eternity, so beyond a doubt they were adopted in eternity. He further than that to include the doctrine of justification and he said that inasmuch as Jesus Christ was before all worlds justified by his Father, and accepted by him as our representative, therefore all the elect must have been justified in Christ from before all worlds.

Now, I believe there is a great deal of truth in what he said, though there was a considerable outcry raised against him at the time he first uttered it. However, that being a high and mysterious point, we would have you accept the doctrine that all those who are saved at last were elect in eternity when the means as well the end were determined. With regard to adoption, I believe we were predestined hereunto in eternity, but I do think there are some points with regard to adoption which will not allow me to consider the act of adoption to have been completed in eternity.

For instance, the positive translation of my soul from a state of nature into a state of grace is a part of adoption or at least it is an effect at it, and so close an effect that it really seems to be a part of adoption itself: I believe that this was designed, and in fact that it was virtually carried out in God’s everlasting covenant; but I think that it was that actually then brought to pass in all its fullness. So with regard to justification, I must hold, that in the moment when Jesus Christ paid my debts, my debts were cancelled — in the hour when he worked out for me a perfect righteousness it was imputed to me, and therefore I may as a believer say I was complete in Christ before I was born, accepted in Jesus, even as Levi was blessed in the loins of Abraham by Melchisedec; but I know likewise that justification is described in the Scriptures as passing upon me at the time I believe. “Being justified by faith,” I am told “I have peace with God, through Jesus Christ.”

I think, therefore that adoption and justification, while they have a very great alliance with eternity, and were virtually done then, yet have both of them such a near relation to us in time, and such a bearing upon our own personal standing and character that they have also a part and parcel of themselves actually carried out and performed in time in the heart of every believer. I may be wrong in this exposition; it requires much more time to study this subject than I have been able yet to give to it, seeing that my years are not yet many; I shall no doubt by degrees come to the knowledge more fully of such high and mysterious points of gospel doctrine. But nevertheless, while I find the majority of sound divines holding that the works of justification and adoption are due in our lives I see, on the other hand, in Scripture much to lead me to believe that both of them were done in eternity; and I think the fairest view of the case is, that while they were virtually done in eternity, yet both adoption and justification are actually passed upon us, in our proper persons, consciences, and experiences, in time, — so that both the Westminster confession and the idea of Dr. Gill can be proved to be Scriptural, and we may hold them both without any prejudice the one to the other.

from Mr Spurgeon's sermon "Adoption", Metropolitan Tabernacle Pulpit Vol. 7
 
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DeaconDean

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Now, I believe there is a great deal of truth in what he said, though there was a considerable outcry raised against him at the time he first uttered it.

There is a great deal of outcry against the man in this thread!

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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RobertZ

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faith is only a part of what justifies you. repentence is too. there are people who had faith who will never see heaven becuase they did not repent as well.

True faith and repentance go hand in hand brother, they cannot be separated. If one has genuine faith in Christ repentance will naturally follow.
 
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Hupomone10

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True faith and repentance go hand in hand brother, they cannot be separated. If one has genuine faith in Christ repentance will naturally follow.
Repentance from dead works (Heb 6:1), or repentance from sin in general (from sin and toward God), or repentance from every know individual sin?
 
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RobertZ

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Repentance from dead works (Heb 6:1), or repentance from sin in general (from sin and toward God), or repentance from every know individual sin?

No it certainly isnt a repentance from every known sin, its a change of mind in regards to the way you were living before you were saved that I am talking about.
 
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CoconutPrincess

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No it certainly isnt a repentance from every known sin, its a change of mind in regards to the way you were living before you were saved that I am talking about.

Many believe that repent is "turning away" but the word repent means "change of mind". In the dictionary repent means:

1. to feel sorry, self-reproachful, or contrite for past conduct; regret or be conscience-stricken about a past action, attitude, etc. (often followed by of ): He repented after his thoughtless act.
2. to feel such sorrow for sin or fault as to be disposed to change one's life for the better; be penitent.

If our mind is changed, our life will be changed, it's not about perfection, its about direction :)

It's great that you brought up the true meaning of repent :)
 
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Hentenza

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faith is only a part of what justifies you. repentence is too. there are people who had faith who will never see heaven becuase they did not repent as well.

Repentance is a result of faith not a requirement of justification. Justification is by faith alone.
 
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Hammster

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DeaconDean said:
There is a great deal of outcry against the man in this thread!

God Bless

Till all are one.

Relax, Dean. I reference Gill from time to time. But my assessment if him us just that; mine. I'm not throwing the baby out with the bath water.

I'm cookoo for Forum Runner.
 
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Hammster

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the particular baptist said:
Mr Spurgeon on the topic ...But there are one or two acts of God which, while they certainly are decreed as much as other things, yet they bear such a special relation to God's predestination that it is rather difficult to say wheth...er they were done in eternity or whether they were done in time. Election is one of those things which were done absolutely in eternity; all who were elect, were elect as much in eternity as they are in time. But you may say, Does the like affirmation apply to adoption or justification?

My late eminent and now glorified predecessor, Dr. Gill, diligently studying these doctrines, said that adoption was the act of God in eternity, and that as all believers were elect in eternity, so beyond a doubt they were adopted in eternity. He further than that to include the doctrine of justification and he said that inasmuch as Jesus Christ was before all worlds justified by his Father, and accepted by him as our representative, therefore all the elect must have been justified in Christ from before all worlds.

Now, I believe there is a great deal of truth in what he said, though there was a considerable outcry raised against him at the time he first uttered it. However, that being a high and mysterious point, we would have you accept the doctrine that all those who are saved at last were elect in eternity when the means as well the end were determined. With regard to adoption, I believe we were predestined hereunto in eternity, but I do think there are some points with regard to adoption which will not allow me to consider the act of adoption to have been completed in eternity.

For instance, the positive translation of my soul from a state of nature into a state of grace is a part of adoption or at least it is an effect at it, and so close an effect that it really seems to be a part of adoption itself: I believe that this was designed, and in fact that it was virtually carried out in God's everlasting covenant; but I think that it was that actually then brought to pass in all its fullness. So with regard to justification, I must hold, that in the moment when Jesus Christ paid my debts, my debts were cancelled -- in the hour when he worked out for me a perfect righteousness it was imputed to me, and therefore I may as a believer say I was complete in Christ before I was born, accepted in Jesus, even as Levi was blessed in the loins of Abraham by Melchisedec; but I know likewise that justification is described in the Scriptures as passing upon me at the time I believe. "Being justified by faith," I am told "I have peace with God, through Jesus Christ."

I think, therefore that adoption and justification, while they have a very great alliance with eternity, and were virtually done then, yet have both of them such a near relation to us in time, and such a bearing upon our own personal standing and character that they have also a part and parcel of themselves actually carried out and performed in time in the heart of every believer. I may be wrong in this exposition; it requires much more time to study this subject than I have been able yet to give to it, seeing that my years are not yet many; I shall no doubt by degrees come to the knowledge more fully of such high and mysterious points of gospel doctrine. But nevertheless, while I find the majority of sound divines holding that the works of justification and adoption are due in our lives I see, on the other hand, in Scripture much to lead me to believe that both of them were done in eternity; and I think the fairest view of the case is, that while they were virtually done in eternity, yet both adoption and justification are actually passed upon us, in our proper persons, consciences, and experiences, in time, -- so that both the Westminster confession and the idea of Dr. Gill can be proved to be Scriptural, and we may hold them both without any prejudice the one to the other.

from Mr Spurgeon's sermon "Adoption", Metropolitan Tabernacle Pulpit Vol. 7

I would agree with this. By the way it was being presented earlier was that we were justified solely apart from faith. That just isn't true.

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Hupomone10

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No it certainly isnt a repentance from every known sin, its a change of mind in regards to the way you were living before you were saved that I am talking about.
:thumbsup:
Many believe that repent is "turning away" but the word repent means "change of mind". In the dictionary repent means:

1. to feel sorry, self-reproachful, or contrite for past conduct; regret or be conscience-stricken about a past action, attitude, etc. (often followed by of ): He repented after his thoughtless act.
2. to feel such sorrow for sin or fault as to be disposed to change one's life for the better; be penitent.

If our mind is changed, our life will be changed, it's not about perfection, its about direction
smile.gif
:thumbsup:
Repentance is a result of faith not a requirement of justification. Justification is by faith alone.
:thumbsup:

Couldn't say it better. Thanks.
 
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