Does Aging Prove Genesis Is True?

Radrook · Nov 2, 2016

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CrystalDragon said:
True, the "ancient serpent" is mentioned as the devil and Satan in Revelation, but ONLY in Revelation, which was written quite a while after the rest of the Bible and not at all close to when the view of Satan was different in Job. In the OT, God was shown to be responsible for everything. It was only in the NT that it began to be seen as the devil sending lying spirits and the like.

And if you notice the names of specific churches in Revelation, the "number of the best" being the number of a man, and the symbolism, it's clear that it was a symbolic message to the Christians in the churches of the time saying "Yeah Nero's persecuting us and he sucks, but he'all get justice upon him one day", because if it was said explicitly and not symbolically John would have been killed.

I see no denial of the Genesis account anywhere in the OT.
The Book of Job mentions Satan as questioning mankind's obedience to God and calling it selfishly motivated.
Job is permitted to respond to that accusation. Later Jess responded to it in via obedience to God and rejected all offers of material Earthly glories. That proved Satan a Liar as did Job's refusal to curse God to his face.

There are definitely references to Satan in other books in the OT apart from Job and it isn't in his usage of a snake as a puppet.

1 Chronicles 21:1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.

Psalms 109:6 Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand.

Zechariah 3:1,2 And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him. And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?

Isaiah 14:12-14 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

In the book Ezekiel, the description is commonly believed to be that of Satan indirectly referred to a king of tyre.

11 Moreover the word of the Lord came unto me, saying, 12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord God;

Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God;
every precious stone was thy covering,
the sardius, topaz, and the diamond,
the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper,
the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold:
the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes
was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so:
thou wast upon the holy mountain of God;
thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created,
till iniquity was found in thee.
16 By the multitude of thy merchandise
they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned:
therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God:
and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub,
from the midst of the stones of fire.
17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty,
thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness:
I will cast thee to the ground,
I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities,
by the iniquity of thy traffick;
therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee,
it shall devour thee,
and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth
in the sight of all them that behold thee.
19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee:
thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more. — [Ezekiel 28:11-19](https://tinyurl.com/Ezekiel-28)

Satan's demons are also mentioned in the OT:

Psalm 106:36 They served their idols and they became a hindrance to them; 37 they sacrificed their sons and their daughters to the demons. 38 they poured out innocent blood, the blood of their sons and daughters, whom they sacrificed to the idols of Canaan; and the land was polluted with blood.

The use of objects as puppets by angels can be seen occurring again in the incident between Balaam and Balak when the Donkey was forced to speak.

The burning bush on Sinai itself was not speaking-it was an angel since the Law was transmitted by angels. The book of Revelation can be interpreted in the way you choose to do. However, most theologians do not give it the mundane fear motivated meaning that you are imposing on it. Which makes one wonder why you are doing so

yeshuaslavejeff · Nov 2, 2016

ClothedInGrace said:
Evidence for Genesis being true? I believe so.

Side question... Why is aging even a thing? Why do cells just start to shut down? If the goal of life according to evolution is to survive the longest, then why can't our cells survive past 120 years? They just give up, but why? Something to think about.

Yes.
Everything we know verifies YHWH CREATED the universe and the world and all living things.
The enemy of God does not like this, so began thousands of years ago to discredit God'S WORD,
and for the most of the world succeeded (most of the world people NEVER learn the truth, ever, and continue worshiping and serving idols and demons).
Some governments LOVE THIS, and so propogate anti-BIBLE views every day, everywhere on earth that they can. (only in some local places they are not allowed to, but even there they still try).

Why cells break down and 'give up' has been studied to death,
and some aspects are well known by a few
.
It is exactly as YHWH PLANNED and PURPOSED.

Meowzltov · Nov 5, 2016

4x4toy said:
Still waiting for when evolution worked that in ?

Science has never figured out what that "certain something" is that makes the difference between the same body when it is living verses when it is dead.

SkyWriting · Nov 19, 2016

ClothedInGrace said:
Side question... Why is aging even a thing? Why do cells just start to shut down? If the goal of life according to evolution is to survive the longest, then why can't our cells survive past 120 years? They just give up, but why? Something to think about.

If the goal is to adapt, then limited lifespan makes room for adapted offspring.
Like, if the goal if for "houses to exist", then death allows for children to move into empty houses.

Wunderlust · Nov 24, 2016

Aging is an evolutionary adaption. You can think of evolution a lot like the economy. If you invest all your money in a few stocks, you run a greater risk of disaster.

If all your money is invested in the corn industry, you will be unable to adapt to a market if they corn industry collapses. But, if you have money in thousands of different stocks, you can stand different challenges that arise.

In the case of evolution, that means have individuals with less genetic diversity. If you have all your money in the horse and buggy industry, you'll lose out when a car comes around. Same things with genetics, you want lots of individuals, lots of diversity.

Wunderlust · Nov 24, 2016

Open Heart said:
Science has never figured out what that "certain something" is that makes the difference between the same body when it is living verses when it is dead.

That's because it is a philosophical concept, not a scientific one. Something is generally considered living when it is self maintaining and dead when it is not longer able to repair itself.

Wunderlust · Nov 24, 2016

SkyWriting said:
If the goal is to adapt, then limited lifespan makes room for adapted offspring.
Like, if the goal if for "houses to exist", then death allows for children to move into empty houses.

Yeah - Imagine a company that hires all its employees in 1950, but they live forever, never quit, never fired, and no one has been hired since 1950. They would be unable to adapt to changes in society, or in the case of evolution, changes in the environment.

Companies are like populations of animals, it is good that they can get rid of old ones and hire new ones to deal with changes in the economy.

Wunderlust · Nov 24, 2016

Radrook said:
Your fantasy of evolution worked nothing in. Adaptation and change happens within species. But the drastic leaps you imagine are pure fantasy based on wishful thinking.

Adaptations and change don't happen within species. Species are just a mental concept. There comes a point when there are enough genetic changes within groups of a species is no longer able to reproduce.

For example, donkeys and horses were once the same species. Their ancestors became separated and over time, they were no longer able to successfully hybridize again. You can produce a mule, so we know they are related, and were once able to reproduce together, but the mule cannot reproduce.

Radrook · Nov 24, 2016

Wunderlust said:
Adaptations and change don't happen within species. Species are just a mental concept. There comes a point when there are enough genetic changes within groups of a species is no longer able to reproduce.

For example, donkeys and horses were once the same species. Their ancestors became separated and over time, they were no longer able to successfully hybridize again. You can produce a mule, so we know they are related, and were once able to reproduce together, but the mule cannot reproduce.

You are contradicting yourself.

Wunderlust · Nov 24, 2016

Radrook said:
You are contradicting yourself.

That's a useless post. If you are going to make such a claim, you need to explain why you think I am contradicting myself.

Radrook · Nov 24, 2016

Wunderlust said:
That's a useless post. If you are going to make such a claim, you need to explain why you think I am contradicting myself.

Well, I figured you would reexamine what you said and realize the contradiction. You claim species do not evolve and then claim that they do evolve and eventually separate into two species.

yeshuaslavejeff · Nov 24, 2016

Other than poisoning by white man techonology and 'progress'
what
animal has stopped reproducing the way YHWH created it to ?

Wunderlust said:
There comes a point when there are enough genetic changes within groups of a species is no longer able to reproduce.

Wunderlust · Nov 24, 2016

Radrook said:
Well, I figured you would reexamine what you said and realize the contradiction. You claim species do not evolve and then claim that they do evolve and eventually separate into two species.

I didn't claim species do not evolve. I said that adaptations and evolution do not occur in species, because species are simply a philosophical construction. Adaptations and evolution occur within populations, sometimes to the point they are not longer considered "species" based on our views. We can define "species" as groups that can only interbred among themselves, or which appear radically different.

It is obvious you accept this notion of "micro-evolution", in which population groups do change over time due based on environmental factors, but that they never form so-called new species. It is a clever way to argue that God created "kinds" and "groups" of individuals, but they never form new groups.

The problem is that certain groups of can interbred. We call tigers tigers because they look like tigers and lions lions because they look like lions. They really do not interbred, but humans have interbred them and it is possible because they are closely related. It's the same ways with donkeys and horses in making mules.

Wunderlust · Nov 24, 2016

yeshuaslavejeff said:
Other than poisoning by white man techonology and 'progress'
what
animal has stopped reproducing the way YHWH created it to ?

Your post is so devoid of such basic information about biology that I am unable to respond.

yeshuaslavejeff · Nov 24, 2016

Also, you are wrong and have no answer.
There is none.

Wunderlust said:
Your post is so devoid of such basic information about biology that I am unable to respond.

Wunderlust · Nov 24, 2016

yeshuaslavejeff said:
Also, you are wrong and have no answer.
There is none.

Well, obviously, the answer is Jesus. Or what the loudest person in tells you.

yeshuaslavejeff · Nov 24, 2016

Re-check what Scripture says:
the "still small voice" , NOT THE LOUDEST.

Y'SHUA (Jesus) created all life to reproduce exactly as it does, after its own kind.

Satan introduced evolution to dissuade little children away from their parents, and so parents would not care about their children.

Wunderlust said:
Well, obviously, the answer is Jesus. Or what the loudest person in tells you.

Wunderlust · Nov 24, 2016

yeshuaslavejeff said:
Re-check what Scripture says:
the "still small voice" , NOT THE LOUDEST.

I don't recall that passage. Is that proverbs?

Y'SHUA (Jesus)

We are writing in English here, I am not sure why you are capitalizing odd and unnecessary spelling of words that look like Jesus.

created all life to reproduce exactly as it does, after its own kind.

Would you like to explain why a tiger and a lion can have a child? Or a donkey and a horse?

Satan introduced evolution to dissuade little children away from their parents, and so parents would not care about their children.

Are you saying that Satan created the process of evolution or the theory of it? You are quite fascinating.

SkyWriting · Nov 24, 2016

Wunderlust said:
Yeah - Imagine a company that hires all its employees in 1950, but they live forever, never quit, never fired, and no one has been hired since 1950. They would be unable to adapt to changes in society, or in the case of evolution, changes in the environment. Companies are like populations of animals, it is good that they can get rid of old ones and hire new ones to deal with changes in the economy.

I don't see why a company couldn't adapt.
Retired business advisors would seem to fit
most of your criteria and are among the
most adaptable for changing environments.

SkyWriting · Nov 24, 2016

Wunderlust said:
Adaptations and change don't happen within species. Species are just a mental concept.

Actually individuals adapt and change during their lifetime.
Then they pass on knowledge to their kids.
Then they change even more, and die.
But like you say....it's all a mental exercise.

Does Aging Prove Genesis Is True?

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