Doctrines of Demons my thoughts and yours?

[GoldenKingGaze]

Paul warned of doctrines of demons that would come after his passing.
1Ti 4:1 "And the Spirit expressly speaketh, that in latter times shall certain fall away from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and teachings of demons,
1Ti 4:2 in hypocrisy speaking lies, being seared in their own conscience," YLT.

I heard from a clergymen friend that the Roman Catholic church became too political by the eight or ninth century. Pope JPJ2 apologised for the death of Huss, saying he may have been right.

From my thoughts, the doctrines of demons are extremities. Burning heretics and witches. The return to extreme Roman penalties, Godless pagan cruelty. Hard justice, tax cheats put to death. The system of kings governing and owning vast lands. Violent knights. Patrimonious unity against coloured people. Moses' law like punishment for offenders , homosexuals, necromancers... Not showing justice balanced with mercy, care for people of low standing in terms of honour. Papal and kings' inquisition, authority unchecked. No free thought. The Thirty Years War.

Although the church was continuist there were seldom gifts or power of the Spirit working in churches.

There were revivals. Saints and venerated examples.

Instead of the Spirit's lead there were laws, one system for all, or excommunication.

When seeking Jesus' blood or something holy from touching it, the knights went on aggressive crusades.

The constitutions and justice systems coming from Europe are faulted with it. Naming, labeling, shaming, prison torture justice. Sometimes just prison itself.

Martin Luther began to shake loose from it and the shaking even changed the Roman Catholic church. Social immaturity and ridicule, flaming, making the consideration that "our" sins are okay and the others are outcast and infighting are other church remnants.

I am interested in other Christians' thoughts here.

 

[Micah888]

I am interested in other Christians' thoughts here.

Well the context tells us about two doctrines of demons: (1) forbidding to marry (commanding celibacy) and (2) commanding to abstain from meats (imposing dietary laws). These should have been included in your quotation.

We can extrapolate from these two to some others mentioned in Colossians 2 in connection with Gnosticism:

16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.

20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,

21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;

22 Which all are to perish with the using, after the commandments and doctrines of men?

23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

So what Paul is saying is that worshiping angels, asceticism, monasticism, celibacy, strict dietary laws, which are all the commandments and doctrines of men, are also the doctrines of demons.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Everything in context, always.

3 It is a trustworthy statement: if any man aspires to the office of [a]overseer, it is a fine work he desires to do. 2 [b]An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not addicted to wine [c]or pugnacious, but gentle, peaceable, free from the love of money. 4 He must be one who manages his own household well, keeping his children under control with all dignity 5 (but if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how will he take care of the church of God?), 6 and not a new convert, so that he will not become conceited and fall into the condemnation [d]incurred by the devil. 7 And he must have a good reputation with those outside the church, so that he will not fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

8 Deacons likewise must be men of dignity, not [e]double-tongued, [f]or addicted to much wine [g]or fond of sordid gain, 9 but holding to the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience.10 These men must also first be tested; then let them serve as deacons if they are beyond reproach. 11 [h]Women must likewise be dignified, not malicious gossips, but temperate, faithful in all things. 12 Deacons must be husbands of only one wife, and [i]good managers of their children and their own households. 13 For those who have served well as deacons obtain for themselves a [j]high standing and great confidence in the faith that is in Christ Jesus.

If a man wants to serve as a bishop/overseer, that's a good thing. These are the things that must apply to him to know that he is worthy to serve in the office. Deacons and important women in the Church likewise have requirements so that those selected will be suited for the office.

14 I am writing these things to you, hoping to come to you before long; 15 but [k]in case I am delayed, I write so that you will know how [l]one ought to conduct himself in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and support of the truth. 16 By common confession, great is the mystery of godliness:

He who was revealed in the flesh,
Was [m]vindicated [n]in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Proclaimed among the nations,
Believed on in the world,
Taken up in glory

I tell you this because I might not be able to come right away, so I want you to know how the Church should be conducted, because it is the foundation of Truth. And godliness based in Christ is primary

4
Apostasy
4 But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will [a]fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron, 3 men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth. 4 For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with gratitude; 5 for it is sanctified by means of the word of God and prayer.

But the Holy Spirit has explicitly told us that later some will fall away, paying attention to the doctrines of demons - hypocritical, liars, with seared consciences, forbidding marriage, advocating abstaining from food - for everything created by God is good and if it's received with prayer and thanksgiving, it is sanctified.

A Good Minister’s Discipline
6 In pointing out these things to the brethren, you will be a good servant of Christ Jesus, constantly nourished on the words of the faith and of the [b]sound doctrine which you have been following. 7 But [c]have nothing to do with worldly fables fit only for old women. On the other hand, discipline yourself for the purpose of godliness; 8 for bodily discipline is only of little profit, but godliness is profitable for all things, since it holds promise for the present life and also for the life to come. 9 It is a trustworthy statement deserving full acceptance. 10 For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.

Stay with the true faith and sound doctrine you have received, but discipline yourself in order to be godly. Bodily discipline is a little good, but even better is the godliness we get from it.

11 [d]Prescribe and teach these things. 12 Let no one look down on your youthfulness, but rather in speech, conduct, love, faith and purity, show yourself an example [e]of those who believe. 13 Until I come, give attention to the public reading of Scripture, to exhortation and teaching. 14 Do not neglect the spiritual gift within you, which was bestowed on you through prophetic utterance with the laying on of hands by the [f]presbytery. 15 Take pains with these things; be absorbed in them, so that your progress will be evident to all. 16 Pay close attention to yourself and to your teaching; persevere in these things, for as you do this you will [g]ensure salvation both for yourself and for those who hear you.

And so on, how Timothy is encouraged to pursue Godliness and serve God.



The main point here is that the Holy Spirit was explicit about what was meant by doctrines of demons. No interpretation or extrapolation necessary.

hypocritical, liars, with seared consciences, forbidding marriage, advocating abstaining from food

It means what it says.

We cannot assume that asceticism is "a doctrine of demons" based on this, because the same Paul who wrote this, also wrote of disciplining his own body, and immediately also encouraged Timothy to do the same.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Not eating certain foods... is only a little problem compared to burning people to death in the public square. These people after their deaths were sometimes canonized. It resembles the killing of prophets followed by the killer's descendants saying we should have honoured them. As Jesus mentioned in the Gospel.
Matthew 23:29-31.
Mat 23:29 'Woe to you, Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the sepulchres of the prophets, and adorn the tombs of the righteous,
Mat 23:30 and say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
Mat 23:31 So that ye testify to yourselves, that ye are sons of them who did murder the prophets; YLT

The odd little rules were followed by the grand wickedness.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Not eating certain foods... is only a little problem compared to burning people to death in the public square. These people after their deaths were sometimes canonized. It resembles the killing of prophets followed by the killer's descendants saying we should have honoured them. As Jesus mentioned in the Gospel.
Matthew 23:29-31.
Mat 23:29 'Woe to you, Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the sepulchres of the prophets, and adorn the tombs of the righteous,
Mat 23:30 and say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
Mat 23:31 So that ye testify to yourselves, that ye are sons of them who did murder the prophets; YLT

The odd little rules were followed by the grand wickedness.

I never said great wickedness did not follow.

We learn truths from Scripture and can use them to measure what happens in the world.

The request was only what that passage meant - and that was what I replied. Not to imply other truths might not exist.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

I never said great wickedness did not follow.

We learn truths from Scripture and can use them to measure what happens in the world.

The request was only what that passage meant - and that was what I replied. Not to imply other truths might not exist.

It was a reply to Micah888.

 

[~Anastasia~]

It was a reply to Micah888.

Very well.

Forgive me please then, it's a little hard to be sure. I was concerned if I did not reply and it was to me, it would seem I was ignoring.

(And my bad ... I've been very short on time and didn't double check ... I actually read it as a reply from what Micah said, not to him)

Anyway - sorry!