Does Aging Prove Genesis Is True?

Paul of Eugene OR · Jun 17, 2016

Athanasius88 said:
Can u produce a quote from me that declares i have no evidence for my faith? . . . . . .

No, of course not. You didn't say that. But it is the logical deduction from your beliefs.

You have, you see, declared that scripture always trumps any other contrary evidence. This means that evidence, itself, doesn't work for you.

So since evidence doesn't work for you, you don't use evidence to establish scripture.

Its a simple, logical deduction that you don't realize you are tied to because of your disregard of all evidence unless it agrees with your ideas about scripture.

But I grant that you don't fully realize the implications of your stand for scripture regardless of all evidence.

Athanasius88 · Jun 17, 2016

Colter said:
Jesus preaches the original gospel of the kingdom:
(Luke 6:17-19)

23And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.

Jesus wasn't preaching "Christ and him crucified" as the cross hasn't happened yet.

Jesus became human for us, lived for us in faith, he died for us in faith. We have a God that has been human who lived by Gods will in faith, he showed us how, and that it could, be done. That there is life after death. That's not the same as saying the lamb was a substitue sacrifice for sins, an idea already prevalent in Pagan Roman religious philosophy. Roman state religion would eventually merge with the post cross speculations of men.

We were born into a ready made but compromised religion.

I have already provided ample proof that Christ both claimed to be Messiah the King and that He understood his death to be for his sheep...i also made clear that His claim to Messiahship is enough to prove His understanding of the substitutional atonement because it then allows full application of all OT scriptures concearning Messiah the King and his redemptive work...i never disputed Christs teachings on the Kingdom of Heaven, and therefore your proof text is of no value to your argument
All u have done in this reply is paste a Bible verse and restate your unsubstantiated, untenable, heretical view point for a third time, mumbling something about ancient pagan philosophy and the speculations of men, in some vain effort to give your opinion some appearance of credibility... I regard you, sir, as a heretic and as such i must warn u that hell fire is heated all the hotter in anticipation of the arrival of every heretic. Please take the time to read the Holy Bible and to consider the truth contained therein. Christ is all in all, without his atonement all any of us can look foreward to is a certain and fearsome judgement before the Great White Throne.

Paul of Eugene OR said:
No, of course not. You didn't say that. But it is the logical deduction from your beliefs.

You have, you see, declared that scripture always trumps any other contrary evidence. This means that evidence, itself, doesn't work for you.

So since evidence doesn't work for you, you don't use evidence to establish scripture.

Its a simple, logical deduction that you don't realize you are tied to because of your disregard of all evidence unless it agrees with your ideas about scripture.

But I grant that you don't fully realize the implications of your stand for scripture regardless of all evidence.

Paul, you decline to offer proof, because u have no proof. You instead opt to stand on the shaky ground of truths alluded to but as yet unproduced.
I suspect that u have no truths that u can effectively put forward and that your entire argument is consistent upon the conclusions of others that you personally agree with, yet are not capable of fully understanding.
I was prepared to debate the validity of my world view, to offer proofs, and to enter into an amicable logical scientific discourse with u, as all Christians should ever be. I see now, however, that you are neither willing nor capable of such an intellectual exchange and merely chose to declare once more (without a single shred of evidential proof for your claim) that u feel i am unwilling or incapable of logical imperical discernment...a conclusions you can only have reached by faith alone...

an odd position to hang onto indeed...lol

As i said, my friend, your quality would be quantified.

-57 · Jun 17, 2016

ClothedInGrace said:
Hello everyone!

Genesis 6:3 has God shortening our lifespans to 120 years...

Was that 120 years...a lifespan...or how long Noah had to build the ark?

-57 · Jun 17, 2016

4x4toy said:
Do you believe Adam would have died had he not eat of the tree with the forbidden fruit ?

I say Adam would have still been alive today.

-57 · Jun 17, 2016

Speedwell said:
OK, then I will save you some more words.

I take the Garden story in Genesis to be an etiological narrative intended to explain how we acquired the self-aware intelligence (not possessed by the other creatures) which allow us to contemplate the consequences of our actions and to contemplate our own mortality as well. Or, as St. Paul would have it, how sin and death came into the world.

I don't believe it had anything at all to do with the mere cessation of biological life.

Where does the bible support this considering Genesis is presented as literal historical history by the inspired authors of the bible?

Athanasius88 · Jun 17, 2016

-57 said:
Was that 120 years...a lifespan...or how long Noah had to build the ark?

the historical interpretation has always been that of a 120 year period concluding with the Gread Deluge. I personally agree with this view based on the contextual, grammatical, and linguistic evidence in the text...some claim it to be a determination of total life span, but considering it took several centuries for life spans to shorten to this "limit" i dont think a '120 year lifespan limit' is the proper understanding of this particular passage.

-57 · Jun 17, 2016

ClothedInGrace said:
Look Speedwell, I never said that everything is either 100% history or a lie. I just see it this way in Genesis, because the book is written as history whether you like it or not, so if it is not accurate history then I consider it a lie. Also, what's hostile sounding about me taking a firm stance on the truth of Genesis? You have yet to explain your reasoning for why you interpret Genesis 2-3 as fiction when the rest of the book was clearly written as non-fiction.

One thing people should consider.....if Genesis is simply some sort of allegorical story....we should ask them, why did Paul in his letter to Timothy base his instruction to women on something directly from Genesis? (1st Tim 2:13...and before)

Paul instructing women in church...I do not permit a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man; she is to remain quiet. 13For Adam was formed first, and then Eve. 14And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman who was deceived and fell into transgression.

....why base that instruction on an allegory? Makes no sense.

-57 · Jun 17, 2016

Athanasius88 said:
the historical interpretation has always been that of a 120 year period concluding with the Gread Deluge. I personally agree with this view based on the contextual, grammatical, and linguistic evidence in the text...some claim it to be a determination of total life span, but considering it took over several centuries for life spans to shorten to this "limit" i dont think a '120 year lifespan limit' is the proper understanding of this particular passage.

The following is a biblical age chart:

The chart shows lifespans being shortened.
one interesting point is that the bible says in the days of Peleg the continents were divided (Gen 10:25)....and at that time lifespans were shortened again....thought you might be interested in that tidbit.

-57 · Jun 17, 2016

MariaIsabella said:
Well, wait just a minute, just because someone believes in evolution does not mean that they doubt the existence of God. I'm a devout Christian but I also strongly believe in the tenets of evolution. If God can create people to be one way, surely God can also allow people to evolve as well. God is all powerful, after all, surely God can allow for change. Who are we to say that evolution is not in Gods image or Gods intention. Can you or I ever fully comprehend what God understands to be true? I know that surely a sense of wonder remains in the human mind, of what magical and beautiful things reside in the ethos of Gods creation.

Problem being...God didn't say he used evolutionism to create man.
being a devout christian that you claim you are...why would you disagree with Paul when he said:

Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned

and...
1 cor 15:21 For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead.

The bible say one man caused the fall. How does that satisfy the notion that evolutionism say population evolve...and it wasn't a result of one man? If evolutionism is true then how did mankind fall?

Colter · Jun 17, 2016

Athanasius88 said:
I have already provided ample proof that Christ both claimed to be Messiah the King and that He understood his death to be for his sheep...i also made clear that His claim to Messiahship is enough to prove His understanding of the substitutional atonement because it then allows full application of all OT scriptures concearning Messiah the King and his redemptive work...i never disputed Christs teachings on the Kingdom of Heaven, and therefore your proof text is of no value to your argument
All u have done in this reply is paste a Bible verse and restate your unsubstantiated, untenable, heretical view point for a third time, mumbling something about ancient pagan philosophy and the speculations of men, in some vain effort to give your opinion some appearance of credibility... I regard you, sir, as a heretic and as such i must warn u that hell fire is heated all the hotter in anticipation of the arrival of every heretic. Please take the time to read the Holy Bible and to consider the truth contained therein. Christ is all in all, without his atonement all any of us can look foreward to is a certain and fearsome judgement before the Great White Throne.

Paul, you decline to offer proof, because u have no proof. You instead opt to stand on the shaky ground of truths alluded to but as yet unproduced.
I suspect that u have no truths that u can effectively put forward and that your entire argument is consistent upon the conclusions of others that you personally agree with, yet are not capable of fully understanding.
I was prepared to debate the validity of my world view, to offer proofs, and to enter into an amicable logical scientific discourse with u, as all Christians should ever be. I see now, however, that you are neither willing nor capable of such an intellectual exchange and merely chose to declare once more (without a single shred of evidential proof for your claim) that u feel i am unwilling or incapable of logical imperical discernment...a conclusions you can only have reached by faith alone...

an odd position to hang onto indeed...lol

As i said, my friend, your quality would be quantified.

Oh good heavens, I've stumbled upon a member of the inquisition. This is an Internet forum, come on down off your high horse and join us.

There was a gospel prior to the cross, it changed after the cross. Obviously the implications don't bode well for those needing to sacrifice Jesus instead if taking personal responsibility for your own shortcomings (if you have any).

Colter · Jun 17, 2016

The beast was already fallen when incarnate, Adam and Eve encountered him. The mortal death penalty was specific to the pair for violating Gods plan for the earth, if death was not already normal for man, the earth would be really, really overcrowded.

Athanasius88 · Jun 17, 2016

Colter said:
Oh good heavens, I've stumbled upon a member of the inquisition. This is an Internet forum, come on down off your high horse and join us.

There was a gospel prior to the cross, it changed after the cross. Obviously the implications don't bode well for those needing to sacrifice Jesus instead if taking personal responsibility for your own shortcomings (if you have any).

You cannot and have not established your assertion with any manner of reasonable proof. All u have done was make baseless claims. Claims which, by the way, attempt to discredit not only everything from Romans to Revelation but also everything from Genesis to Malachi..and u do this based on your own self assured insinuation.
You have been given opportunity to establish this claim with some form of viable evidence and u, four separate times now, have stated a terrible heretical falsehood with no proof or reference to proof (because none exists) and expect that somehow i should accept it as established fact
There is not nor ever was a Gospel besides the cross. Galatians 1:6-9 is worth reading my heretical friend. I must be honest, i can not view you as a brother in Christ as long as u continue to persist in this falsehood. You have been given the chance to defend your view, have failed in doing so and still refuse to turn from it..therefore i consider this debate over, and i pray u come to see your desperate need for Jesus Christ and his blessed work on the Cross.

Colter · Jun 17, 2016

Athanasius88 said:
You cannot and have not established your assertion with any manner of reasonable proof. All u have done was make baseless claims. Claims which, by the way, attempt to discredit not only everything from Romans to Revelation but also everything from Genesis to Malachi..and u do this based on your own self assured insinuation.
You have been given opportunity to establish this claim with some form of viable evidence and u, four separate times now, have stated a terrible heretical falsehood with no proof or reference to proof (because none exists) and expect that somehow i should accept it as established fact
There is not nor ever was a Gospel besides the cross. Galatians 1:6-9 is worth reading my heretical friend. I must be honest, i can not view you as a brother in Christ as long as u continue to persist in this falsehood. You have been given the chance to defend your view, have failed in doing so and still refuse to turn from it..therefore i consider this debate over, and i pray u come to see your desperate need for Jesus Christ and his blessed work on the Cross.

The work before the cross is where the original gospel can be found. The cross represents pig headed religious people's inability to see beyond the petrified doctrines.

MariaIsabella · Jun 19, 2016

-57 said:
Problem being...God didn't say he used evolutionism to create man.
being a devout christian that you claim you are...why would you disagree with Paul when he said:

Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned

and...
1 cor 15:21 For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead.

The bible say one man caused the fall. How does that satisfy the notion that evolutionism say population evolve...and it wasn't a result of one man? If evolutionism is true then how did mankind fall?

Well, first of all, evolutionism is not a word, evolution is the word. Second of all, one man bringing sin into the world has nothing to do with human ability to adapt to our surroundings. Fjnally, I never said he used evolution to create people, I said God provides for man to be capable of evolving. In the future, please attempt to provide a reasonable and logical argument if you want to debate with me.

mikpat · Jun 19, 2016

Good grief—what would feed us, what about our Senate and Congress— 55,980 452 Congress people will meet at 0700 to morrow to discuss——- the Transgender Problem. and shortage of birth control pills.
The three hundred million guests are requested to leave their transportation home and take the subway.

MariaIsabella · Jun 19, 2016

mikpat said:
Good grief—what would feed us, what about our Senate and Congress— 55,980 452 Congress people will meet at 0700 to morrow to discuss——- the Transgender Problem. and shortage of birth control pills.
The three hundred million guests are requested to leave their transportation home and take the subway.

What on earth are you talking about?

mikpat · Jun 20, 2016

Why Princess,

I'm being satirical on the idea that at this time aging should increase into the high range hundreds etc. We are already having problems with trying to make life bearable among the elderly. Maybe we should revive a school for euthanasia, Kervorkian U..
Sort of like the movie "Solyent Green" Charlton Heston and E.G. Robinson.

Evolution and wars will maintain sufficient population control. Sorry, I'm not privy to what the Good Lord has in mind so I dare not venture into His plans. Of course there may come a time that mankind has turned its back on God enough to warrant end of time….

Many geriatric pts in homes etc. are anxious to die, had enough of life and would like to get to heaven, to see the Lord. i.e. the waiting is a drag…….

mikpat · Jun 20, 2016

Princess—-

check your college dictionary — evolution is the process, evolutionism is the belief in such a process and an evolutionist is one who adheres to such a process and belief.

Colter · Jun 20, 2016

I'm an evolutionist and a disciple of Jesus.

mikpat · Jun 20, 2016

Mr. Colter—- as an evolutionist—-what exactly do you believe————-especially regarding mankind?
As a follower of Jesus——that is a very general statement. Lots of people follow Jesus but have reservations as to who He really is.

I am not challenging you in any way just interested in your comments to my questions.

Does Aging Prove Genesis Is True?

Finally Old Enough

Maker of long wordy posts

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Maker of long wordy posts

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Member

Member

Maker of long wordy posts

Member

Princess

Active Member

Princess

Active Member

Active Member

Member

Active Member

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency