Does a Sinner Need to DO Anything to Get Saved?

[Dave-W]

but some "theology" can be very bad for you, and even soul damning!

Indeed. That is why the CORRECT theology is important.

 

[Micah888]

They’re all verbs. Actions, even.

And yet not works.

 

[dreadnought]

And Jesus says that the sinner must first repent to obtain forgiveness without which you cannot be born again

I don't think it makes much sense to forgive someone for a sin they are still committing.

 

[Alpha.Omega]

I don't think it makes much sense to forgive someone for a sin they are still committing.

say what?

 

[dreadnought]

say what?

If you come over to my place every morning and kick me in the shin, I will forgive you - as soon as you stop kicking me in the shin.

 

[Alpha.Omega]

If you come over to my place every morning and kick me in the shin, I will forgive you - as soon as you stop kicking me in the shin.

maybe you don't understand the forgiveness of the God of the Bible, and His plan of salvation?

 

[dreadnought]

maybe you don't understand the forgiveness of the God of the Bible, and His plan of salvation?

I think you will find the Lord disciplines us when we sin. It is for our own good.

 

[thecolorsblend]

And yet not works.

Either way, they make mincemeat out of "sola fide", eh? Eh, Micah888? They make minceameat out of "sola fide", eh?

 

[BNR32FAN]

maybe you don't understand the forgiveness of the God of the Bible, and His plan of salvation?

So why do you keep calling me ‘Lord, Lord!’ when you don’t do what I say? I will show you what it’s like when someone comes to me, listens to my teaching, and then follows it. It is like a person building a house who digs deep and lays the foundation on solid rock. When the floodwaters rise and break against that house, it stands firm because it is well built. But anyone who hears and doesn’t obey is like a person who builds a house right on the ground, without a foundation. When the floods sweep down against that house, it will collapse into a heap of ruins.

Luke 6:43-49

What good is it, dear brothers and sisters, if you say you have faith but don’t show it by your actions? Can that kind of faith save anyone?

James 2:14

For the Kingdom of God is not just a lot of talk; it is living by God’s power.

1 Corinthians 4:20

Then he said, “I tell you the truth, unless you turn from your sins and become like little children, you will never get into the Kingdom of Heaven.

Matthew18:3

 

[Alpha.Omega]

So why do you keep calling me ‘Lord, Lord!’ when you don’t do what I say? I will show you what it’s like when someone comes to me, listens to my teaching, and then follows it. It is like a person building a house who digs deep and lays the foundation on solid rock. When the floodwaters rise and break against that house, it stands firm because it is well built. But anyone who hears and doesn’t obey is like a person who builds a house right on the ground, without a foundation. When the floods sweep down against that house, it will collapse into a heap of ruins.

Luke 6:43-49

What good is it, dear brothers and sisters, if you say you have faith but don’t show it by your actions? Can that kind of faith save anyone?

James 2:14

For the Kingdom of God is not just a lot of talk; it is living by God’s power.

1 Corinthians 4:20

Then he said, “I tell you the truth, unless you turn from your sins and become like little children, you will never get into the Kingdom of Heaven.

Matthew18:3

what are these passages meant to teach here for what I have said?

 

[Alpha.Omega]

I think you will find the Lord disciplines us when we sin. It is for our own good.

I said, "And Jesus says that the sinner must first repent to obtain forgiveness without which you cannot be born again". This is for an unsaved sinner, but can extent to the saved as well. There are some who teach falsely, that only "faith" is required to be saved, and no "repentance"

 

[Micah888]

Either way, they make mincemeat out of "sola fide", eh? Eh, Micah888? They make minceameat out of "sola fide", eh?

Not really. We will let the Lord clarify the matter (Jn 6:28,29):

Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Of course we all know that believing is not a "work" per se. But since these people needed to learn about sola fide, Christ made believing a metaphorical "work". But how much "work" does it take to trust God and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ?

That believing is really not a work is clarified by Paul:

But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works...(Rom 4:5,6)

So here is the truth about sola fide.

1. Believing (faith in Christ and His finished work) is NOT a work in the eyes of God.

2. Works do not justify but faith justifies the sinner.

3. Justification means that God imputes the righteousness of Christ to the one who believes.

 

[thecolorsblend]

1. Believing (faith in Christ and His finished work) is NOT a work in the eyes of God.

For the sake of discussion, I shall not dispute that.

2. Works do not justify but faith justifies the sinner.

3. Justification means that God imputes the righteousness of Christ to the one who believes.

Lovely sentiments, those.

However, it's also the total opposite of what you said earlier. Dave-W wrote...

Repentance, believing, and Calling on the Name of the Lord; are all requirements for salvation, and none of them are "works."

All of those things are actions. "Repentance" and "Calling on the Name of the Lord" specifically are actions which are not "believing".

So which is it? Is faith alone enough all by itself?

Or do we need to have include Dave-W's point about "Repentance" and "Calling on the Name of the Lord" too? If we have to do this, how does this not make mincemeat out of "sola fide"?

 

[BNR32FAN]

what are these passages meant to teach here for what I have said?

They are examples of people who believe but don’t obey. I’m not saying 100% obedience is required for salvation but there is a certain level of devotion that is produced by having faith.

 

[Call me Nic]

They are examples of people who believe but don’t obey. I’m not saying 100% obedience is required for salvation but there is a certain level of devotion that is produced by having faith.

You either 100% obey or your obedience isn't good enough in the eyes of God. Therefore, since no man can obey God perfectly, obedience to God is not required other than to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. Repenting from sins, obeying the commandments, etc are works.

 

[BNR32FAN]

You either 100% obey or your obedience isn't good enough in the eyes of God. Therefore, since no man can obey God perfectly, obedience to God is not required other than to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. Repenting from sins, obeying the commandments, etc are works.

So faith does not produce fruits then?

 

[BNR32FAN]

You either 100% obey or your obedience isn't good enough in the eyes of God. Therefore, since no man can obey God perfectly, obedience to God is not required other than to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. Repenting from sins, obeying the commandments, etc are works.

A faithful, sensible servant is one to whom the master can give the responsibility of managing his other household servants and feeding them. If the master returns and finds that the servant has done a good job, there will be a reward. I tell you the truth, the master will put that servant in charge of all he owns. But what if the servant is evil and thinks, ‘My master won’t be back for a while,’ and he begins beating the other servants, partying, and getting drunk? The master will return unannounced and unexpected, and he will cut the servant to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 24:45-51

 

[Call me Nic]

So faith does not produce fruits then?

Not always, no. Faith is faith, not a work. Faith is what justifies us before God, but works are what justify us before men. A man cannot tell another man is saved unless he bear the fruit of his faith, however, it doesn't mean he is not saved if he does not bear fruit; God judges the heart, not the outward appearance.

It is possible for a man to be saved but still live carnally.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Not always, no. Faith is faith, not a work. Faith is what justifies us before God, but works are what justify us before men. A man cannot tell another man is saved unless he bear the fruit of his faith, however, it doesn't mean he is not saved if he does not bear fruit; God judges the heart, not the outward appearance.

It is possible for a man to be saved but still live carnally.

Faith is translated from the Greek word pistis which also means faithfulness and fidelity.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Not always, no. Faith is faith, not a work. Faith is what justifies us before God, but works are what justify us before men. A man cannot tell another man is saved unless he bear the fruit of his faith, however, it doesn't mean he is not saved if he does not bear fruit; God judges the heart, not the outward appearance.

It is possible for a man to be saved but still live carnally.

“What good is it, dear brothers and sisters, if you say you have faith but don’t show it by your actions? Can that kind of faith save anyone? Suppose you see a brother or sister who has no food or clothing, and you say, “Good-bye and have a good day; stay warm and eat well”—but then you don’t give that person any food or clothing. What good does that do? So you see, faith by itself isn’t enough. Unless it produces good deeds, it is dead and useless. Now someone may argue, “Some people have faith; others have good deeds.” But I say, “How can you show me your faith if you don’t have good deeds? I will show you my faith by my good deeds.” You say you have faith, for you believe that there is one God. Good for you! Even the demons believe this, and they tremble in terror. How foolish! Can’t you see that faith without good deeds is useless?”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:14-20‬