Does believing Genesis is wrong make me a bad Christian?

[coffee4u]

. Creationists lie . It’s hard for a scientist to lie because other scientists will call him or her out as soon as the work is published . Remember that English doctor who lied about vaccines causing autism in a formal research paper? How fast did he get kicked to the curb once it was discovered that he lied about his research. Especially if it’s in a prestigious journal. They might get away with sloppy work in a journal that nobody reads much . . But creationist papers get rejected because they’re going against ideas that have been confirmed independently and repeatedly for centuries in some cases .

Scientists are going on assumptions. In fact every one of us is going on an assumption.
No one was there to see creation.
Evolution scientists believe in common decent as the explanation for similarities, while I believe the same God made them out of the same materials.

When they date rocks they are assuming that radioactive decay has always been the same, yet the core rock of the earth was made before time and they can't know if it has always been the same, they simply assume it and they do so because they discount miracles.

So those hoaxes which are still believed today weren't lies? Haeckel's embryo drawings was one of the hugest lies ever perpetrated and even today there are people who think the human embryo goes through some fish stage or pig stage without realizing where they got that idea from. How fudged embryo illustrations led to drawn-out lies

As to being kicked to the curb, come on, the only scientists welcomed into the fold are those who believe evolution. No other explanation is even given thought to and I am sure anyone who did would quickly find themselves on the outer if not fired. It's a pat each other on the back circle. Creation immediately assumes a God, the majority of people don't want that because if they believe in a God they could then be held accountable. This alone creates a drive for a completely naturalistic explanation to life.
What would you have done if someone turned water into wine in front of you? No doubt a scientist would try and come up with some naturalistic explanation because there is no place for miracles in science.
Vaccines causing autism is completely different. Although even in the medical field sometimes they have been slow, look at Thalidomide, that continued to be sold for some time after the dangers were suspected. Pretty sure because it involved big bucks. Just like the American Academy of Pediatrics stance on circumcision, waffle on, don't rock the boat, its a cash cow. And don't tell me money has no part in science, it does, money makes a difference everywhere. You don't annoy your large investors and if money is to be made going this way you bet they will all jump that way.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

. Creationists lie . It’s hard for a scientist to lie because other scientists will call him or her out as soon as the work is published . Remember that English doctor who lied about vaccines causing autism in a formal research paper? How fast did he get kicked to the curb once it was discovered that he lied about his research. Especially if it’s in a prestigious journal. They might get away with sloppy work in a journal that nobody reads much . . But creationist papers get rejected because they’re going against ideas that have been confirmed independently and repeatedly for centuries in some cases .

Science is wrong all the time. Especially in the realm of prehistoric archeology. 50 years ago they thought T-Rex was king of the dinosaurs. Now they are suggesting that it was actually a large lumbering feathered scavenger. But 50 years ago you would be considered anti science for disagreeing with them. So the idea of the scientific community holding each other accountable is flawed. Leads one to wonder what else they are wrong about.

 

[Job 33:6]

Science is wrong all the time. Especially in the realm of prehistoric archeology. 50 years ago they thought T-Rex was king of the dinosaurs. Now they are suggesting that it was actually a large lumbering feathered scavenger. But 50 years ago you would be considered anti science for disagreeing with them. So the idea of the scientific community holding each other accountable is flawed. Leads one to wonder what else they are wrong about.

T-Rex is still considered a very dominant species and predator.

Some topics have been updated, such as T-Rex having feathers, as you have noted. And scientists discovered feathers and overturned prior scientific understanding of their appearance. But obviously this somewhat insignificant question of whether dinosaurs have feathers or not, is a long shot from a question of if the earth is 6,000 years old, or several billion.

One topic encompasses .001% of science, the other is constructed based on tens of thousands of independent research findings.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

T-Rex is still considered a very dominant species and predator.

Some topics have been updated, such as T-Rex having feathers, as you have noted. And scientists discovered feathers and overturned prior scientific understanding of their appearance. But obviously this somewhat insignificant question of whether dinosaurs have feathers or not, is a long shot from a question of if the earth is 6,000 years old, or several billion.

One topic encompasses .001% of science, the other is constructed based on tens of thousands of independent research findings.

Now I cannot remember which article I read but I do recall that some scientists are suggesting that T. Rex was too big and heavy to be a predator. They were suggesting that it was a scavenger for large dead animals.

 

[Job 33:6]

Now I cannot remember which article I read but I do recall that some scientists are suggesting that T. Rex was too big and heavy to be a predator. They were suggesting that it was a scavenger for large dead animals.

A predator can also scavange. Some large theropod dinosaur teeth have been found in the bone matrix of plant eaters, that and scars from large theropod teeth. They were probably opportunistic.

Lions today hunt the weak, but in a pinch they would scavange too.

But anyway, the point is that, t rex and feathers and associated research, this is all stuff that is relatively young and somewhat minute in comparison to research on age of the earth.

Geologists have been publishing on an ancient earth, millions of years old at minimum, literally since the 1700s. The volume of work is very extensive in comparison to somewhat trivial topics about whether or not a theropod had "dawn feathers".

It is often the case that deniers of a theory focus on relatively trivial or small details, in an attempt to discredit vast bodies of research. It's possible that they just aren't aware of the vast volume of information that we have gathered. But sometimes I suspect these are just tactics to wedge in their opinions.

If people really want to critique things like geology or even the theory of evolution, they should get to the bread and butter, things like relative dating methods (not to be confused with absolute dating methods) and things like the predictability in the fossil succession in comparison to genetic phylogenies.

Not...ya know, if t rex has feathers or not.

If old earth geology were an elephant of research, the topic of t rex feathers would be like a hair on its toe.

Crunch! T. rex tooth found in dino tailbone.

"But when a T. rex went after this bit of hadrosaur dinner, about 80 million years ago, it lost its tooth in a scuffle. In the weeks and months following the attack, the hadrosaur's bones grew over the tooth and puncture wound, which tells researchers that the smaller dinosaur got away. Like lions today, T. rex would have lunged after its dinner, biting into their tails. This time, it was "a lucky break when that tooth snapped off," Burnham told NBC News."

And these finds aren't super rare either. I worked at a museum for some time with fossils and we had the same thing there, though they were of a different theropod.

And one last thing, archaeology is different from paleontology. It makes paleontologists cringe when people call us/them archaeologists but it's ok. It's really no big deal, I'll secretly cringe to myself. And nice oompa loompa picture!

 

[Livingstones2020]

I believe in a literal creation account in Genesis, which God created the universe and earth in 6 literal 24 hour days, around 6,000 years ago, and I am not ashamed to believe or to declare it. I take God at His Word and Genesis, I believe, is literal and was written in a historical narrative.

But by believe that Genesis is not literal doesn't mean that you are not a Christian. It is not a Salvation issue. However, I believe it is more of an authority issue, such as "Are we going to trust God more or trust man more?"

 

[Brightmoon]

Exactly my point of what I told you. You believe since is infallible. For decades science was being used to promote cigarettes. They lied about sugar for decades because the industry would pay their own researchers to counter the scientific studies. Etc. Etc.

. Anyone who’s taken high school organic chemistry will tell you that ordinary table sugar is an alcohol. So harmless it’s not completely as all alcohols are toxic ;some more than others . Table sugar is rather benign compared to methanol for example .

 

[Andre_b]

. Anyone who’s taken high school organic chemistry will tell you that ordinary table sugar is an alcohol. So harmless it’s not completely as all alcohols are toxic ;some more than others . Table sugar is rather benign compared to methanol for example .

You are just trying to justify yourself and "science", table sugar needs to be in very low amounts to be ok, but it's not needed at all, however, sugar is added to everything nowadays.

Many scientific studies for decades were being paid off by sugar companies and Coca-Cola: 50 Years Ago, Sugar Industry Quietly Paid Scientists To Point Blame At Fat

And this is only for sugar, there are many more that's like this.

Even recently many studies showed that cigarettes were an increased risk for complications to Covid19. But a few days ago there was another study showing that cigarettes were benefitial.
I find it strange because they can't really know for sure because there are too many other possible factors that they may not even account for.

We can go to the polio vaccines and show that they used monkey DNA which was contaminated with another virus which caused cancer but they took a long time before stopping using that formul in the 60's. Nowadays they use all kinds of ingredients in vaccines which I really doubt they are very safe, even though they may claim it is. Too many examples of vaccine injury that's often hidden from the mainstream.

Here are the vaccine ingredients: CDC vaccine excipient and media summary

So many ingredients that are just mind boggling.

 

[Victor in Christ]

replying to the original poster. why get your head muddled up in evolution? Apes, monkeys, fish and birds use tools. Why even think about gap-therories in genesis?, they are only theories, not fact. Man can come up with many cunning ways to make our minds wander and it comes as no surprise as Satan is within us thinking he's more powerful than God.

what we do know is when man/woman was cast out of the garden of edom they bore sin and that is still within us, we inherit that sin through thought, word and deed. The only way to get rid of that sin is to believe with all our heart, soul and mind that Christ who died on the cross, was buried and then rose again to be at the right hand of the father.....is our only way to eternal life.
God Bless

 

[coffee4u]

You are just trying to justify yourself and "science", table sugar needs to be in very low amounts to be ok, but it's not needed at all, however, sugar is added to everything nowadays.

Many scientific studies for decades were being paid off by sugar companies and Coca-Cola: 50 Years Ago, Sugar Industry Quietly Paid Scientists To Point Blame At Fat

And this is only for sugar, there are many more that's like this.

Even recently many studies showed that cigarettes were an increased risk for complications to Covid19. But a few days ago there was another study showing that cigarettes were benefitial.
I find it strange because they can't really know for sure because there are too many other possible factors that they may not even account for.

Exactly as I was saying before. MONEY.
Anyone who thinks scientists are these unbiased paragons hunting down truth do not live in the real world.


1 John 2:16
16 For everything in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—comes not from the Father but from the world.

 

[Brightmoon]

Cigarettes being beneficial? I doubt that .

Fringe groups sometimes publish iffy papers . Sometimes creationist stuff gets published usually by mistake or by the deliberate subterfuge of bypassing normal peer review.


Victor in Christ are you using theory in a scientific sense or the laymen’s sense because they don’t mean the same thing? its like sugar . To a layman it’s that white stuff they put in coffee, to a scientist it’s a whole class of chemicals that are polyalcohols . Are you using theory to mean baseless speculation? Because that’s confusing when you are speaking about science. Scientific theories aren’t speculation

 

[coffee4u]

Cigarettes being beneficial? I doubt that .

During the 1930-50's they were promoted as being good for your health.
Cigarettes were once ‘physician’ tested, approved

 

[Victor in Christ]

Victor in Christ are you using theory in a scientific sense or the laymen’s sense because they don’t mean the same thing? its like sugar . To a layman it’s that white stuff they put in coffee, to a scientist it’s a whole class of chemicals that are polyalcohols . Are you using theory to mean baseless speculation? Because that’s confusing when you are speaking about science. Scientific theories aren’t speculation

Hi, theory to me, in as simple a way as i can describe it, is man trying to be overly righteous and overly wise. (Ecclesiates 7:16) Man trying to be like God (in a broad sense of the word, both spiritually and physically). Man going to great lengths to explain who Cain married, a gap-theory in Genesis. Man trying to explain how the universe was created. Man getting involved in eschatology thinking they know all the answers (ie- full Preterism/the great tribulation is over AD70, writing many books on the end times which ultimately leads to confusion). Man becoming psychologists thinking they can fix the human mind. Man creating new drugs in an attempt to make people feel better emotionally.

I hope i'm not confusing things here as there's a need to grow spiritually and a need for physicians/certain drugs and surgery to fix our ailments, but there's also many temptations in this world we need to avoid and be aware of. There are spiritual practices and works that won't make us grow as Christians, there are also many physicians/drugs and surgeries offered and advertised that we do not need and can do us more damage.

Putting your faith in Christ is superior than putting your faith in man.

God bless.

 

[Brightmoon]

So you’re saying that you don’t actually know what a science theory is . I’m going to suggest that instead of pandering to that unfair and inaccurate stereotype you’ve had , that you actually learn what a scientific theory is . First thing you need to learn is that they’re based on facts. There would be no theory of gravity, no germ theory, and no evolution theory, if there weren’t a lot of facts to support them .
And keep in mind that if a bit of data is found to be false , then it’s not a fact

 

[Victor in Christ]

So you’re saying that you don’t actually know what a science theory is . I’m going to suggest that instead of pandering to that unfair and inaccurate stereotype you’ve had , that you actually learn what a scientific theory is . First thing you need to learn is that they’re based on facts. There would be no theory of gravity, no germ theory, and no evolution theory, if there weren’t a lot of facts to support them .
And keep in mind that if a bit of data is found to be false , then it’s not a fact

I don't want to come across smug, but i'd rather not learn what a scientific theory is. I know through faith Christ lives and the Holy spirit indwells within me. That is all i need to know.
God bless.

 

[Brightmoon]

So for you, ignorance is bliss. SMH. The problem is the rest of us would like to keep the medical knowledge that we’ve accrued by understanding that we’re related to other organisms. Cancer treatments, diabetes treatments, vaccines, antibiotics, advanced surgical techniques, etc. Natural selection is used in epidemic research and also in vaccines .
I actually wouldn’t want to live as if I were in the Bronze Age in the 21st century

 

[Job 33:6]

Hi, theory to me, in as simple a way as i can describe it, is man trying to be overly righteous and overly wise. (Ecclesiates 7:16) Man trying to be like God (in a broad sense of the word, both spiritually and physically). Man going to great lengths to explain who Cain married, a gap-theory in Genesis. Man trying to explain how the universe was created. Man getting involved in eschatology thinking they know all the answers (ie- full Preterism/the great tribulation is over AD70, writing many books on the end times which ultimately leads to confusion). Man becoming psychologists thinking they can fix the human mind. Man creating new drugs in an attempt to make people feel better emotionally.

I hope i'm not confusing things here as there's a need to grow spiritually and a need for physicians/certain drugs and surgery to fix our ailments, but there's also many temptations in this world we need to avoid and be aware of. There are spiritual practices and works that won't make us grow as Christians, there are also many physicians/drugs and surgeries offered and advertised that we do not need and can do us more damage.

Putting your faith in Christ is superior than putting your faith in man.

God bless.

If you have ever used tylonol, then you have used theory. Or if you have ever had surgery or even if you just own and drive a car, you have utilized scientific theories.

But are you being overly righteous? Or overly wise? Just because you have made use of scientific theories? Do you feel like you're trying to be God by using a car that allows you to move 50 times faster than you otherwise could with your God given legs?

Do you feel like you're trying to unlock all the secrets of the universe by using medicine made through chemical theories to heal your sicknesses?

Scientific theories typically consist of people just doing common sense things. If you're in pain, you try to divide a way to resolve that pain. There isn't anything sinful about creating and using scientific theories. On the contrary, this is why God gave us brains, so that we could act in ways that glorify him, such as helping healing the sick.

Even just being on this internet forum and discussing faith, you're using scientific theories (like theories of electricity and currents). But are you putting faith in "man's word over Christ's word"? No of course not. You're just being a normal person using your God given brain.

 

[Victor in Christ]

So for you, ignorance is bliss. SMH. The problem is the rest of us would like to keep the medical knowledge that we’ve accrued by understanding that we’re related to other organisms. Cancer treatments, diabetes treatments, vaccines, antibiotics, advanced surgical techniques, etc. Natural selection is used in epidemic research and also in vaccines .
I actually wouldn’t want to live as if I were in the Bronze Age in the 21st century

I am not ignorant of medical knowledge, nor did i say medical advancement is totally wrong. i simply do not want to put all my faith in doctors and be ignorant of the scripture and loose my dependence/faith in God through Christ our Saviour. In Christ alone i have assurance of eternal life. Only God knows when i'll die, man/science/medicine can improve physical health, but they can never take the place of god, nor extend life, nor provide eternal life.

God bless.

 

[Brightmoon]

What does all that have to do with accepting verifiable physical facts?

 

[Victor in Christ]

What does all that have to do with accepting verifiable physical facts?

You and many others may be doctors/scientists, etc and have seen physical facts through study, maths, experiments, etc. I will leave all that with those people and pray God guides their study. I know God is real, Christ is the only way to eternal life and the Holy Spirit comforts us, teaches us, instructs us. My facts are based on faith, for others it might be through a microscope, that's upto them. Its just not for me to put my faith in anything physical in this world. My foundations are in Faith through Christ our saviour and the scriptures, not in anything of this world.

God bless