Does anyone *really* have any respect for the modern day soldier?

[cantata]

*sigh*

Blanket statements about any one group of people are not recommended.

Apart from anything else, some of us have loved ones in the forces.

 

[300B]

Stan, I think you need to learn the difference between "ignorant" and "stupid".

 

[300B]

I know your question was specifically about modern day soldiers, but what about soldiers from earlier time periods?

 

[stan1980]

How about this...

Not all Soldiers are ignorant, Stan. I serve consciously for my country and certainly we disagree about war and issues like that but I do not think I am ignorant. It is arrogant to think you have the monopoly on a proper world view.

What makes being a Soldier noble is the notion that you are ready to sacrifice your life for another person just as a policeman or a fireman. Isn't that noble?

If it isn't, why not?

Is it noble? Yes, at least it would be noble, if you really were putting your life on the line to save other people, or if you are defending your country or a peacemaker, but I'm afraid that is not the case if you are anywhere near Afghanistan or Iraq. If the goal really was to save lives, the trillions spent on the forces would have gone into solving world famine. No, you are putting your life on the line, but not to save people, but for oil, money and ultimately power. I'm afraid you are just a small cog in the machine, and apart from your family and friends no one will *really* care if you come back dead or alive. And all that, for what exactly?

Apart from anything else, some of us have loved ones in the forces.

I feel for the family and friends of soldiers who come back in body bags, or end up having to give up their lives to become full time carers for the maimed, but lets be fair, it isn't me who puts them through that, and my criticism isn't going to change a whole lot. The only thing I can recommend is not to turn on the TV, listen to the radio, pick up a newspaper or browse the internet.

I realise all these comments are cold, and if they upset you I apologise, but sometimes you have to tell it like it is. Sure, I place most the blame on the leaders but I don't think anyone, including our troops, are beyond criticism. And to exonerate the very people who make it happen from guilt, is wrong. The old, "they are only doing their job" routine doesn't quite sit well with me.

I know your question was specifically about modern day soldiers, but what about soldiers from earlier time periods?

Too broad a question. But I'll take WW2 as an example, and I do have respect for the people who fought the Nazis. But the key difference was we were under attack.

 

[keith99]

Too broad a question. But I'll take WW2 as an example, and I do have respect for the people who fought the Nazis. But the key difference was we were under attack.

So it would have been fine with you if the Nazis exterminated the Jews, Gypsies, Gays, 'Defectives' and Slavs as long as they let us alone?

 

[stan1980]

So it would have been fine with you if the Nazis exterminated the Jews, Gypsies, Gays, 'Defectives' and Slavs as long as they let us alone?

No. But then the Nazis exterminated millions of people, and is not comparable to any modern day regime that I know of, certainly not the Ba'ath party or Taleban regime.

 

[300B]

So the British were wrong to fight the American colonies since they (the British) were not under attack?

 

[stan1980]

So the British were wrong to fight the American colonies since they (the British) were not under attack?

I'm afraid my knowledge of this isn't very good, but if you're talking about the revolutionary war, we were wrong to attack. You should always ask the people what they want in my opinion, and if the Americans wanted their independence which I believe they did, you should live with that decision, and let them have it.

 

[keith99]

No. But then the Nazis exterminated millions of people, and is not comparable to any modern day regime that I know of, certainly not the Ba'ath party or Taleban regime.

Is Pol Pot modern? On a percentage basis there are several modern regimes that at least rival Nazi Germany.

Kurds might look at the Regime of the Ba'ath party quite differently htan you do. But there are not so many Kurds, so I guess they don't matter.

 

[stan1980]

Is Pol Pot modern? On a percentage basis there are several modern regimes that at least rival Nazi Germany.

What exactly is the point you are trying to make? Do try and think through your posts before you respond to me. Thanks xxx

Kurds might look at the Regime of the Ba'ath party quite differently htan you do. But there are not so many Kurds, so I guess they don't matter.

20 years too late to start using that as an excuse for invading.

 

[mpok1519]

most people join because they need the money; not because they have a desire to serve an imaginary person called "Uncle Sam" - most soldiers don't buy into the crap their superiors shove down their throats.

I respect a soldier; I just can't always respect what they're doing. Sure, the person deserves respect, but not one's actions.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

20 years too late to start using that as an excuse for invading.

Yeah, guess who used a veto when the UN security council demanded actions against the massacre of the Kurds in 1988. (And guess who supplied the weapons used to kill them, now that we're at it.)

 

[stan1980]

Yeah, guess who used a veto when the UN security council demanded actions against the massacre of the Kurds in 1988. (And guess who supplied the weapons used to kill them, now that we're at it.)

What that has to do with the the recent gulf war I have no idea.

More to the point, why any of that would make me respect the modern day soldiers who are over there now, I have even less of an idea.

But thanks for the history lesson, all the same.

 

[Yusuf Evans]

More to the point, why any of that would make me respect the modern day soldiers who are over there now, I have even less of an idea.

Once again, you're showing ignorance by buying into everything the media is saying about Iraq. Would you have respect for someone who sacrificed their life, in order for another to live? Would you respect the one, who took a life in order to save 5? 10? 15+?

 

[stan1980]

Once again, you're showing ignorance by buying into everything the media is saying about Iraq. Would you have respect for someone who sacrificed their life, in order for another to live? Would you respect the one, who took a life in order to save 5? 10? 15+?

Whose lives exactly are the modern day soldiers saving in Iraq?

 

[mpok1519]

I personally don't think most people buy into the whole "we're fighting for your freedom" thing alot of 'patriots' pander to their advantage.

I don't think Iraq and my freedom to vote have much to do with each other.

I do not feel my freedom is threatened if we do not fight this war.

 

[Autumnleaf]

I have to admit, I have none.. or very little.

The peacekeepers perhaps,

The peacekeepers are often the worst. They have been known to run refugee camps where they systematically rape the women and girls, and rob everyone.

but 98% of the others, I'm afraid not. And this is coming from someone whose parents were both in the army. I just don't see why anyone would so want to become part of the machinery of the state. Especially not one fighting in the BS wars that Britain and other western countries currently shame themselves in.

Oil is the reason for the wars in it might be the only thing keeping you from eating only the food you can walk to on a daily basis. Don't cuss the soldier with your mouth full.

Everyone likes to say how we should respect people who are out there fighting for our freedom, but lets face it, all the people I know who joined the army are there because they spent 10 years messing around at school instead of knuckling down. So I guess the thought of playing around with guns and killing innocent people is probably quite appealing to these sorts.

So if someone comes home in a body bag... well that is an occupational hazard I'm afraid. I feel a little bit of sympathy for people who get maimed and lose their legs and stuff, as I would for any human being who ends up like that, but I'm afraid you reap what you sow.

Most soldiers and Marines I've worked with care for their families and think they are doing work for their God and country. I respect them even if you don't.

When the British Royal Marines came to the desert training base I worked at their little trucks seemed to end up parked at family housing where the US Marines were sent off to Okinawa Japan...

 

[stan1980]

I have problems with thinking in terms of "respect" (or lack thereof) when it comes to anonymous crowds.
That said, I must admit that I personally have little understanding for anyone who thinks of organized state-sponsored mass killing in an alleged "us vs. them" scenario as a legitimate means of problem solving, and even less for those who engage in it or join an organisation that serves this purpose.
I just don´t get it.

Great post.

Whose lives exactly are the modern day soldiers saving in Iraq?

The silence is deafening.

It's okay though, I didn't expect to get an answer, certainly not one without flaws. I'll be diplomatic for a second. I think you guys do a hard job, and it does take balls to do what you do, which I do respect in its own right, but it is what it is and from my eyes it isn't pretty. My hands aren't exactly clean either, as I go along with the system and pay my taxes to fund the whole thing, so for that reason I'll leave it there.

Apologies to the people who I have offended in this thread. I'll admit I have been deliberately provocative to get a reaction, although I do stand by most of what I said. My thoughts are with those who have family or friends serving, and for those of you already serving I hope you get home safe.

 

[quatona]

Is Pol Pot modern? On a percentage basis there are several modern regimes that at least rival Nazi Germany.

According to jmersville, as well the German and Pol Pot´s soldiers were noble in that they were willing to lay down their lives.

The thing that seems to be easily forgotten here is that soldiers do not only are willing to lay down their lives but are also willing to end other persons´ lives - and these persons are usually not Pol Pot or Hitler, but other "noble" soldiers.

 

[cantata]

I feel for the family and friends of soldiers who come back in body bags, or end up having to give up their lives to become full time carers for the maimed, but lets be fair, it isn't me who puts them through that, and my criticism isn't going to change a whole lot. The only thing I can recommend is not to turn on the TV, listen to the radio, pick up a newspaper or browse the internet.

I realise all these comments are cold, and if they upset you I apologise, but sometimes you have to tell it like it is. Sure, I place most the blame on the leaders but I don't think anyone, including our troops, are beyond criticism. And to exonerate the very people who make it happen from guilt, is wrong. The old, "they are only doing their job" routine doesn't quite sit well with me.

My reasons for pointing out that some of us have loved ones in the forces was not sentimental, although thanks for assuming otherwise. My point was actually that those who know people in the armed forces are quite likely to disagree with you that they are all stupid, lazy drop-outs with no soul. And they'd be right. One of the brightest people I know served a term in Afghanistan. He is now working as a policeman in a squad which specialises in dealing with rape and sexual abuse in the London area. He is a deeply loving and compassionate man.

Frankly, I think you need to get off your high-horse, leave the arrogance at the door, and maybe spend a little time thinking before you barge in with your poorly-considered opinions, stan. You're not "telling it like it is". You're telling it like it is in your head, which is apparently very different. I don't like war. But I don't hold soldiers responsible for having to fight pointless ones. And I would never claim that everyone, or virtually everyone, in the armed forces, or in any other group, is like this or like that. I'd be setting myself up for a fall.