Does Colossians 2:16 refer to weekly Sabbaths?

klutedavid said:

There you have it LGW.

Food and drink, the Colossians text says nothing about burnt offerings or grain offerings.

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And it says nothing about abolishing food and drink

BobRyan said:

And it says nothing about abolishing food and drink

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Your trying to tell me that the gentile church at Colassae had a solid knowledge of the Old Testament?

Your interpretation of Colossians 2:16 requires that someone knows the Old Testament. Not even the Jews in the first century were fluent in the Old Testament.

According to you the Colossians would know exactly what Paul was referring to by 'food and drink'?

klutedavid said:

Your trying to tell me that the gentile church at Colassae had a solid knowledge of the Old Testament?

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Acts 17:11 the non-Christians "studied the scriptures daily to SEE IF those things spoken to them by the Apostle Paul were so". We call it "sola scriptura" testing.

It is gentiles requesting "more gospel preaching" on "the next Sabbath" in Acts 13.

Paul leaves Timothy in the gentile church of Ephesus according to 1 Timothy 1 and in 2 Tim 3:16 Paul tells Timothy that his doctrine should come from "making stuff up"?? or "from scripture"? which is it in 2Tim 3:16. (I'll give you 3 guesses)

In the NT - the evangelism of Christians proceeds 'sola scriptura' perhaps you've heard of it.

Your interpretation of Colossians 2:16 requires that someone knows the Old Testament.

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They called it "scripture" see 2 Tim 3:16... See Gal 4:27 to find out how gentile churches were instructed from scripture -- "It is written" quotes "scripture".

BobRyan said:

Acts 17:11 the non-Christians "studied the scriptures daily to SEE IF those things spoken to them by the Apostle Paul were so".

The evangelism of Christians proceeds 'sola scriptura' perhaps you've heard of it.



They called it "scripture" see 2 Tim 3:16... See Gal 4:27 to find out how gentile churches were instructed from scripture -- "It is written" quotes "scripture".


Not even the Jews in the first century were fluent in the Old Testament.

According to you the Colossians would know exactly what Paul was referring to by 'food and drink'?

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The Bereans had to read the O.T. to check what Paul was saying because they did not know the O.T.

The Colossians like the Bereans were ignorant of the O.T, they would not have known that Paul was referring to some festival pattern listed in Ezekiel. You assume far too much and your interpretation borders on the ridiculous.

The Colossians like the rest of the Gentile world were not raised in the scripture. You can't expect anyone in Colossai to see through the text (Colossians 2:16) and see a reference to the scrolls of Ezekiel.

I don't know how you accept this absurd claim?

klutedavid said:

Your trying to tell me that the gentile church at Colassae had a solid knowledge of the Old Testament?

Click to expand...

Acts 17:11 the non-Christians "studied the scriptures daily to SEE IF those things spoken to them by the Apostle Paul were so". We call it "sola scriptura" testing.

It is gentiles requesting "more gospel preaching" on "the next Sabbath" in Acts 13.

Paul leaves Timothy in the gentile church of Ephesus according to 1 Timothy 1 and in 2 Tim 3:16 Paul tells Timothy that his doctrine should come from "making stuff up"?? or "from scripture"? which is it in 2Tim 3:16. (I'll give you 3 guesses)

In the NT - the evangelism of Christians proceeds 'sola scriptura' perhaps you've heard of it.

Your interpretation of Colossians 2:16 requires that someone knows the Old Testament.

Click to expand...

They called it "scripture" see 2 Tim 3:16... See Gal 4:27 to find out how gentile churches were instructed from scripture -- "It is written" quotes "scripture".

klutedavid said:

I don't know how you accept this absurd claim?

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Read more Bible -- less creative writing.

Paul leaves Timothy in the gentile church of Ephesus according to 1 Timothy 1 and in 2 Tim 3:16 Paul tells Timothy that his doctrine should come from "making stuff up"?? or "from scripture"? which is it in 2Tim 3:16. (I'll give you 3 guesses)

In the NT - the evangelism of Christians proceeds 'sola scriptura' perhaps you've heard of it.


They called it "scripture" see 2 Tim 3:16... See Gal 4:27 to find out how gentile churches were instructed from scripture -- "It is written" quotes "scripture".

klutedavid said:

The Colossians like the rest of the Gentile world were not raised in the scripture.

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yeah -- also true of the gentile church of Ephesus and Galatia above as I pointed out. Are you trying to make my point or yours? Are you even reading the posts?

klutedavid said:

The Bereans had to read the O.T. to check what Paul was saying

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They certainly did .. we call it "Sola Scriptura testing" -- perhaps you heard of it.

BTW the reason we do that is NOT because "we don't know anything about scripture" as you seem to have wildly imagined.

klutedavid said:

The Colossians like the Bereans were ignorant of the O.T,

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You are "quoting you" again - and as I pointed out - Paul is referring the gentile church of Galatia to "scripture" in Gal 4... so you simply ignore the point?? How is that solving it for you?

Col 2 is not about deleting the Bible - it is about not "making stuff up". We already saw that - here #1

BobRyan said:

Paul leaves Timothy in the gentile church of Ephesus according to 1 Timothy 1 and in 2 Tim 3:16 Paul tells Timothy that his doctrine should come from "making stuff up"?? or "from scripture"? which is it in 2Tim 3:16. (I'll give you 3 guesses)

In the NT - the evangelism of Christians proceeds 'sola scriptura' perhaps you've heard of it.


They called it "scripture" see 2 Tim 3:16... See Gal 4:27 to find out how gentile churches were instructed from scripture -- "It is written" quotes "scripture".



yeah -- also true of the gentile church of Ephesus and Galatia above as I pointed out. Are you trying to make my point or yours? Are you even reading the posts?

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The reference to the scriptures is to the Old Testament, the New Testament was 250 years in the future. See what happens when you ignore church history!

BobRyan said:

Col 2 is not about deleting the Bible - it is about not "making stuff up". We already saw that - here #1

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So why do you make stuff up.

Calling the law, 'ceremonial law' is creative writing.

Telling Christian that they are under the law is creative writing.

Telling folk that you belong to the one true church is fanciful and creative to the extreme.

You accuse others of creative writing but no one is as creative as you.

klutedavid said:

So why do you make stuff up.

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I don't.

why do you post false accusations?

Calling the law, 'ceremonial law' is creative writing - because we "paid attention" to the details of 1 Cor 7:19 instead of ignoring them.

Telling Christian that they are under the law is creative writing.

Telling folk that you belong to the one true church is fanciful and creative to the extreme.

You accuse others of creative writing but no one is as creative as you.

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Quoting "you" to accuse me -- not a very compelling tactic. You knew that right?

klutedavid said:

The reference to the scriptures is to the Old Testament,

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True - 1 Tim 3:16 - "ALL SCRIPTURE is given by inspiration from God AND is to be used for doctrine"

And your point?

the New Testament was 250 years in the future.

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You honestly believe nobody read what Paul was writing until 200 years after he died?

seriously??

See what happens when you ignore scripture?

BobRyan said:

Acts 17:11 the non-Christians "studied the scriptures daily to SEE IF those things spoken to them by the Apostle Paul were so". We call it "sola scriptura" testing.

It is gentiles requesting "more gospel preaching" on "the next Sabbath" in Acts 13.

Click to expand...

It isn't Christians making this request.

BobRyan said:

I don't.

why do you post false accusations?

Calling the law, 'ceremonial law' is creative writing - because we "paid attention" to the details of 1 Cor 7:19 instead of ignoring them.



Quoting "you" to accuse me -- not a very compelling tactic. You knew that right?

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Awesome defense.

BobRyan said:

True - 1 Tim 3:16 - "ALL SCRIPTURE is given by inspiration from God AND is to be used for doctrine"

And your point?



You honestly believe nobody read what Paul was writing until 200 years after he died?

seriously??

See what happens when you ignore scripture?

Click to expand...

Your point seems to be the NT isn't the Scripture.

BobRyan said:

True - 1 Tim 3:16 - "ALL SCRIPTURE is given by inspiration from God AND is to be used for doctrine"

And your point?



You honestly believe nobody read what Paul was writing until 200 years after he died?

seriously??

See what happens when you ignore scripture?

Click to expand...

My point was that the letters being written by the apostles were not all regarded as scripture in the first century. That is why Paul for example in Corinthians is pleading his case that he was a true apostle.

Paul was competing with other folk for the heart of the church in Corinth. The Corinthians were visited by other so called apostles as was the church in Galatia. Paul was in a battle trying to win the Corinthians over, I seriously doubt that Paul's letters were seen as scripture.

In fact there were a myriad of letters and speakers circulating through these early churches. To regard Paul's letters as scripture in the sense of say Isaiah or Ezekiel, is just not true.

Most certainly Luke's account of the life of Jesus was not written by an apostle, nor would anyone have regarded that account as scripture. It took time even centuries to sift through all the letters written in the first century, to construct the New Testament.

There were many letters that the early churches may have read that were not included in the New Testament. Yet some of these excluded letters were very important to some of these churches. Many churches had a form of scripture that is not the scripture you have in front of you.

BobRyan said:

True - 1 Tim 3:16 - "ALL SCRIPTURE is given by inspiration from God AND is to be used for doctrine"

And your point?



You honestly believe nobody read what Paul was writing until 200 years after he died?

seriously??

See what happens when you ignore scripture?

Click to expand...

Paul's letters were scripture in the early churches?

2 Corinthians 11:12-15
But what I am doing I will continue to do, so that I may cut off opportunity from those who desire an opportunity to be regarded just as we are in the matter about which they are boasting. For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds.

This was what the problem really was in the early churches, the false apostles had won over these Corinthians. The Corinthians were disregarding Paul to some extent.

The Corinthians were not treating Paul like an apostle at all, they most certainly did not regard Paul's letters as scripture. They actually said that Paul's letters were weighty but in person Paul was unimpressive. How could anyone even pretend that Paul's letter to the Corinthians, was regarded as scripture by the Corinthians?

klutedavid said:

Your trying to tell me that the gentile church at Colassae had a solid knowledge of the Old Testament?

Click to expand...

Acts 17:11 the non-Christians "studied the scriptures daily to SEE IF those things spoken to them by the Apostle Paul were so". We call it "sola scriptura" testing.

It is gentiles requesting "more gospel preaching" on "the next Sabbath" in Acts 13.

Paul leaves Timothy in the gentile church of Ephesus according to 1 Timothy 1 and in 2 Tim 3:16 Paul tells Timothy that his doctrine should come from "making stuff up"?? or "from scripture"? which is it in 2Tim 3:16. (I'll give you 3 guesses)

In the NT - the evangelism of Christians proceeds 'sola scriptura' perhaps you've heard of it.

Your interpretation of Colossians 2:16 requires that someone knows the Old Testament.

Click to expand...

They called it "scripture" see 2 Tim 3:16... See Gal 4:27 to find out how gentile churches were instructed from scripture -- "It is written" quotes "scripture".

klutedavid said:

I don't know how you accept this absurd claim?

Click to expand...

Read more Bible -- less creative writing.

Paul leaves Timothy in the gentile church of Ephesus according to 1 Timothy 1 and in 2 Tim 3:16 Paul tells Timothy that his doctrine should come from "making stuff up"?? or "from scripture"? which is it in 2Tim 3:16. (I'll give you 3 guesses)

In the NT - the evangelism of Christians proceeds 'sola scriptura' perhaps you've heard of it.


They called it "scripture" see 2 Tim 3:16... See Gal 4:27 to find out how gentile churches were instructed from scripture -- "It is written" quotes "scripture".

klutedavid said:

The Colossians like the rest of the Gentile world were not raised in the scripture.

Click to expand...

yeah -- also true of the gentile church of Ephesus and Galatia above as I pointed out. Are you trying to make my point or yours? Are you even reading the posts?

klutedavid said:

The Bereans had to read the O.T. to check what Paul was saying

Click to expand...

They certainly did .. we call it "Sola Scriptura testing" -- perhaps you heard of it.

BTW the reason we do that is NOT because "we don't know anything about scripture" as you seem to have wildly imagined.

klutedavid said:

The reference to the scriptures is to the Old Testament, the New Testament was 250 years in the future. See what happens when you ignore church history!

Click to expand...

klutedavid said:

My point was that the letters being written by the apostles were not all regarded as scripture in the first century. .

Click to expand...

Until you read the Bible.

2 Peter 3
14 Therefore, beloved, since you look for these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless, 15 and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, 16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.

1 Thess 2
13 For this reason we also constantly thank God that when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men, but for what it really is, the word of God, which also performs its work in you who believe.

2 Peter 1
20 But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, 21 for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.

2 Tim 3:16
16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,

==========

Hint: nobody in the first century church was choosing to wait 300 or 400 years before reading Paul and knowing that he was an Apostle - and that Apostles were writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit --

klutedavid said:

Paul's letters were scripture in the early churches?

Click to expand...

1 Thess 2
13 For this reason we also constantly thank God that when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men, but for what it really is, the word of God, which also performs its work in you who believe.

2 Peter 3
14 Therefore, beloved, since you look for these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless, 15 and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, 16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.

klutedavid said:

2 Corinthians 11:12-15
But what I am doing I will continue to do, so that I may cut off opportunity from those who desire an opportunity to be regarded just as we are in the matter about which they are boasting. For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ.

Click to expand...

Yep - apostasy and heretics were within even the early church.

Acts 20
29 For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves.

1 Cor 1
Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,

1 For it has been declared to me concerning you, my brethren, by those of Chloe’s household, that there are contentions among you.

2 Cor 1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother,

2 Cor 3
Do we begin again to commend ourselves? Or do we need, as some others, epistles of commendation to you or letters of commendation from you? 2 You are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read by all men; 3 clearly you are an epistle of Christ, ministered by us, written not with ink but by the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of flesh, that is, of the heart.