Does believing Genesis is wrong make me a bad Christian?

Brightmoon · Jun 4, 2020

aschnyder26 said:
Ok let me pose some questions then. I don't really expect a definitive answer to these but let's explore some possibilities or even probabilities. Now some of these may seem obvious to you as clearly you are much more learned in the sciences. However I have these inquiries:

1) Concerning the fossil record of birds is it possible that we don't find bird bones as far back as we think we should because of the small size and low density of the bone structure doesn't allow it to last as long as thicker bones from mammals or shell structures which are far more dense. In other words could they have turned to dust before fossilizing considering the small size and density of their structure. However unlikely is that possible?

2) Is it possible that tiktaalik is just an extinct species of its very own kind even if it has the similarities to other creatures that we observe? Is that possible?

I have a not watched the video yet that you posted but I will in a little bit. So if any of these are answered in that video I would not yet know.

up until fairly recently we did find very few fossil birds for precisely that reason . And the we found a lot of proto birds and birds in China . Sometimes we get very lucky and delicate details are fossilized.

of course Tiktaalik is its own species . And it’s also an intermediate between lobefin fish and amphibians . There are a lot of these . Acanthostega is one also and so is Crassigyrinus

Brightmoon · Jun 4, 2020

NBB said:
You believe God created the earth and whats in it?

yes which I why I believe Nature over a 3000 year old book that’s been edited and changed many times over the centuries . Nature doesn’t lie !

NBB · Jun 4, 2020

Brightmoon said:
yes which I why I believe Nature over a 3000 year old book that’s been edited and changed many times over the centuries . Nature doesn’t lie !

Ok, you know evolutionist say evolution is 'self-sufficient' right? let me clarify, if i made a program on my pc that can make some calculations, then i put some numbers there, and let the program work and i get results, the program alone did all this.... this is what evolutionist think, evolution can create animals from a lesser little being alone, so if this is going to be true, then, where is God in that? do you believe nature is the way God intended it to be? or is the result of change and natural selection only?.

Brightmoon · Jun 4, 2020

Andre_b said:
Yes I know that's what they CLAIM and it's a huge lie. It's been refuted multiple times. They ignore the so called "Junk DNA". Some things in biology text books are flat out lies, especially evolution and age of the universe. Ernst Haeckel fraud was kept in text books for over 120 years.

Anomaly Recent Versions BLASTN Algorithm Nucmer LASTZ

oh that bs . Any biologist could tell you that BLAST is no good for determining ancestry . Which is why it’s not used to determine ancestry . Creationists conveniently tend to forget that . Typically muddying the waters by using an inappropriate technique ; getting a anomalous answer, and trumpeting this as if it would impress a real scientist . This nonsense only impresses science illiterates

Brightmoon · Jun 4, 2020

NBB said:
Ok, you know evolutionist say evolution is 'self-sufficient' right? let me clarify, if i made a program on my pc that can make some calculations, then i put some numbers there, and let the program work and i get results, the program alone this all this.... this is what evolutionist think, evolution can create animals from a lesser little being, so if this is going to be true, then, where is God in that? do you believe nature is the way God intended to be? or is the result of change and natural selection only?.

. You probably learned back in middle school that science only works on natural phenomena.
Scientists don’t use science for supernatural phenomena. If science facts debunk a long held and erroneous belief then too bad, so sad.

For centuries people believed that objects of different weights fell at different speeds because of Aristotle. Then someone actually did the experiments and found out it wasn’t true. Scientists have found out that some of your pet beliefs arent true . Do you continue to believe a lie or do you embrace the truth?

Geocentrism was refuted over 400 years ago by Galileo and others. The young earth was refuted during the 18th century( 1700s) . Separate creation was being questioned over 250 years ago by Linnaeus and refuted 160 years ago by Darwin, Wallace and many others.
I just don’t get my natural history information from the Bible

FYI biologists don’t use the term lesser being because even the bacteria in your mouth have been evolving for the same amount of time as your ancestral lineage , since life first appeared during the Precambrian

NBB · Jun 4, 2020

Brightmoon said:
. You probably learned back in middle school that science only works on natural phenomena.
Scientists don’t use science for supernatural phenomena. If science facts debunk a long held and erroneous belief then too bad, so sad.

For centuries people believed that objects of different weights fell at different speeds because of Aristotle. Then someone actually did the experiments and found out it wasn’t true. Scientists have found out that some of your pet beliefs arent true . Do you continue to believe a lie or do you embrace the truth?

Geocentrism was refuted over 400 years ago by Galileo and others. The young earth was refuted during the 18th century( 1700s) . Separate creation was being questioned over 250 years ago by Linnaeus and refuted 160 years ago by Darwin, Wallace and many others.
I just don’t get my natural history information from the Bible

FYI biologists don’t use the term lesser being because even the bacteria in your mouth have been evolving for the same amount of time as your ancestral lineage , since life first appeared during the Precambrian

So forget that i believe in the bible, lets say i have 'my doubts' then, your opinion is that evolution is 'self-sufficient' like i said, and evolutionist believe this, is a process that 'works' like a computer program making calculations it doesn't need any *help*, so now Do you believe nature (i mean animals etc) is the way God intended it to be?, or is the product of this process alone after the first 'amoebas' or whatever like evolutionists say?

Or you are more of a theistic evolutionist guy?

NBB · Jun 4, 2020

Brightmoon said:
. You probably learned back in middle school that science only works on natural phenomena.
Scientists don’t use science for supernatural phenomena. If science facts debunk a long held and erroneous belief then too bad, so sad.

For centuries people believed that objects of different weights fell at different speeds because of Aristotle. Then someone actually did the experiments and found out it wasn’t true. Scientists have found out that some of your pet beliefs arent true . Do you continue to believe a lie or do you embrace the truth?

Geocentrism was refuted over 400 years ago by Galileo and others. The young earth was refuted during the 18th century( 1700s) . Separate creation was being questioned over 250 years ago by Linnaeus and refuted 160 years ago by Darwin, Wallace and many others.
I just don’t get my natural history information from the Bible

FYI biologists don’t use the term lesser being because even the bacteria in your mouth have been evolving for the same amount of time as your ancestral lineage , since life first appeared during the Precambrian

So a 'long held belief' 'so sad' that it got destroyed its the belief that God created the earth and us people like the way he intended to?

So you basically believe man created itself, no need for God, except God throws an universe out there and thats it?, would you assume God would put an spirit in something not created by him? why? Jesus was God and became an human, you would like to think God did not plan the kind of body himself was going to be put into?
That man its just a coincidence?, if its not, if God created us the way he liked to, this is design my friend, even if its made indirectly, if i manipulate something to be the way i like, by the enviroment then that was designed by me the way i wanted to, so a lot of variables are under my control, the result? i am the creator of that thing i made the way i planned... In the end evolutionist are still wrong about not being design.

Brightmoon · Jun 4, 2020

NBB said:
So a 'long held belief' 'so sad' that it got destroyed its the belief that God created the earth and us people like the way he intended to?

So you basically believe man created itself, no need for God, except God throws an universe out there and thats it?, would you assume God would put an spirit in something not created by him? why? Jesus was God and became an human, you would like to think God did not plan the kind of body himself was going to be put into?
That man its just a coincidence?, if its not, if God created us the way he liked to, this is design my friend, even if its made indirectly, if i manipulate something to be the way i like, by the enviroment then that was designed by me the way i wanted to, so a lot of variables are under my control, the result? i am the creator of that thing i made the way i planned... In the end evolutionist are still wrong about not being design.

don’t put words in my mouth . I said I believe that God created the universe. The universe itself is giving different answers as to when and how . Doesn’t really bother me as nature can’t be edited like book can . Which is why I trust nature over an incoherent Bronze Age book . Creationist based pseudoscience makes no sense and insert magic here isn’t a good explanation esp since nature can and does give coherent explanations for the various phenomena.
Your arguments for a young earth or separate creation come down to, I don’t wanna hear that I’m wrong so I’ll ignore evidence that I am . Which most people think is childish behavior . Most of the former believers I’ve askEd mention creationist pseudoscience as the reason they stopped believing . I’m
glad I wasn’t raised with that faith tradition

NBB · Jun 4, 2020

Brightmoon said:
don’t put words in my mouth . I said I believe that God created the universe. The universe itself is giving different answers as to when and how . Doesn’t really bother me as nature can’t be edited like book can . Which is why I trust nature over an incoherent Bronze Age book . Creationist based pseudoscience makes no sense and insert magic here isn’t a good explanation esp since nature can and does give coherent explanations for the various phenomena.
Your arguments for a young earth or separate creation come down to, I don’t wanna hear that I’m wrong so I’ll ignore evidence that I am . Which most people think is childish behavior . Most of the former believers I’ve askEd mention creationist pseudoscience as the reason they stopped believing . I’m
glad I wasn’t raised with that faith tradition

I actually i am not sure about the age of the earth, and my mind is at more easy with old, but,

So, you didn't answer, if evolution can make a man from some amoeba alone, self sufficient process like evolutionist believe, where is God in there? i see that as 'man created itslef' mostly, how God fits in there?, you must believe something i guess, also why God put an spirit in a being he did not create?
you know our spirit and soul has things specific to people traits, our soul matches our body, so God designed a soul for a body he didn't even intervene in creating? remember evolutionist say evolution is enough to make people and animals, no need for anyone to help, also its not design in any way they say, its not design but our souls are handcrafter to our bodies and viceversa, so at least out MOST IMPORTANT PART: OUR SOUL, BASICALLY OUR PERSON ITS DESIGNED. So evolutionist have it wrong again.

NBB · Jun 4, 2020

At least the 'evolutionary christian' should recognize that evolutionist have it wrong when they say we are a ape with a more grown, brain, they even think our emotions etc, evolved, and have more 'theories' to show about it, so where is the soul in there? that we are a brain only? you know brains can't have communion with God right?

So, basically if you can't have communion with God and we are mortal body only, where is the hope for the afterlife with Christ?? you know that this makes christianity useless... so enjoy life while you can that tommorow you will die and thats it, *if we are a brain*.

Brightmoon · Jun 4, 2020

NBB said:
So forget that i believe in the bible, lets say i have 'my doubts' then, your opinion is that evolution is 'self-sufficient' like i said, and evolutionist believe this, is a process that 'works' like a computer program making calculations it doesn't need any *help*, so now Do you believe nature (i mean animals etc) is the way God intended it to be?, or is the product of this process alone after the first 'amoebas' or whatever like evolutionists say?

Or you are more of a theistic evolutionist guy?

I’m not a guy . I don’t consider myself to be a theistic evolutionists because I don’t have any problem accepting any confirmed science fact and it had never crossed my mind that religion had anything to say about science. They have different ways of finding out answers . For example. science doesn’t address anything supernatural and God is supernatural. If science debunks a Bronze Age belief it doesn’t bother me as I don’t live in the Bronze Age

Brightmoon · Jun 4, 2020

NBB said:
I actually i am not sure about the age of the earth, and my mind is at more easy with old, but,

So, you didn't answer, if evolution can make a man from some amoeba alone, self sufficient process like evolutionist believe, where is God in there? i see that as 'man created itslef' mostly, how God fits in there?, you must believe something i guess, also why God put an spirit in a being he did not create?
you know our spirit and soul has things specific to people traits, our soul matches our body, so God designed a soul for a body he didn't even intervene in creating? remember evolutionist say evolution is enough to make people and animals, no need for anyone to help, also its not design in any way they say, its not design but our souls are handcrafter to our bodies and viceversa, so at least out MOST IMPORTANT PART: OUR SOUL, BASICALLY OUR PERSON ITS DESIGNED. So evolutionist have it wrong again.

to be recognized as a SCIENTIFIC fact you’d have to come up with evidence that it’s true . It’s not part of science since souls are supernatural phenomena

NBB · Jun 4, 2020

Brightmoon said:
to be recognized as a SCIENTIFIC fact you’d have to come up with evidence that it’s true . It’s not part of science since souls are supernatural phenomena

Is not science the pursue of seeking the truth? you agree that our person is basically our soul and spirit right? why the deception then? they need so badly to come up with a naturalistic explanation instead of recognizing we may be the product of God or something greater even, yes the world and scientists leading evolution don't want God on schools or in their science at all.

I said deception because: Why they develop theories about how our brain developed intelligence and emotions, shouldn't they say they do not know instead of deceiveing us with clever theories?

Supernatural or not there is truth to be found in both.

NBB · Jun 4, 2020

Brightmoon said:
don’t put words in my mouth . I said I believe that God created the universe. The universe itself is giving different answers as to when and how . Doesn’t really bother me as nature can’t be edited like book can . Which is why I trust nature over an incoherent Bronze Age book . Creationist based pseudoscience makes no sense and insert magic here isn’t a good explanation esp since nature can and does give coherent explanations for the various phenomena.
Your arguments for a young earth or separate creation come down to, I don’t wanna hear that I’m wrong so I’ll ignore evidence that I am . Which most people think is childish behavior . Most of the former believers I’ve askEd mention creationist pseudoscience as the reason they stopped believing . I’m
glad I wasn’t raised with that faith tradition

That incoherent 'bronze age' book has the gospel on it, if you didn't notice, which is the way most people find how to be saved and know God.

hedrick · Jun 4, 2020

NBB said:
That incoherent 'bronze age' book has the gospel on it, if you didn't notice, which is the way most people find how to be saved and know God.

Of course by Jesus time it’s not the Bronze Age. But people living in any age can experience God, and God can use them.

RDKirk · Jun 4, 2020

NBB said:
Except evolutionist mostly agree that evolution alone without the need of anyone can make things happen. That is what they teach in schools. Like that 100,000 tiny random mutations piled up to make an eye. God made things, if he directed evolution then its design not evolution, and we know how evolutionist get triggered by 'design'.

So someone has to be in the wrong here, either evolutionists thinking evolution alone is enough, or the christians saying God planned nature.

I'm not at all concerned about what evolutionists think. And I think the "intelligent design" proponents usually go down a rabbit hole trying to prove a very narrow concept of ID.

I'm satisfied with marveling at each scientific discovery and saying, "Wow. So that's how God did that! Cool!"

Favoredclay · Jun 4, 2020

You know what one sign your lost is.....when you keep coming back to the same point over and over. The thread was launched and lost in the cosmos a long time ago. It's time for all parties to take off in a straight line directly away from each other. No one is winning

Andrewn · Jun 5, 2020

The universe is about 14 billion years old.

The solar system settled into its current layout about 4.5 billion years ago.

The earliest undisputed evidence of life on Earth dates from at least 3.5 billion years ago.

530 million years ago the first true vertebrate appears.

Non-bird dinosaurs lived between about 245 and 66 million years ago.

Mammals evolved from one lineage of reptiles. This transition began 286 - 248 million years ago.

Homo erectus lived between 1.9 million and 110,000 years ago, and is one of the first recognizable huminids.

Homo neanderthalensis or Homo sapiens neanderthalensis are known from numerous fossils, especially from after 130,000 years ago. They lived in Eurasia until about 40,000 years ago.

The earliest fossil evidence of early Homo sapiens appears in Africa around 300,000 years ago.

The first modern humans began moving outside of Africa starting about 70,000-100,000 years ago.

They developed a capacity for language and behavioral modernity about 50,000 years ago.

Stephen P · Jun 5, 2020

ChristianForCats said:
Nobody can disprove what has been proven, obviously. Proof is everywhere that the whole world and all of nature evolved over billions of years, not less than a week. Mass extinctions including the biggest flood in world history are known to have occurred hundreds of millions of years prior to the existence of humans, especially homo sapiens - the last remaining species. I simply cannot for the life of me believe what the Bible says about the Creation and timing of the Great Flood, at least in terms of being the worst ever, is more accurate than what scientists discover. But in my heart I believe the Bible is God's Word and believe in miracles, so I don't want to feel like I am betraying Him in favor of sinners. Am I screwed up about my religion?

Hi ChristianForCats
I admittedly am still an Angry Christian because I feel the Bible and Creation didn't match and I was NOT happy about that. I like things resolved.
I'm starting to post some things.. my first Was Dawkins vs God.
When I was 6, I saw Richard Dawkins talk on Evolution and random chance creating bats. He showed us the bat program.
The Shroeder video that I've just posted about in "Time, God and Shroeder" seems to explain the point about how billions can become days.
I have collected information on how God could scientifically (the web pages are science magazines) have brought birth pains, farming troubles, and death in the Fall without Creating anything else.
(Remember God finished Creation on day 6, so we have to work with whats there.. God didn't snap His fingers and create a Rainbow.)
AND of course there is the Flood.
Hang in there..
There does seem to be some ways of connecting what humans have resolved so far, but I think we are only just starting the jigsaw so each piece is taking a long time to come together.
I'm hoping I get some feedback like "did you look at.. " which would help me work out where I;m going in this.

Stephen P · Jun 5, 2020

NBB said:
Ok, you know evolutionist say evolution is 'self-sufficient' right? let me clarify, if i made a program on my pc that can make some calculations, then i put some numbers there, and let the program work and i get results, the program alone did all this.... this is what evolutionist think, evolution can create animals from a lesser little being alone, so if this is going to be true, then, where is God in that? do you believe nature is the way God intended it to be? or is the result of change and natural selection only?.

"NBB" Have a look at my post on Dawkins.. Does this answer what you are thinking of?
Dawkins did create this program, and I was at one of his presentations in 1970's in London U.K...
There is a simple way to have both God and Dawkins correct.

Does believing Genesis is wrong make me a bad Christian?

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