Does a false prophet or Christ know that they are one? And do they believe in their own delusions?

[Neonap]

For some reason, my reply didn't go through. Here's the reply, True, true.. I mean ascetism in itself is a pure goal, but there are only few people who can pull it off for example what the Bible calls enouchs. But for the rest of us who have the desires, need to wait till marriage. That's how it's supposed to it and sadly we live in a society that doesn't seem sex as something sacred that much anymore. But extreme self denial can have devastating consequences... And for those who die for what they believe in, like the Bible in one verse that there seems a path right to man but only leads into destruction( I think that's how the verse goes)... I guess the saying Hell is paved with good intentions is a true one.

 

[ToBeLoved]

I really did not want to admit this, but I have schizophrenia. It's being treated now and I'm doing pretty well, but at the height of it all and when I had Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, I was practically teaching my own religion.

So unfortunately, I do know something about the subject.

Hi TheoryofForms I want to welcome you to CF, I hope that you meet friends here that strengthen and edify you in your walk with Christ. Please feel free to contact me via the 'Conversation' tab if you need someone to talk to.

There is a section of the forums for mental illness with quite a few categories Mental Health | Christian Forums Feel free to stop by, often there is someone who is going through a very hard time or even a crisis, so we can often help them feel better and share some verses with them that may make them feel a little stronger.

God bless you.

 

[ToBeLoved]

As for the OP question, I think it is a combination of both. Some are delusional for whatever reason and may really think they are serving God others I think are just trying to gain power over others or do it for financial reasons or many other reasons.

 

[Galatea]

I respectfully disagree with your interpretation of the verse "there is a way that seemeth right to a man, but it's path leads to destruction." In the context, the verse is referring to people believing in whatever god they create and whatever religion they cobble together and end up in Hell.

The Bible does not teach asceticism as something good. There are the verses about eunuchs and Paul talks about staying celibate if you can- but there is a great warning against asceticism in the sense of removing yourself and putting yourself in an ivory tower.

Colossians 2:20-23 "Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances (touch not; taste not; handle not; which are all to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men? Which things indeed have a show of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh."

These verses condemn cultish behaviors, but those dirty hermits in the Middle Ages, too. I think it is interesting to note that this form of asceticism has a SHOW of wisdom and humility.

Marriage is not a terrible thing, Paul says that he and Barnabas (or Silas, I can't recall which one) has the right to "lead around a wife" like Peter, but they were not called to be married.

I like the phrase "lead around a wife", because with all of his journeys, if Paul had a wife, she'd surely be lead around.

 

[Left]

Thank you. I will admit I have felt really uneasy about being a member of this forum. But 3-5 people have been really, really nice to me which has made it a little better.

I might also be guilty of jumping into a debate in another thread when I wasn't fully, 1000% sure of something myself. But if I get 'schooled', perhaps I will learn something from it. Sometimes my typing fingers work faster than my brain.

 

[Neonap]

I respectfully disagree with your interpretation of the verse "there is a way that seemeth right to a man, but it's path leads to destruction." In the context, the verse is referring to people believing in whatever god they create and whatever religion they cobble together and end up in Hell.

The Bible does not teach asceticism as something good. There are the verses about eunuchs and Paul talks about staying celibate if you can- but there is a great warning against asceticism in the sense of removing yourself and putting yourself in an ivory tower.

Colossians 2:20-23 "Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances (touch not; taste not; handle not; which are all to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men? Which things indeed have a show of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh."

These verses condemn cultish behaviors, but those dirty hermits in the Middle Ages, too. I think it is interesting to note that this form of asceticism has a SHOW of wisdom and humility.

Marriage is not a terrible thing, Paul says that he and Barnabas (or Silas, I can't recall which one) has the right to "lead around a wife" like Peter, but they were not called to be married.

I like the phrase "lead around a wife", because with all of his journeys, if Paul had a wife, she'd surely be lead around.

Ah, well.. you schooled me on that one haha, I pulled off a Marshall and put my spin on the verse, I guess that's what happens when your not well grounded on the Bible. But thanks for the correction, I'm still new to the Bible so that's why I'm going to Bible study haha. I used to remember the idea of asceticism, long ago used to appeal to me. I guess that's why it still kinda did seemed wise and a honorable thing to do. Marriage is a beautiful thing but sadly there are more divorces than a couple staying together for the long run.

 

[Neonap]

Thank you. I will admit I have felt really uneasy about being a member of this forum. But 3-5 people have been really, really nice to me which has made it a little better.

I might also be guilty of jumping into a debate in another thread when I wasn't fully, 1000% sure of something myself. But if I get 'schooled', perhaps I will learn something from it. Sometimes my typing fingers work faster than my brain.

Your fine, your feedback to my question was a great one and you seem very knowledgeable. Hey, we all don't know everything.. Sheesh I got schooled already lol so don't worry about it, we can always learn something from the people around us.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Well, yes. From the very beginning he misquoted God to Eve. He added to the word.

I find cults interesting, I see it as people trying to fill that longing in their souls for Heaven. I imagine Satan laughing at them in great derision, and Christ crying in great compassion.

I saw a documentary about Jim Jones. At the time in the seventies, people were really saddened by racial inequalities. They really wanted to live harmoniously. I kind of see cults as sham Heavens.

What is the name of the book?

The devil convinced Eve of the lie that she would not die if she broke God's Command.

"Ye shall not surely die." ~ The devil. (Genesis 3:4).​

Sin is transgression of the Law or God's Commandment (1 John 3:4).

"Ye shall not surely die" is a lie from the devil that is still being pushed by him today.

In other words, the devil is telling believers today that they cannot stop sinning in this life and that Jesus paid for all their future sin and they are saved (despite the breaking of God's commands). So don't worry about being holy or in walking upright with God. "Ye shall not surely die." The famous words by the devil in the beginning. Eve bought into that lie and many today are still buying into that same lie.

Paul says be not deceived, the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of God. This means Paul believes that one can be deceived into thinking that the unrightous can inherit the Kingdom of God. In fact, Hebrews 12:14 says without holiness no man shall see the Lord. Also, Jude 1:4 warns us believers about those who turn the grace of our God into a doctrine for immorality. Jude 1:4 says that these types of believers who justify sin have slipped in among faithful believers (and they were not aware of them). In other words, the most deceptive of all cults is the one that has infiltrated the ranks of true believers.

Also, cults do not get you to do something holy. That is ridiculous. Cults are a group that gets you to do something wrong or sinful. Sort of like committing suicide (Which is a sin - but to them it is a righteous act for God). "Yea, ye shall not surely die." (Genesis 3:4).


...

 

[REBEL CRUSADER]

I would suspect some do, and some are just nuts.

 

[Open Heart]

While some cult leaders are con artists (and there are con artists in Christian pulpits as well, draining parishioners of their finances), MOST cult leaders are completely convinced of what they teach.

There are different mental disorders that cause delusions, and "overvalued ideas." Even a mild paranoia can convince someone that the world is against them. There are Personality disorders involved that lead to narcissism and paranoia, etc. In extreme cases, psychosis can come into play. Mania in particular can lead a person to believe they are Jesus or a Bodhisattva or something along that line, and that they have a special revelation that is of the utmost importance, or secret information that is only for the chosen. Narcissistic Personality Disorder and Antisocial Personality Disorder are also quite high among cult leaders.

 

[Your Alli]

I ask because I have been studying the cult Heaven's Gate, a cult that committed mass suicide sometime in the late 1990s. The thing that intrigues me the most is the cult leader, from what I've researched and have gathered, I've come to the opinion that unlike many cult leaders, Marshall believed in what he was preaching. My question to you is how does someone become this deluded, in the past he had went to a seminar and studied the bible so I wonder where everything went wrong. There are possible hints in his past as to what the possible culprit could have been.. At a time in his own words( felt like his life was falling apart) his marriage with his wife had ended up in a divorce, If im not mistaken two years after that his father who was a minister had passed which of course took a toll on him. Later on as a music teacher left his job due to emotional problems. His friend also recalled a time where Marshall had told him that he had a vision about the beginning of the world. Now due to his venerable state, depression and mental breakdown, this is the event that in my opinion led him astray. There are differing accounts to this but, he had met this nurse named Bonnie nettles who had changed his whole outlook on things and convinced him that he had a purpose. I personally believe the account where his sister had said that he was recovering from a heart attack and had a near death experience, and in the hospital is where Bonnie told him that God kept him alive for a purpose; a mission. His sister recalled how she had a major influence on him. But I'm not going to get into much detail since I've given much already but on to my questions. In my opinion Marshall didn't seem selfish in a sense that it would benefit him. Fame, sex, money, etc etc. He even had himself castrated alonside a few other followers because the group required that you give up on the bodies desires.(Not all the men in the cult had gotten castrated) When I look at the man known as Marshall Applewhite, I see a person who sincerely believed in his own delusional mission to be a messiah to a world that seemed corrupt and very dark. A broken man who thought he had good intentions; promising a way to heaven but tragically was deceived by the thing he thought he was against.. Satan. I just wonder what led him to his delusional thinking? We know there is a spiritual side to things, could Satan have been the culprit? Possession? Could have Satan had deceived him with this false vision that he had?​

You question his delusion ...

Christ came ... Started this cult ...We call it Christianity.

Christ whose earthly name is Jesus, stated don't think I've come to abolish the Law ... Rather I've come to fullfill.

So Christ came to fullfill words given to us from as early as Moses. Centuries of Spirituality fulfilled by one man ... Christ.

Imagine mentally how obedient He must have been to God the Father.

No other man, is required to endure such a fate.

Man will try and fail, they will. (Satan, as you may say ...lol)

We are to live believing in Christ, and that He now exist with God the Father in Heaven.



Your Alli

 

[timewerx]

I ask because I have been studying the cult Heaven's Gate, a cult that committed mass suicide sometime in the late 1990s. The thing that intrigues me the most is the cult leader, from what I've researched and have gathered, I've come to the opinion that unlike many cult leaders, Marshall believed in what he was preaching. My question to you is how does someone become this deluded, in the past he had went to a seminar and studied the bible so I wonder where everything went wrong. There are possible hints in his past as to what the possible culprit could have been.. At a time in his own words( felt like his life was falling apart) his marriage with his wife had ended up in a divorce, If im not mistaken two years after that his father who was a minister had passed which of course took a toll on him. Later on as a music teacher left his job due to emotional problems. His friend also recalled a time where Marshall had told him that he had a vision about the beginning of the world. Now due to his venerable state, depression and mental breakdown, this is the event that in my opinion led him astray. There are differing accounts to this but, he had met this nurse named Bonnie nettles who had changed his whole outlook on things and convinced him that he had a purpose. I personally believe the account where his sister had said that he was recovering from a heart attack and had a near death experience, and in the hospital is where Bonnie told him that God kept him alive for a purpose; a mission. His sister recalled how she had a major influence on him. But I'm not going to get into much detail since I've given much already but on to my questions. In my opinion Marshall didn't seem selfish in a sense that it would benefit him. Fame, sex, money, etc etc. He even had himself castrated alonside a few other followers because the group required that you give up on the bodies desires.(Not all the men in the cult had gotten castrated) When I look at the man known as Marshall Applewhite, I see a person who sincerely believed in his own delusional mission to be a messiah to a world that seemed corrupt and very dark. A broken man who thought he had good intentions; promising a way to heaven but tragically was deceived by the thing he thought he was against.. Satan. I just wonder what led him to his delusional thinking? We know there is a spiritual side to things, could Satan have been the culprit? Possession? Could have Satan had deceived him with this false vision that he had?​

This problem is a lot more extensive than you think.

Even if you teach in the wrong context even just a few, would that make you a false prophet/teacher already?

Different Christian denominations disagree on a lot of interpretations, context etc. Obviously one of them is probably right, the rest is wrong.

So who is right, who is wrong?

We get back to your question. The answer is they don't believe they are deceived (because if they do believe they are deceived, they would change their denomination).

The problem is much closer than you think. It could be your denomination, unless you can prove to me, everyone else is wrong and deceived.

No, I didn't say it so can actually prove to me otherwise. I said that to prove my point about the differences in the denominations in Christianity.

Do we have to see fire to tell something is on fire or the smell would suffice?

 

[MayMcFlurry]

I really did not want to admit this, but I have schizophrenia. It's being treated now and I'm doing pretty well, but at the height of it all and when I had Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, I was practically teaching my own religion.

So unfortunately, I do know something about the subject.

I do not have Schizophrenia but as a result of Complex Post Traumatic Stress Disorder I had a transient psychotic episode (lasted about six months) before anyone realized what was going on, and I have to definitely agree with you that I was acting pretty cultish at the time thinking I was some great spiritual shamanic healer with loads of supernatural abilities... Glad that's over now.

 

[MrNoodle]

In reply to the questioning the "cult leader" first post. I say there are many religions in this world that seem crazy to me. But just because I have my choice of faith that differs from theirs. It does not mean that theirs is not the truth to them, just as mine is true to me. I say that we should not judge them, but instead accept their choice. Because as long as they made their choice as an act of true free will. Then they were in the right to believe in whatever they did. However when the term cult is involved you also have to question if free will was actually free will. But its impossible to know that truth when their souls flew away on a spaceship hidden in the cloud behind the Hale bopp asteroid. -lol

 

[Anguspure]

I ask because I have been studying the cult Heaven's Gate, a cult that committed mass suicide sometime in the late 1990s. The thing that intrigues me the most is the cult leader, from what I've researched and have gathered, I've come to the opinion that unlike many cult leaders, Marshall believed in what he was preaching. My question to you is how does someone become this deluded, in the past he had went to a seminar and studied the bible so I wonder where everything went wrong. There are possible hints in his past as to what the possible culprit could have been.. At a time in his own words( felt like his life was falling apart) his marriage with his wife had ended up in a divorce, If im not mistaken two years after that his father who was a minister had passed which of course took a toll on him. Later on as a music teacher left his job due to emotional problems. His friend also recalled a time where Marshall had told him that he had a vision about the beginning of the world. Now due to his venerable state, depression and mental breakdown, this is the event that in my opinion led him astray. There are differing accounts to this but, he had met this nurse named Bonnie nettles who had changed his whole outlook on things and convinced him that he had a purpose. I personally believe the account where his sister had said that he was recovering from a heart attack and had a near death experience, and in the hospital is where Bonnie told him that God kept him alive for a purpose; a mission. His sister recalled how she had a major influence on him. But I'm not going to get into much detail since I've given much already but on to my questions. In my opinion Marshall didn't seem selfish in a sense that it would benefit him. Fame, sex, money, etc etc. He even had himself castrated alonside a few other followers because the group required that you give up on the bodies desires.(Not all the men in the cult had gotten castrated) When I look at the man known as Marshall Applewhite, I see a person who sincerely believed in his own delusional mission to be a messiah to a world that seemed corrupt and very dark. A broken man who thought he had good intentions; promising a way to heaven but tragically was deceived by the thing he thought he was against.. Satan. I just wonder what led him to his delusional thinking? We know there is a spiritual side to things, could Satan have been the culprit? Possession? Could have Satan had deceived him with this false vision that he had?​

The disciple Judas Iscariot is a good example of a man who genuinely believed that what he was doing was the right thing, he was one of the inner circle of disciples, and he even fulfilled a couple of major messianic prophecies while he was doing his thing under the influence of the evil one.

Nevertheless; Satan entered into him (John 13).

Perhaps it should serve as a warning to us all that it is indeed possible to depart from the way to the terrible point of murder and destruction.

 

[dqhall]

I ask because I have been studying the cult Heaven's Gate, a cult that committed mass suicide sometime in the late 1990s. The thing that intrigues me the most is the cult leader, from what I've researched and have gathered, I've come to the opinion that unlike many cult leaders, Marshall believed in what he was preaching. My question to you is how does someone become this deluded, in the past he had went to a seminar and studied the bible so I wonder where everything went wrong. There are possible hints in his past as to what the possible culprit could have been.. At a time in his own words( felt like his life was falling apart) his marriage with his wife had ended up in a divorce, If im not mistaken two years after that his father who was a minister had passed which of course took a toll on him. Later on as a music teacher left his job due to emotional problems. His friend also recalled a time where Marshall had told him that he had a vision about the beginning of the world. Now due to his venerable state, depression and mental breakdown, this is the event that in my opinion led him astray. There are differing accounts to this but, he had met this nurse named Bonnie nettles who had changed his whole outlook on things and convinced him that he had a purpose. I personally believe the account where his sister had said that he was recovering from a heart attack and had a near death experience, and in the hospital is where Bonnie told him that God kept him alive for a purpose; a mission. His sister recalled how she had a major influence on him. But I'm not going to get into much detail since I've given much already but on to my questions. In my opinion Marshall didn't seem selfish in a sense that it would benefit him. Fame, sex, money, etc etc. He even had himself castrated alonside a few other followers because the group required that you give up on the bodies desires.(Not all the men in the cult had gotten castrated) When I look at the man known as Marshall Applewhite, I see a person who sincerely believed in his own delusional mission to be a messiah to a world that seemed corrupt and very dark. A broken man who thought he had good intentions; promising a way to heaven but tragically was deceived by the thing he thought he was against.. Satan. I just wonder what led him to his delusional thinking? We know there is a spiritual side to things, could Satan have been the culprit? Possession? Could have Satan had deceived him with this false vision that he had?​

Many people suffer delusions about God. False prophets thought God wanted them to offer animal sacrifices. Hosea taught:

Hosea 6:6 For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings. (KJV)

Other people thought marriage is the only righteous path. While marriage is the only path for those who are married, Jesus and Paul are believed to have been celibate. A righteous Jew would not have sex with a woman he is not married to. Jesus did many miracles as he was ordained by God and not men. Paul was a diligent missionary to the Gentiles who was imperfect, but at times inspired by God as he had knowledge of the Gospel.

 

[miknik5]

How does one called by CHRIST....kill?

I came that ye may have life?
and in this world you will have trouble?

Does not translate to anything even close to what this man heard from GOD

 

[brinny]

I ask because I have been studying the cult Heaven's Gate, a cult that committed mass suicide sometime in the late 1990s. The thing that intrigues me the most is the cult leader, from what I've researched and have gathered, I've come to the opinion that unlike many cult leaders, Marshall believed in what he was preaching. My question to you is how does someone become this deluded, in the past he had went to a seminar and studied the bible so I wonder where everything went wrong. There are possible hints in his past as to what the possible culprit could have been.. At a time in his own words( felt like his life was falling apart) his marriage with his wife had ended up in a divorce, If im not mistaken two years after that his father who was a minister had passed which of course took a toll on him. Later on as a music teacher left his job due to emotional problems. His friend also recalled a time where Marshall had told him that he had a vision about the beginning of the world. Now due to his venerable state, depression and mental breakdown, this is the event that in my opinion led him astray. There are differing accounts to this but, he had met this nurse named Bonnie nettles who had changed his whole outlook on things and convinced him that he had a purpose. I personally believe the account where his sister had said that he was recovering from a heart attack and had a near death experience, and in the hospital is where Bonnie told him that God kept him alive for a purpose; a mission. His sister recalled how she had a major influence on him. But I'm not going to get into much detail since I've given much already but on to my questions. In my opinion Marshall didn't seem selfish in a sense that it would benefit him. Fame, sex, money, etc etc. He even had himself castrated alonside a few other followers because the group required that you give up on the bodies desires.(Not all the men in the cult had gotten castrated) When I look at the man known as Marshall Applewhite, I see a person who sincerely believed in his own delusional mission to be a messiah to a world that seemed corrupt and very dark. A broken man who thought he had good intentions; promising a way to heaven but tragically was deceived by the thing he thought he was against.. Satan. I just wonder what led him to his delusional thinking? We know there is a spiritual side to things, could Satan have been the culprit? Possession? Could have Satan had deceived him with this false vision that he had?​

My question to you is how does someone become this deluded

Because that someone chooses to.

 

[miknik5]

In response to above post...and because of that someone did not keep before him what he began in

We were told to REMAIN in HIM

It's the difference between
1 John 2 (those who remain in HIM) and
2 John 1 ;(those who don't )


Not by power or by might sayeth THE LORD, byt by MY SPIRIT

Many "go out" and by what they do ( by their own spirit) manifest that they did not truly know of whose SPIRIT they claim to be

 

[toLiJC]

I ask because I have been studying the cult Heaven's Gate, a cult that committed mass suicide sometime in the late 1990s. The thing that intrigues me the most is the cult leader, from what I've researched and have gathered, I've come to the opinion that unlike many cult leaders, Marshall believed in what he was preaching. My question to you is how does someone become this deluded, in the past he had went to a seminar and studied the bible so I wonder where everything went wrong. There are possible hints in his past as to what the possible culprit could have been.. At a time in his own words( felt like his life was falling apart) his marriage with his wife had ended up in a divorce, If im not mistaken two years after that his father who was a minister had passed which of course took a toll on him. Later on as a music teacher left his job due to emotional problems. His friend also recalled a time where Marshall had told him that he had a vision about the beginning of the world. Now due to his venerable state, depression and mental breakdown, this is the event that in my opinion led him astray. There are differing accounts to this but, he had met this nurse named Bonnie nettles who had changed his whole outlook on things and convinced him that he had a purpose. I personally believe the account where his sister had said that he was recovering from a heart attack and had a near death experience, and in the hospital is where Bonnie told him that God kept him alive for a purpose; a mission. His sister recalled how she had a major influence on him. But I'm not going to get into much detail since I've given much already but on to my questions. In my opinion Marshall didn't seem selfish in a sense that it would benefit him. Fame, sex, money, etc etc. He even had himself castrated alonside a few other followers because the group required that you give up on the bodies desires.(Not all the men in the cult had gotten castrated) When I look at the man known as Marshall Applewhite, I see a person who sincerely believed in his own delusional mission to be a messiah to a world that seemed corrupt and very dark. A broken man who thought he had good intentions; promising a way to heaven but tragically was deceived by the thing he thought he was against.. Satan. I just wonder what led him to his delusional thinking? We know there is a spiritual side to things, could Satan have been the culprit? Possession? Could have Satan had deceived him with this false vision that he had?​

on the one hand such things are concurrences of factors in the process of (the) struggle between the "Light" and the "darkness"

Daniel 9:26 "unto the end of the war desolations are determined"

on the other hand misbeliefs and heresies can lead to such results

2 Peter 2:1 "there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction"

Blessings