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Doer of the law

Discussion in 'Sabbath and The Law' started by bugkiller, Apr 30, 2017.

  1. bugkiller

    bugkiller Well-Known Member

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    No He did not.

    Now be a good boy and post where a man ask what can or must I do to have eternal life. I am ready for you.

    bugkiller
     
  2. Alithis

    Alithis Disciple of Jesus .

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    Actualky nither sunday nor saturday has anythibg to do with being a diciple of Jesus..its all man made traditions.
     
  3. Traveling teacher

    Traveling teacher Well-Known Member

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    Matthew 19:17
    16 And someone came to Him and said, “Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may eternal life?
    And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
     
  4. bugkiller

    bugkiller Well-Known Member

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    Right on cue. Please tell us why the man did not leave rejoicing when Jesus did not counter him.

    3 They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one. Ps 14

    One who kept the law in Israel was considered to be doing good.

    17 O Lord, why hast thou made us to err from thy ways Isa 63

    Issiah laments about not keeping the law. Note that is not just Issiah having the problem due to the word "us."

    23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Rom 3

    This shows no one keeps the law.

    Now you think you can keep the law better than the Pharisees. Really? How? by following the same law? Really? Jesus said one must exceed the Pharisees and scribes in performance. What you going to do? Say the Holy Spirit gives you this ability? Do you sin?

    bugkiller
     
  5. Traveling teacher

    Traveling teacher Well-Known Member

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    Thee are 2 ways to become self-righteous......

    1. first way is to think you are beter han ohers and look down on them......like the serpent decieved eve
    Thinking you are more righteous by keeping the law...
    "You will be like God"

    2. The other way is to claim there is no law therefore you have no sin.....and then you are under the same deception
    "You will be like God" without sin
    You could probably say this was Eves sin who denied there was any law from God on her life.....
    1john 2:4
    Whoever says i know Him and does not keep,his commandments is a liar.....
    1 john 1:10
    If we say we have not sinned we make Him a liar....

    Matthew 19:18-19
    To answer your question the man asked what he should do to inherit eternal life......
    Jesus told him to keep the 10 commandements....
    The man told Jesus he would have to kept the commandmensts...
    V.20 all these i have kept from my youth....
    JEsus then listed the 10th command that he had violated...
    10 command was coveting
    If he was willing to sell all he had he would have proved his faith by his works and be justified......
    Proving that he loved Jesus more than money......
    And salvation would have come to this man and yes he would have gone away rejoicing......
    As zichaes did who gave away half his wealth.....
     
  6. bugkiller

    bugkiller Well-Known Member

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    That "Him" and "His" is Jesus.
    Same book, next chapter we are o keep the commandments of Jesus -

    23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

    Jesus issued a new commandment -

    34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. Jn 13

    Jesus also said -

    10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. Jn 15

    Note that Jesus did not say keep His Father's commandments.
    Yeppers!!! that is correct.
    Opps! That kind of statement is not found in my version of the Bible. Would you mind quoting yours with the version identified?
    That little runt tax collector did no such thing. He did volunteer to do so though.

    Your problem is there is none that do good (keep the law) - Ps 14:3, 53:3 Isa 63:17, Rom 3:23. A violator will always be a violator and can be a forgiven violator. The flesh is not subject to the law of God. And recreated (born again) people do not normally sin. Had to include normally because of I Jn 1:9. So forget your law keeping, running from to grace and accept full time grace. Life is so much easier. Besides that it is absolutely wonderful to not live under constant condemnation.

    bugkiller
     
  7. Traveling teacher

    Traveling teacher Well-Known Member

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    Bro i bleieve we are half in agreement....
    I probably believe in grace more than anyone.......
    I just dont believe in this greasy cheesy grace that is going around in our country the last generation.....
    Where you can continue to sin and hold your salvation.....
    Shall we continue to sin that grace may abound...God forbid......
    romans 6:1

    The same God who inspired Paul by the Holy Spirit to write to Galations to tell them to stop justifing themselves by law keeping .........
    is the same God who inpired Paul by the Holy Spirit to enact strict laws and rules on Corinth.....

    Theses represent 2 churches in our society.....Galations are the legalist ...who need grace
    Corinth are the sinners who need warnings and judgements of the law.......
    not necesarliy the Law of Moses but acording to the Law of Christ with an offer of forgiveness for repenetence.....
    And if you read back in 2 Corinthians some repented...
    but they woudnt have repented if they had not had strong correction......
     
  8. Bob S

    Bob S Well-Known Member Supporter

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    That is simply not true. Jesus may have quoted some of the 10, but He also quoted the law of love, from the book of the law, and went on to tell the young ruler to give his possessions away and to follow Him. In other word we are to believe (follow) do not allow anything to stand between ourselves and Jesus (like money), love our fellow man and live a moral life. What Jesus didn't tell the ruler to do was to keep all the ritual laws in order to be saved.


    Really????

    Yes,all that Jesus quoted, not all 10.

    Maybe you should go back and look at the command not to covet. It was all about coveting what others possessed not about what he possessed

    Not quite my friend. He had also to follow his redeemer.
     
  9. Bob S

    Bob S Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Morality is forever. All the laws given to Israel dealing with morality are part of the law of love. Love is what is written on our hearts. Love has everything to do with Salvation. Because Abraham loved God, believed in Him and served Him he was justified in God's sight. This is so with everyone who has walked on this Earth.

    Israel was not saved by observing ritual laws. They were saved the same way I am. All the laws given to Israel, if Israel kept them, were for inheriting Canaan. They were not given as a requirement for Heaven. So, why are some so hell bent on observing all the ritual requirements of Torah? Those requirements are not a ticket to Heaven. Israel is no more, so keeping them will not instill the promise God originally gave to Moses and all the Israelites. Since they were not given as the plan of salvation why do some of you think you have to observe them? Jesus had the writers of the New Testament tell us how to live a life that will bring us eternal life. Again, I will paste those words for your consideration. May Go bless you as you study the real truth.

    This is how we KNOW we belong to the truth........believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. 1Jn3
     
  10. Traveling teacher

    Traveling teacher Well-Known Member

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    Misquote meant to say Jesus told the man to keep the commandments......

    Not trying to bring ovr ritual sacrifice...
    JUst keeping the law of Christ as listed in the NT

    Works are not for God to see
    As He knows evrything from the beginning...
    Works are for us to see and observe our faith to see if we are walking with God.......

    The problem i have with this greasy grace gospel is that it is distorted grace and excludes works of righteousness...

    Titus 2:11-12
    11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
    12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

    I guess the core of what I am tying to say is there is a false representation of who Jesus is and who God is....
    Many american christians think that there is a diferent God in the OT than the NT...
    They read and misquote and distort the NT acording to their own understanding...
    And have basicaly disaovowed the OT.....
    You would have to cut out all the OT scriptures in the NT

    this is what is portrayed to unbelievers n amrica and the West.......
    JEsus looks like a long haired skinny hippie half on drugs who talks like He is in the clouds half the time and acts like a woman the other half......
    He is more of a woman than a man......
    Futhermore He doesnt care about our sins....
    There are no requirements for salvation, no sacrifices....
    No repentence before or after salvation......
    And "all sins are the same".... This is a lie

    this is idolatry in the worse form.....
    I john 5:21
    Little children keep yourselves from idols

    King James Version (KJV)
    Public Domain
     
  11. bugkiller

    bugkiller Well-Known Member

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    Because of the problems inherent in religion which I can and will not support, I no longer attend.

    I do not like the greasy cheesy grace taught while the law is demanded in church. What is going on in mot churches these days is tell them what they want to hear in order to take them to the cleaners.

    bugkiller
     
  12. bugkiller

    bugkiller Well-Known Member

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    Essentially Jesus told the man you can not have eternal life and enter heaven by anything you do when the context of Scripture is applied.

    bugkiller
     
  13. Bob S

    Bob S Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The fact is Jesus didn't tell the man to keep the Sabbath or any of the rituals given only to Israel.

    And what, in your eyes, are the listed laws that you find in the NT? Did Jesus teach Sabbath keeping, all the feast days, sacrifices, not cutting sideburns, wearing certain fabrics and all the other laws found in Torah? Before you answer may I remind you that what Jesus did personally is not teaching.

    Works of the law or works as in good deeds?
    God sees both and I would like to know where you found that tidbit?

    The greatest thing that Jesus taught is to love others as He loves us. How much does Jesus love us? Well He laid down His life for mankind. By our fruits we will be known, known to others and to ourselves.

    That is an insult to our Savior. Grace is not cheap nor is it "greasy". It cost Jesus more suffering that we can ever imagine. The weight of all the sins of man were on His shoulders and you cal what He did for us to have eternal life greasy. I have never heard anyone ever teach that grace excludes right doing. Please enlighten me.

    Again, please enlighten me. If you are going to make general statements and use words like "many" I have to believe it is your personal belief sand not reality. If you are trying to tell me and others posting what you wrote just come out and say it don't beat around the bush. Just because I do not live by the laws given to only Israel does not mean that I disavow the OT.

    I would ask you to put your money where your mouth is ( give us some examples, come clean instead of the way you presented your case).

    How have I misrepresented Jesus and the Father.

    Who are the "many" that think there are different Gods for the different covenants?

    Were have I misquoted or distorted the NT?


    Where in this World do you live and where in this World do you get your knowledge of Christians in America? You have completely distorted us and made sick, sick accusations. I would be ashamed of myself for writing that. I will not lower myself to respond to that senseless garbage.
     
  14. listed

    listed are you?

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    What are works of righteousness?
     
  15. bugkiller

    bugkiller Well-Known Member

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    James talks about some in chapter 2 of his book. I do not think that is what the pro law people are talking about though.

    bugkiller
     
  16. bloodygrace

    bloodygrace Newb Member

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    Works that are motivated by love in contrast to those which are motivated by fear of punishment (law) or hope of reward (merit).
     
  17. listed

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    Our relationship with God isn't bout self righteousness. Self righteousness is trying to earn salvation. That is impossible because no one can keep the law in the flesh. God ordained it this way according to the OT Scripture. If it were quoted, it would only be dismissed or ignored.
    The commandments of Jesus, yes and amen. The commandments of His and our Father, no. John 15:10, 1 John 3:23.
    No one here that I know of is saying such a thing. What re you trying to say?
    Why did the man in Matthew 19 leave sorrowfully? Jesus didn't point out that he didn't keep the law as he said. No one here has ever named anyone who has kept the law. This would mean everyone is condemned to death the law demands. On-the-other-hand Christians can't be condemned by the law (Romans 8:1) because all are delivered from the law (Romans 7:6).

    When it comes to coveting the church parking lot is the car salesman's best friend. Are you wiling to give away half of your net worth? or even all of of it? I call you to prove it by doing so. If not aren't you (even all of us) guilty of the same not keeping the law? Where does that leave you (us)? I would say without eternal life if it can be earned by keeping the law.
     
  18. listed

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    No. Some of the Galatians became bewitched into following the law becoming legalistic by Judaizers just like some here are trying to do. I see no difference.
     
  19. listed

    listed are you?

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    James chapter 2 disagrees with you.
    Isn't this with the commentary promoting keeping the law called self righteousness?
    I disagree here because the intent is Jesus gave the ten commandments. The NT specifically Jesus in the Gospels disagree with the idea.
    No the NT disagrees with law promotion. The quoting of the OT doen't make it a requirement of the NT. I remind you of Jeremiah 31:31-33 which says the new covenant is different in content. Hebrews 8:6 says the new covenant is based on better promises, not law (performance)
    Promoting salvation is an earned rite privilege is being taught here. This is wrong. No grace oriented person here says a Christian can sin as a lifestyle.
     
  20. listed

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    I think of what is called Christian works more as fruit. The Christian doesn't labor to do these works just as a tree doesn't labor to bear fruit.
     
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