Does faith justify? (I have an answer, but would like input.

[ozso]

I wouldn't want to see a look of disappointment on Jesus face because all my works burned up.

 

[coronawatching]

The Bible tells us to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. Are "faith only, not works" adherents trying to ease their consciences when it comes to particular sins in their lives?

Luke 12: 45-46

45 But suppose the servant says to himself, ‘My master is taking a long time in coming,’ and he then begins to beat the other servants, both men and women, and to eat and drink and get drunk. 46 The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the unbelievers.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The term "Works of faith" is another oxymoron, by Romans 4:5.

Yes, I agree that both Jesus in the 4 gospels, as well as James was teaching that faith require works. That is not surprising since Jesus was born under the Law, so he cannot possibly be preaching Romans 4:5.

It's only in the but now time period that Romans 4:5 applies.

Yes, Jesus' earthly ministry was during a time period whereby the Old Covenant was in effect. Surely the New Covenant did not officially begin until Christ's death upon the cross. But while the Old was predominatly in effect during Christ's ministry, it was also decaying, and waxing old [i.e. it was begining to fade away].

Hebrews 8:13 says,

“In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.”​

Here it is the same verse with my commentary to the text:
(Note: Anything in blue brackets is my commentary to the text; And certain words are underlined to show what those words are saying).

[At the Lord's supper, the night before Christ's death upon the cross]:

“In that [When] he [Jesus] saith [said the words], [“]A new covenant,[”]
[What Christ meant was that]
he hath [has] made the first old [the first covenant old]. Now that [old covenant] which decayeth [decays] and waxeth [waxes] old is ready to vanish away.” (Hebrews 8:13).​

“Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.” (Luke 22:20).​

The words “new covenant” and “new testament” are synonmous. So Hebrews 8:13 refers to when Jesus spoke the words “new testament” to His disciples at the Lord's supper, He was trying to let His disciples know that the first covenant was old and it was decaying and waxing old and it was ready to vanish away (i.e. It would vanish away the next day with His death upon the cross). For the New Covenant began with Christ's death. But the point I wanted to stress here is that the Old was decaying and waxing old. We can see this by Jesus making changes to the Old Law even before the cross.

Jesus clearly was making changes to the Law (even before the cross):
(Which means He was not teaching primarily Old Covenant, but New Covenant):

The Old Way says:
"Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth"
(Matthew 5:38 cf. Exodus 21:23-25).

The New Way (by Jesus) says:
"But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also." (Matthew 5:39).


The Old Way says:
"Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment" (Matthew 5:21 cf. Numbers 35:30-32).

The New Way (by Jesus) says:
"But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire." (Matthew 5:22).


The Old Way says:
"Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:" (Matthew 5:34 cf. Numbers 30:1-2, Deuteronomy 23:21).

The New Way (by Jesus) says:
34 "But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:
35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.
36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.
37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil." (Matthew 5:34-37).


The Old Way says:
"And of thy mercy cut off mine enemies, and destroy all them that afflict my soul: for I am thy servant." (Psalms 143:12).

"And the city shall be accursed, even it, and all that are therein, to the LORD: only Rahab the harlot shall live, she and all that are with her in the house, because she hid the messengers that we sent." (Joshua 6:17).

"And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword." (Joshua 6:21).

16 "But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth:
17 But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee" (Deuteronomy 20:16-17).

"They did not destroy the nations, concerning whom the LORD commanded them" (Psalms 106:34).

The New Way (by Jesus) says:
"But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;" (Matthew 5:44).

Note: Yes, I am aware that the Old Way (Old Testament) also teaches to love one's enemies (Exodus 23:4-5) (Proverbs 25:21), but this was in context to their own Israelite people, and not pagan nations. Pagan nations were to be destroyed when God commanded the Israelites to destroy them. But Jesus taught a radically different way. Love your enemies, and do good to them that hate you, and to pray for those who persecute you.


The Old Way says:
20 "But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel:
21 Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the harlot in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.
22 If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shalt thou put away evil from Israel." (Deuteronomy 22:20-22).

4 "They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?" (John 8:4-5).

The New Way (by Jesus) says:
"He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. " (John 8:7).


Even after the cross, there were changes being made:

The Old Covenant says this about circumcision:
"And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant." (Genesis 17:14).

Yet, the New Covenant says this about circumcision:
"Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing."
(Galatians 5:2).


The Old Covenant says this about the Sabbath:
32 "And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.
33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.
34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.
35 And the Lord said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.
36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses." (Numbers 15:32-36).

Yet, the New Covenant says this about the Sabbath:
"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:" (Colossians 2:16).

So it appears things have changed.

This makes sense because again, Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed.

"For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law."
(Hebrews 7:12).

“For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.”
(John 1:17).

Jesus said,
"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil." (Matthew 5:17).

Jesus came not to abolish the Law (in the sense of destroying all forms of Law), but Jesus came to fulfill the Law (i.e. to nail to the cross those ordinances that were against us [like the Old Covenant ceremonial laws], and Jesus came to give us a more fulfilled and perfect way of obeying God via the commands that come directly from Him and His followers). For Jesus offered a more perfect way of loving God, and loving our neighbor (Which of course is only possible via if we are first saved by God's grace through faith).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I wouldn't want to see a look of disappointment on Jesus face because all my works burned up.

In regards to the parable of the building,
and it's materials in 1 Corinthians 3:

Paul says before the parable, "you are God's building."
So we are the materials that make up the building.

The work is not referring to just any kind of general actions of a believer like good fruit (any kind of good fruit) and evil fruit (sin). The work is referring to those believers we bring to the faith and their eternal status with God (i.e. what kind of building materials are they made up of). The Parable is talking about Paul's work (Which is the Corinthians in this instance).

I believe Paul and the other apostles are a part of the foundation with Christ being the chief cornerstone or the ultimate baseline foundation (Ephesians 2:20), and that Paul's work in the gospel are the result of the Corinthians being initially saved by the gospel. However, Paul is now concerned that his labor in the gospel (concerning them) is now in vain because the Corinthians are now working the sins of strife and envying (Note: Paul condemns the sins of strife and envying when writing to the Galatians (Galatians 5:19-21). Paul says that they which do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God). In Galatians 4:11, Paul was concerned for the Galatians in that they were going back to the Old Law so as to be justified or saved. He was concerned that his labor for the gospel was in vain for the Galatians.

So the parable speaks of how his labor for the gospel (concerning the Corinthians) was now possibly in vain for them, too.

#1. The chief cornerstone foundation = Jesus Christ.
#2. Built as a part of the foundation on top of Christ = The apostles (including Paul, etc.) (Ephesians 2:20).
#3. The actual building materials of the tower or building = God's people (In this instance it would be the Corinthians).
#4. The Corinthians would be like: Wood, hay, and stubble in this particular point in time within their life while they abided in their sins of strife, and envying (Which are sins that will cause a person to not inherit the Kingdom of God).
Wood, hay, and stubble are not materials that could survive a fire.
#5. Paul (the soul winner, and builder of the gospel and builder upon the foundation of Jesus Christ) would be saved through the fire (despite his work - i.e. the Corinthians being his work) would be burned up because of their sins. For Paul then says that if any man defiles the temple, God will destroy them (Meaning: God will destroy the Corinthians if they do not repent of their sins). We are the temple of God. Our bodies are the temples of God. If we as believers defile our temples by sin, God will destroy us (i.e. condemn us).​

This is what I believe the parable is saying. The works of Paul that will be burned are the Corinthians if they do not repent of their sins of strife and envy (1 Corinthians 3:3). The Corinthians at this point in time are not saved and they will be burned up in the fire and destroyed by God if they don't seek forgiveness with the Lord and turn from their sins of strife and envy. Paul, the apostles, or the gospel preacher is the one who will be saved through fire if his work (the Corinthians) is burned up (on the account of their justifying sin). The parable is not talking about how a believer can sin and still be saved as long as they have a belief on Jesus. It's actually teaching the exact opposite of that. One cannot build sin as a work upon the foundation of Jesus Christ. Jesus did not advocate sin, and neither did He teach that a person can continue to sin and still be saved.

Yes, we are initially and foundationally saved by God's grace, but believers cannot justify sin, and they have to be fruitful for their Lord and live holy as a part of the Sanctification Process.
For Hebrews 12:14-15 says,

“14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness,
without which no man shall see the Lord:
15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;”

 

[Yarddog]

Does faith justify?
(Note: I am not asking because I don't know the answer).

Some say that faith does not justify.

However, Scripture says we a man is justified by faith.

“Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.”
(Romans 3:28).

“Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:”
(Romans 5:1).

“Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.” (Galatians 2:16).

“Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.” (Galatians 3:24).

Abraham was justified by faith. But just what is faith?

The Law did not exist before Moses was given it. Before that, men of faith were guided by God's Spirit. Jesus fulfilled the law and we are as Abraham was. Guided by God's Spirit. We are to look within to the Spirit which God gives his children through baptism and do what that Spirit guides us to do.

Our faith which be shown by what we do. Will we do God's work or our own works?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The Bible tells us to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. Are "faith only, not works" adherents trying to ease their consciences when it comes to particular sins in their lives?

Luke 12: 45-46

45 But suppose the servant says to himself, ‘My master is taking a long time in coming,’ and he then begins to beat the other servants, both men and women, and to eat and drink and get drunk. 46 The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the unbelievers.

I agree. We not only need to have faith, but we need to have the “work of faith” that Paul talks about in 1 Thessalonians 1:3, and 2 Thessalonians 1:11. For faith without works is dead indeed (James 2:17). For we are justified by works and not by faith alone (James 2:24). But many get tripped on this point because of Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 4:3-5, and Titus 3:5, etc.; But what many fail to understand is that Paul was referring to the “works of the Law of Moses” (and trying to be justified by the Old Law without God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ) (i.e. Law Alone Salvationism without God's grace). We first need to be saved by God's grace through faith. For without His grace, we would all be doomed. Our past slate of sin needs to be wiped out. This can only be done by seeking forgiveness with Jesus and by believing that Jesus died for our sins, He was buried, and He was risen three days later on our behalf for salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4). But from that point we need to continue in the Sanctification Process (which is the next step in God's plan of salvation) (i.e. to live holy by God's power). For 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 says that God has chosen us to salvation by the Sanctification of the Spirit, and a belief of the truth (faith), which is a call of the gospel. In other words, the gospel calls us. Imagine an old phone ringing on your table that says, “the gospel.”

You pick up the phone...

and you hear a voice on the end of the other line says, “God has chosen us to salvation through Sanctification of the Spirit and a belief in the truth.”

Here is the verse:

“...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through
sanctification of the Spirit
and belief of the truth:
Whereunto he called you by our gospel,...” (2 Thessalonians 2:13-14).
​

The question is: Will people pick up the phone and heed the call of the gospel.
The gospel is 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, but it calls us to do things like continuing in God's plan of salvation through the “sanctification of the Spirit” (living holy by God's power), and a belief of the truth (i.e. continuing to believe in His Word).

For we all need to continue in our walk with the Holy Spirit and truly love and believe the truth of God's Holy Word by faith.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Abraham was justified by faith. But just what is faith?

The Law did not exist before Moses was given it. Before that, men of faith were guided by God's Spirit. Jesus fulfilled the law and we are as Abraham was. Guided by God's Spirit. We are to look within to the Spirit which God gives his children through baptism and do what that Spirit guides us to do.

Our faith which be shown by what we do. Will we do God's work or our own works?

Faith comes by hearing, and hearing God's Word (Romans 10:17).
Today, we have God's Word that tells us to seek forgiveness with the Lord Jesus Christ (Romans 10:13), and believe that He died for our sins, He was buried, and He was risen three days later on our behalf for salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4), and to answer the call of the gospel, which is to continue in God's plan of salvation through... the sanctification of the Spirit, and a belief of the truth (2 Thessalonians 2:13). This means, we follow Jesus and the words of His apostles. This is faith. We follow the Holy Bible. We follow God's Word by faith.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I agree. We not only need to have faith, but we need to have the “work of faith” that Paul talks about in 1 Thessalonians 1:3, and 2 Thessalonians 1:11. For faith without works is dead indeed (James 2:17). For we are justified by works and not by faith alone (James 2:24). But many get tripped on this point because of Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 4:3-5, and Titus 3:5, etc.; But what many fail to understand is that Paul was referring to the “works of the Law of Moses” (and trying to be justified by the Old Law without God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ) (i.e. Law Alone Salvationism without God's grace). We first need to be saved by God's grace through faith. For without His grace, we would all be doomed. Our past slate of sin needs to be wiped out. This can only be done by seeking forgiveness with Jesus and by believing that Jesus died for our sins, He was buried, and He was risen three days later on our behalf for salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4). But from that point we need to continue in the Sanctification Process (which is the next step in God's plan of salvation) (i.e. to live holy by God's power). For 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 says that God has chosen us to salvation by the Sanctification of the Spirit, and a belief of the truth (faith), which is a call of the gospel. In other words, the gospel calls us. Imagine an old phone ringing on your table that says, “the gospel.”

You pick up the phone...

and you hear a voice on the end of the other line says, “God has chosen us to salvation through Sanctification of the Spirit and a belief in the truth.”

Here is the verse:

“...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through
sanctification of the Spirit
and belief of the truth:
Whereunto he called you by our gospel,...” (2 Thessalonians 2:13-14).
​

The question is: Will people pick up the phone and heed the call of the gospel.
The gospel is 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, but it calls us to do things like continuing in God's plan of salvation through the “sanctification of the Spirit” (living holy by God's power), and a belief of the truth (i.e. continuing to believe in His Word).

For we all need to continue in our walk with the Holy Spirit and truly love and believe the truth of God's Holy Word by faith.

I am curious where it states in the second covenant that the seventh day Sabbath was "ceremonial" and not include. I see that in your tagline.

The second covenant stays Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

God's laws are found here Exodus 20. God does not say, I will write my laws in our mind and hearts expect the 4th commandment. Basically you are advising people to "forget" the one commandment God asked us to remember.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I'm not quite understanding this. Are you saying there are a number of unforgivable sins? Like if Paul had committed a mortal sin he would be in hell right now?

There are technically three kinds of sins.

1. Mortal sin - These are any kind of sins that leads to spiritual death (like murder, hate, adultery, theft, idolatry, etc.) unless one confesses such sins to the Lord Jesus Christ and they seek to battle in overcoming these kinds of sins in this life. The parable prodigal son in Luke 15:11-32, and James 5:19-20 shows that a believer can go from spiritual life, to spiritual death, and then back to spiritual life again. In other words, a believer can stumble into a life of sin temporarily, and be dead spiritually for a time, and then they can later come back to the faith and salvation again by rededicating their life back to Christ.
2. Non-mortal sin - Any sins that leads to punishment in this earthly life, but does not necessarily mean one is abiding in spiritual death. Examples would be the first two sins mentioned in Matthew 5:22, 1 Peter 3:21, 1 John 5:16-17, etc.
3. Unforgivable sins - These would be sins that are not ever forgivable. These would be like speaking bad words against the Holy Spirit after being born again spiritually, worshiping the beast, committing suicide and staying dead, rejecting Jesus Christ as one's Savior after one is been born again spiritually.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I am curious where it states in the second covenant that the seventh day Sabbath was "ceremonial" and not include. I see that in your tagline.

The second covenant stays Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

God's laws are found here Exodus 20. God does not say, I will write my laws in our mind and hearts expect the 4th commandment. Basically you are advising people to "forget" the one commandment God asked us to remember.

#1. There is no Saturday Sabbath command given to us in the pages of the New Testament.
#2. There is no sin listed as breaking the Saturday Sabbath listed by Paul, or John, etc. when they list various sins like murder, hate, adultery, theft, etc.
#3. Colossians 2:16 is saying that we are not allow others (like Jews or Sabbath day keeping Christians) to judge us in regards to keeping the Sabbaths, holy days, and dietary laws. The Saturday Sabbath is a part of the Sabbaths.
#4. In Romans 14:5, Paul says some regard all days the same, and some esteem one day over another. Paul does not say that one must keep the Saturday Sabbath, but he tells them to let them be convinced in their own mind.
#5. Paul says, to the Galatians,
“Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.” (Galatians 4:10-11). This suggests that the keeping of the ceremonial laws of the Old Covenant was being kept by the Galatians, and Paul was afraid for them spiritually by their doing this.

As for Hebrews 8:10:

Which laws is this referring to?
I believe it is referring to the New Covenant (New Testament) Laws.
For Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed.

Side Note:

Please keep in mind that I believe the Saturday Sabbath still exists as a calendar day in God's eyes, but I believe the command to keep the Saturday Sabbath has been nailed to the cross (Colossians 2:14). For Isaiah talks about how the Saturday Sabbath is an ordinance, and Colossians 2:14 says the ordinances have been blotted out and Christ nailed them to the cross.

 

[Yarddog]

Faith comes by hearing, and hearing God's Word (Romans 10:17).
Today, we have God's Word that tells us to seek forgiveness with the Lord Jesus Christ (Romans 10:13), and believe that He died for our sins, He was buried, and He was risen three days later on our behalf for salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4), and to answer the call of the gospel, which is to continue in God's plan of salvation through... the sanctification of the Spirit, and a belief of the truth (2 Thessalonians 2:13). This means, we follow Jesus and the words of His apostles. This is faith. We follow the Holy Bible. We follow God's Word by faith.

And the only way to follow the Word of God, Jesus, is through the Spirit that God gives his children.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

And the only way to follow the Word of God, Jesus, is through the Spirit that God gives his children.

Indeed. Galatians 5:16 says, “This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.” But we have to understand that the Holy Scriptures (i.e. the Bible) is inspired by the Holy Spirit (2 Timothy 3:16). So if we obey the instructions in the New Testament, we are obeying and walking in the Holy Spirit because those instructions were inspired by the Spirit.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

For example, a person can ask God for walking in the Holy Spirit all they like. While God can answer this prayer, if that believer ignores their instructions (Which are Spirit inspired) in the Holy Bible, they are not exactly playing ball on God's terms. They are only going so far.

 

[ozso]

The Bible tells us to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. Are "faith only, not works" adherents trying to ease their consciences when it comes to particular sins in their lives?

Luke 12: 45-46

45 But suppose the servant says to himself, ‘My master is taking a long time in coming,’ and he then begins to beat the other servants, both men and women, and to eat and drink and get drunk. 46 The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the unbelievers.

I believe the concern of the Free Grace people is the idea of a 50/50 salvation. 50% the blood of Jesus and 50% our works. That Jesus dying for our sins only covers half of our salvation and our works makes up the other half. Which they believe is what the Lordship Salvation people are teaching as far as I can tell.

Now this is where it gets confusing. John MacArthur is probably the best known teacher of Lordship Salvation, and has been accused by the Free Grace people of teaching that salvation is a combination of grace plus works.

However, I heard John MacArthur denounce believing in a salvation that is a combination of grace plus works. Saying that is false Christianity teaching a false gospel that is to be cursed.

When I heard him say that, I was astounded, because that's what he himself has been accused of.

What John MacArthur said can be heard @3:29 HERE

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I believe the concern of the Free Grace people is the idea of a 50/50 salvation. 50% the blood of Jesus and 50% our works. That Jesus dying for our sins only covers half of our salvation and our works makes up the other half. Which they believe is what the Lordship Salvation people are teaching as far as I can tell.

Now this is where it gets confusing. John MacArthur is probably the best known teacher of Lordship Salvation, and has been accused by the Free Grace people of teaching that salvation is a combination of grace plus works.

However, I heard John MacArthur denounce believing in a salvation that is a combination of grace plus works. Saying that is false Christianity teaching a false gospel that is to be cursed.

When I heard him say that, I was astounded, because that's what he himself has been accused of.

What John MacArthur said can be heard @3:29 HERE

I am aware of John MacArthur's teaching for a long time now.
John MacArthur (A Calvinist) teaches that a believer can sin and still be saved.

Some Calvinists will boast in "Lordship Salvation" that is promoted by John MacArthur, but I believe this is a Trojan horse. John MacArthur does not really believe we must live holy exactly (as a part of salvation).

John MacArthur also teaches that a believer can commit suicide and still be saved.

He says, I quote: "At the trial, MacArthur, 45, is seeking to clarify his church’s teaching on suicide. “It’s not only a sin, it’s illegal,” he says. “But we teach that even if a believer takes his own life, the Lord will still receive him into His presence.”

Source:
Fundamentalist Clergymen Face Charges of 'Malpractice' When a Parishioner Turns to Suicide

John MacArthur says that a person can take the mark of the beast and they can still be saved afterwards. Listen to this audio clip by him here:

https://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/audio/macarthur-take-mark.mp3

John MacArthur says, ".. sin does not result in spiritual death for the believer ... (The MacArthur Study Bible, p. 1927, comment on James 1:15)"

Also, check out this video on John MacArthur teaching that we can sin and still be saved: (Important Note: Turn down sound at the beginning of the video just in case you may have sensitive hearing like me):

 

[Yarddog]

Indeed. Galatians 5:16 says, “This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.” But we have to understand that the Holy Scriptures (i.e. the Bible) is inspired by the Holy Spirit (2 Timothy 3:16). So if we obey the instructions in the New Testament, we are obeying and walking in the Holy Spirit because those instructions were inspired by the Spirit.

If is always a big word.
If thou doest well, shall it not be lifted up? and if thou doest not well, sin coucheth at the door: and unto thee shall be its desire, but do thou rule over it.
Genesis:4:7

Cain, an example of people following their own spirit, though he heard God's voice, failed to follow the Spirit which led Abel to bring an acceptable offering. Cain filled the ground which refers to man's works and Abel
was a keeper of sheep. We can see the Jews and Jesus in these verses, for Jesus tended to God's sheep.

The Jews killed God's Shepherd because they didn't follow God's Spirit but thought they followed the scriptures. They didn't do well and God has cursed the ground they work.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I believe the concern of the Free Grace people is the idea of a 50/50 salvation. 50% the blood of Jesus and 50% our works. That Jesus dying for our sins only covers half of our salvation and our works makes up the other half. Which they believe is what the Lordship Salvation people are teaching as far as I can tell.

Now this is where it gets confusing. John MacArthur is probably the best known teacher of Lordship Salvation, and has been accused by the Free Grace people of teaching that salvation is a combination of grace plus works.

However, I heard John MacArthur denounce believing in a salvation that is a combination of grace plus works. Saying that is false Christianity teaching a false gospel that is to be cursed.

When I heard him say that, I was astounded, because that's what he himself has been accused of.

What John MacArthur said can be heard @3:29 HERE

God's grace is not a license for immorality.

“For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.” (Jude 1:4) (NIV).​

God's grace teaches us to deny ungodliness, and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world.

“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;” (Titus 2:11-12).​

In fact, the reason why Jesus gave Himself for us was for the purpose that He might redeem us from all iniquity and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

“Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.” (Titus 2:14).​

For Paul says that a person can deny God by a lack of works.

“They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.” (Titus 1:16).​

So how do we reconcile verses like Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 4:3-5, and Titus 3:5? We have to understand that Paul is referring to the 1st aspect of salvation (Which is being saved by God's grace through without the deeds of the Law). We have to understand that Paul was trying to attack in being saved by the Old Law or works of the Old Law (like trying to be saved by keeping the ceremonial laws like the Saturday Sabbath, circumcision, etc.) while one was ignoring salvation via by God's grace. In essense, Paul was attacking Law Alone Salvationism without God's grace. Paul was not denying the second aspect of salvation, which is Sanctification. For Paul said we are created unto Christ Jesus for good works (Ephesians 2:10). The works Paul is condeming in Ephesians 2:9 is Man Directed Works Alone Salvationism without God's grace. Paul is not attacking the “work of faith” of which he mentions in 1 Thessalonians 1:3, and 2 Thessalonians 1:11. For faith without works is dead (James 2:17). For we are justified by works and not by faith alone (James 2:24).

 

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If is always a big word.
If thou doest well, shall it not be lifted up? and if thou doest not well, sin coucheth at the door: and unto thee shall be its desire, but do thou rule over it.
Genesis:4:7

Cain, an example of people following their own spirit, though he heard God's voice, failed to follow the Spirit which led Abel to bring an acceptable offering. Cain filled the ground which refers to man's works and Abel
was a keeper of sheep. We can see the Jews and Jesus in these verses, for Jesus tended to God's sheep.

The Jews killed God's Shepherd because they didn't follow God's Spirit but thought they followed the scriptures. They didn't do well and God has cursed the ground they work.

No. the Jews did not kill Jesus because they followed the Scriptures. Jesus said that the Pharisees ignored the weightier matters of the Law like love, faith, justice, and mercy (See: Matthew 23:23, and Luke 11:42).

 

[ozso]

Indeed. Galatians 5:16 says, “This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.” But we have to understand that the Holy Scriptures (i.e. the Bible) is inspired by the Holy Spirit (2 Timothy 3:16). So if we obey the instructions in the New Testament, we are obeying and walking in the Holy Spirit because those instructions were inspired by the Spirit.

But how well do we have to do in not fulfilling the lust of the flesh and and obeying? The pragmatist in me sees that as zero fulfilling the lust of the flesh and total obedience. But of course that's not possible. Paul says of himself:

For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. Romans 7:14-20

Now what this tells me is that Paul himself had the same struggle I've had. Not doing what I should be doing and doing what I shouldn't be doing. The sins of omission and commission. But the keyword is hating that happening. I'm glad that Paul wrote that, because while it doesn't make me feel comfortable about my stumbling sinning, I don't wallow in guilt and shame over it.

 

[ozso]

I am aware of John MacArthur's teaching for a long time now.
John MacArthur (A Calvinist) teaches that a believer can sin and still be saved.

Some Calvinists will boast in "Lordship Salvation" that is promoted by John MacArthur, but I believe this is a Trojan horse. John MacArthur does not really believe we must live holy exactly (as a part of salvation).

John MacArthur also teaches that a believer can commit suicide and still be saved.

He says, I quote: "At the trial, MacArthur, 45, is seeking to clarify his church’s teaching on suicide. “It’s not only a sin, it’s illegal,” he says. “But we teach that even if a believer takes his own life, the Lord will still receive him into His presence.”

Source:
Fundamentalist Clergymen Face Charges of 'Malpractice' When a Parishioner Turns to Suicide

John MacArthur says that a person can take the mark of the beast and they can still be saved afterwards. Listen to this audio clip by him here:

https://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/audio/macarthur-take-mark.mp3

John MacArthur says, ".. sin does not result in spiritual death for the believer ... (The MacArthur Study Bible, p. 1927, comment on James 1:15)"

Also, check out this video on John MacArthur teaching that we can sin and still be saved: (Important Note: Turn down sound at the beginning of the video just in case you may have sensitive hearing like me):

Well Steve Gregg is an Armenian who believes you can lose your salvation and he also teaches Lordship Salvation.

I thought you were a Lordship Salvation person, but it sounds like you're into something else. I mean are you saying Christians have to live completely holy and obedient lives? And if so, I have to wonder how you yourself manage that.