Does God always heal?

dignitized · Jan 30, 2003

Andrew: to whom and under what circumstances was that verse written? Was it written to all men? was it written to Israel? was it written to the remnant? What did they do to acquire that healing? There is great value to knowing the context of a verse. In this case David was making a personal confession. He is speaking to himself. He is reminding himself that God has always provided for him in all his trials and all his circumstances.

Allow me to point you to an example of suffering and affliction in the scriptures. Paul speaks of carrying the marks of the passion in his flesh. In Greek the word for marks used is Stigmata - the wounds of the passion of Our Lord. Many Saints, RC and otherwise have exhibited these wounds through out history. The most famous of which was St Francis of Assisi. Other examples include: Theresa Newman, Lukardis of Oberweimer, Catherine of Siena, Heather Woods, Ethel Chapman, and Padre Pio. These people are all well known for their piety and their faith. Can you explain how they exhibited the wounds of the passion of our Lord with out God causing them?

Andrew · Jan 30, 2003

Andrew: to whom and under what circumstances was that verse written? Was it written to all men? was it written to Israel? was it written to the remnant? What did they do to acquire that healing? There is great value to knowing the context of a verse. In this case David was making a personal confession. He is speaking to himself. He is reminding himself that God has always provided for him in all his trials and all his circumstances.

oh come on, of cse it is written to us! read the part "who forgives all our sins" that comes b4 it. If you say its not for us, then neither is forgiveness of sins, and neither are these other verses in Psalm 103 for us today:

8 The LORD is merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and plenteous in mercy.
11 For as the heaven is high above the earth, so great is his mercy toward them that fear him.
12 As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.

so, you'd have to come up with a better excuse than that

Allow me to point you to an example of suffering and affliction in the scriptures. Paul speaks of carrying the marks of the passion in his flesh. In Greek the word for marks used is Stigmata - the wounds of the passion of Our Lord. Many Saints, RC and otherwise have exhibited these wounds through out history. The most famous of which was St Francis of Assisi. Other examples include: Theresa Newman, Lukardis of Oberweimer, Catherine of Siena, Heather Woods, Ethel Chapman, and Padre Pio. These people are all well known for their piety and their faith. Can you explain how they exhibited the wounds of the passion of our Lord with out God causing them?

It doesnt matter how many sad stories you give me on Christians who have suffered sickness. Experiences in no way negates the atoning work of Christ -- that he bore our sicknesses and pains too.

We walk by faith, not by what we see happening around us. And again, you are confusing faithfulness with faith to move mountains. You can be the most faithful Christian in your church but know next to nothing about healing scriptures -- so how can there be faith to get healed? that's the difference. even if the person knows abt healing and prays with faith and still dies, it does not in any way negate Psalm 103 or any other healing scripture. Let God be true and every man a liar.

Outspoken · Jan 30, 2003

"Experiences in no way negates the atoning work of Christ"

totally agreed! BUT this doesn't mean that God doesn't allow and even in some cases cause sickness.

"you are confusing faithfulness with faith to move mountains."

Actaully in his examples they are quite the same thing.

Julie · Jan 30, 2003

Does God always heal?http://www.christianforums.com/threads/33497.html

I would say no, not always.

2 Corinthians 12

7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

 
8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.

9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

11 I am become a fool in glorying; ye have compelled me: for I ought to have been commended of you: for in nothing am I behind the very chiefest apostles, though I be nothing.

12 Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds.

Warrior FC · Jan 30, 2003

Your FAITH will make you whole!

If you don't believe that God always heals, then you will not always recieve healing....

MATTHEW 9:35
And Jesus was going about all the cities and the vilages, teaching in their synagogues, and proclaiming the gospel of the kingdom and HEALING EVERY KIND OF DISEASE AND EVERY KIND OF SICKNESS.

Now read MATTHEW 10:1... again Jesus gave the authority to the apostles as well to HEAL EVERY KIND OF DISEASE AND EVERY KIND OF SICKNESS.

We, just as Jesus and the apostles had in the begining, have been given the authority over all sickness and disease. It's up to us to recieve that and walk in that authority... God has already given it to us!

He said these signs shall follow THOSE WHO BELIEVE, and one of the signs was to lay hands on the sick AND THEY WILL BE HEALED!

I personally have been healed by God from everything that has come upon me! I speak against sickness and disease (THE POWER OF LIFE AND DEATH IS IN THE TONGUE), I allow the elders of the church I attend to lay hands on me when I'm sick and annoint and pray for me, and try and follow the leading of the Holy Spirit when I need healing...

I guess I'm just dumb enough to BELIEVE that God will ALWAYS HEAL ME!.. And so far... HE HAS!

Julie · Jan 30, 2003

You must be a better Christian than Paul then.

Andrew · Jan 30, 2003

2 Corinthians 12

7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

this is a real old worn out argument that holds no water. the thorn is as the verse itself states, an angel of Satan, ie a personality thing, not a sickness.

Outspoken · Jan 30, 2003

"I guess I'm just dumb enough to BELIEVE that God will ALWAYS HEAL ME!.. And so far... HE HAS!"

I totally disagree. God allows sickness to persist sometimes. He did in the OT, in the NT and he does now. He doesn't change. He does it for our spiritual betterment. Your body isn't eternal, your spirit is. Which one do you wanna refine? Andrew yes, the argument is old and its plain to see that the thorn was a physical alliment.

Julie · Jan 31, 2003

Originally posted by Andrew
this is a real old worn out argument that holds no water. the thorn is as the verse itself states, an angel of Satan, ie a personality thing, not a sickness.

 

It was his eyesight Andy, his eyesight.

 

I totally disagree. God allows sickness to persist sometimes. He did in the OT, in the NT and he does now. He doesn't change. He does it for our spiritual betterment. Your body isn't eternal, your spirit is. Which one do you wanna refine? Andrew yes, the argument is old and its plain to see that the thorn was a physical alliment.

Thats the truth!

pcmixoye · Jan 31, 2003

Concerning the "thorn" of 2 Cor. 12:
the Greek word is skolops, it refers to a pointed stake, on which people were impaled. gruesome, huh. Paul was speaking about a bodily affliction, one that pierced him through body, soul, and spirit, physical ill-treatment or a physical disability is the idea. Something that hampers his work, Bid used to keep him from arrogance and to keep his focus on Jesus, the true source of his power.

The next thought needs to be balanced with other scriptures: The Greek grammer seems (in my limited understanding) to imply that the "thorn" was given through the act of revelation. that is it came part and parcel along with the tremendous revelation Paul recieved from God. just remember what Peter said, some of the things that Paul said and wrote are hard to understand. although the Holy Spirit can be quite helpful if we read the scriptures ALL the scriptures.
btw it does'nt say what it was,eyesight, what not, so we can't guess, and as far as faith = faithfullness Dietrich Bonnhoeffer said it best. "He who believes obeys and he who obeys believes."  It takes both to effect a healing.

God Bless Pete

dignitized · Jan 31, 2003

Originally posted by Warrior FC
Your FAITH will make you whole!

If you don't believe that God always heals, then you will not always recieve healing....

  As if we can WORK up the type of faith that pleases god

THIS is the type of reasoning that destroys people - destroys the faith of the weak and leads to false teachings.

YES God heals - yes ALL healing comes from God weather through a man or through a miracle.  BUT when you start saying - oh well if you didn't "get healed" you didn't have enough faith is false teaching.  WE ALL have to DIE my friend.  It is part of the HUMAN condition.  Disease is one of the ways that that comes to pass.  You say to a cancer patient that if he has enough faith God will heal him - yet all the while GOD is saying its time for you to come home to me.

Mephster · Jan 31, 2003

God's will be done, Max?

Blade · Jan 31, 2003

Originally posted by Br. Max
  As if we can WORK up the type of faith that pleases god

THIS is the type of reasoning that destroys people - destroys the faith of the weak and leads to false teachings.

YES God heals - yes ALL healing comes from God weather through a man or through a miracle.  BUT when you start saying - oh well if you didn't "get healed" you didn't have enough faith is false teaching.  WE ALL have to DIE my friend.  It is part of the HUMAN condition.  Disease is one of the ways that that comes to pass.  You say to a cancer patient that if he has enough faith God will heal him - yet all the while GOD is saying its time for you to come home to me.

Pleases God? Well the word says "with out faith it is impossible to please God." There is no "TYPE FAITH" here just faith. Go back (not that you did'nt ) and read the 4 books, All the times Jesus healed. You will find him saying ALOT "your faith made you whole". You have to keep your faith up all the time. You can NEVER stop exercising your faith. Cancer works 24 hours a day, it never sleeps just keeps working. Most people wait untill somthing bad happens and then try to believe. You can not look at someone else and say "see what about them?" because you and I have no idea what they believe and say when there alone with God. I have and had a family member who had cancer and all the time he would say God is gona heal him. Yet when I listened to him down the road (weeks later) he keep saying God was never gona heal him. What does the bible say about not believeing? Let not that man think he will receive anything from God. He was like a ship up and down up and down. Yet his friends never heard him say God would not heal him all they heard was "Gods gona heal me". There could be so many things in a persons life that can stop God from answering. How about unforogivness? Jesus said if you don't for give how can your father for give you. So many things. Me I always ask a person that is sick "what can you believe God can to for you". Now this is just one small example. I can give you hundreds of examples that God has done for me, does it make me better? more holy? NO. I believe the word. If he said it he will do it.

Mephster · Jan 31, 2003

Faith, being a grace, is distributed by God. As is healing. Who is to say what God will or will not do? If God chooses to let someone suffer who can accuse God of doing wrong? In all things, God's will is to be done. Healing has nothing to do with degrees of faith. One should have faith that God's will be done, and beyond that, maintain Christian devoutness whatever the outcome.

Blade · Jan 31, 2003

Originally posted by Julie
You must be a better Christian than Paul then.

Did you know (messenger) Greek:"angelos" translated "angel" 179 times and "messenger" 7 times. It is never translated "disease" or "physical infirmity" and never means any such thing. The simple explanation of the thorn in the flesh is that an angel of Satan, one of the spirit beings which fell with him, followed Paul and buffeted him when he was tempted to become exalted. Paul lists in 2Co 11:23-27 some of the things that this angel caused him to go through to keep him humble. There is not a disease in the whole list. Paul's thron must be understood in the same sense as Nu 33:55; Eze 28:24; Ho 2:6 where the same Greek word "skolops" thron is found. Buffet greek:"kolaphizo" to cuff; to box on the ear.

Just trying to help

SpiritPsalmist · Jan 31, 2003

Originally posted by Blade
Pleases God? Well the word says "with out faith it is impossible to please God." There is no "TYPE FAITH" here just faith. Go back (not that you did'nt ) and read the 4 books, All the times Jesus healed. You will find him saying ALOT "your faith made you whole". You have to keep your faith up all the time. You can NEVER stop exercising your faith. Cancer works 24 hours a day, it never sleeps just keeps working. Most people wait untill somthing bad happens and then try to believe. You can not look at someone else and say "see what about them?" because you and I have no idea what they believe and say when there alone with God. I have and had a family member who had cancer and all the time he would say God is gona heal him. Yet when I listened to him down the road (weeks later) he keep saying God was never gona heal him. What does the bible say about not believeing? Let not that man think he will receive anything from God. He was like a ship up and down up and down. Yet his friends never heard him say God would not heal him all they heard was "Gods gona heal me". There could be so many things in a persons life that can stop God from answering. How about unforogivness? Jesus said if you don't for give how can your father for give you. So many things. Me I always ask a person that is sick "what can you believe God can to for you". Now this is just one small example. I can give you hundreds of examples that God has done for me, does it make me better? more holy? NO. I believe the word. If he said it he will do it.

I agree.  And there are things we can do to increase our faith or to destroy our faith.

We can increase it by choosing to not listen (depend) on what the world says about the problem.  If the doctor says you have cancer, you can do what your doctor advises but don't believe that he/she is the final authority on it.  God is the final authority. 

If you want to be healed you want to stand on what God says about your sickness and stay away from everyone that will tell you every horror story under the sun.  About their Aunt Suzy's, friends, sisters, daughters, best friend had cancer and they died anyway.  Believe me, the horror stories will come out of the woodwork, out of the mouths of complete strangers.

If we want to destroy faith we listen to all the tales and take on the fears the tales create.  Then we're full of fear, a spirit which God did give us and start believing that we have only 3 days to live.

If it's God's time for you to go, then it's God's time for you to go.  But no-where in scripture does it say that God chooses sickness to call His children home.  NOWHERE!

Blade · Jan 31, 2003

Originally posted by Quaffer
I agree.  And there are things we can do to increase our faith or to destroy our faith.

We can increase it by choosing to not listen (depend) on what the world says about the problem.  If the doctor says you have cancer, you can do what your doctor advises but don't believe that he/she is the final authority on it.  God is the final authority. 

If you want to be healed you want to stand on what God says about your sickness and stay away from everyone that will tell you every horror story under the sun.  About their Aunt Suzy's, friends, sisters, daughters, best friend had cancer and they died anyway.  Believe me, the horror stories will come out of the woodwork, out of the mouths of complete strangers.

If we want to destroy faith we listen to all the tales and take on the fears the tales create.  Then we're full of fear, a spirit which God did give us and start believing that we have only 3 days to live.

If it's God's time for you to go, then it's God's time for you to go.  But no-where in scripture does it say that God chooses sickness to call His children home.  NOWHERE!

So true. Just maybe God had a reason when he said basically " keep my word in front of you all the time and don't let it depart out of your mouth." Doubt is not from God.

In Matt 15:22-27 where a woman (dog in those days, not of the Isreal) wanted Jesus to heal her daughter who had a devil. But Jesus said " I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel". But she worshipped him and said help me. He said "it is not meet (right, good, proper) to take the children's bread and to cast it to dogs." Jews were the 1st childern of the kingdom (Mt 8:12) The bread refers to the benefits that the Messiah was to bring to them, which included salvation for the body, soul and from sin, sickness, demons and satanic powers. These are family rights, legal rights, promised rights, human rights, divine rights and redemptive rights of all childern of God. Now the women acknowledged her position as undeserving and without legal covenant rights to the children's bread, yet she used the Lord's own words concerning dogs as grounds for further claim for healing. Even dogs have some rights-rights to the crumbs that the master throws away and would give to them. Jesus said "O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. What I am trying to say is Jesus came 1st for the Jews and if she would have just left she would have got nothing. If Jesus said YES to her back then when she had a right to nothing do you not think he would say yes today to you who have all of the same rights now. 

dignitized · Jan 31, 2003

Originally posted by Blade
Pleases God? Well the word says "with out faith it is impossible to please God." There is no "TYPE FAITH" here just faith.

 

Blade there are many types of faith.  There is saving faith, honest faith, misplaced faith, faith in self, faith in the world, faith in  money . . . does faith in money please God?  nope.  To say even imply that one can come up with faith turns that "faith" into a work.  If it comes of your own efforts it is no longer a faith please to God but a faith of works.

 

The scriptures refer time and again to suffereing and affiction as being beneficial to us as individauls.  If you are not willing to suffer a little of pain and affoiction in return for the pain and death Christ suffered for us, what kind of walk with God do you have?  DO you only walk with God in the good times when things go well and you are healthy?  what happens when out of no where, after serving teh Lord faithfully for years with no shadow of doubt you come down with cancer. WHat then if God chooses - cause being God he is allowed to do that - NOT to heal you . . . what then?  WIll you curse God?  Or will you accept it as God's will?

Blade · Jan 31, 2003

Originally posted by Br. Max
 

Blade there are many types of faith.  There is saving faith, honest faith, misplaced faith, faith in self, faith in the world, faith in  money . . . does faith in money please God?  nope.  To say even imply that one can come up with faith turns that "faith" into a work.  If it comes of your own efforts it is no longer a faith please to God but a faith of works.

 

The scriptures refer time and again to suffereing and affiction as being beneficial to us as individauls.  If you are not willing to suffer a little of pain and affoiction in return for the pain and death Christ suffered for us, what kind of walk with God do you have?  DO you only walk with God in the good times when things go well and you are healthy?  what happens when out of no where, after serving teh Lord faithfully for years with no shadow of doubt you come down with cancer. WHat then if God chooses - cause being God he is allowed to do that - NOT to heal you . . . what then?  WIll you curse God?  Or will you accept it as God's will?

Ok I see what I said. If its ok let us go back to help me What do you mean "As if we can WORK up the type of faith that pleases god?"
I really just wanted to say "with out faith we can not pease God." So when we have faith we are pleaseing God.

dignitized · Jan 31, 2003

You are right that without faith we cannot please God but - what kind of faith is pleasing to God?

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