"Do your research"

chilehed

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Anyone ever found anything of value from such folks?
Only a reminder that the Dunning-Kruger effect means me too.

The haven't the slightest idea about
  • what it means to do research
  • how statistics works
  • how to recognize the validity of any experiment
  • how to recognize the validity of any experimental conclusion
  • how to not rip a valid conclusion totally of context and force it into a context that does not apply.
  • what the fancy scientific paper they read even means, much less what its significance is.
I had someone the other day yammering hysterically about how "out of 140,000 test subjects, 1,200 died within a year"; when I pointed out that that's a 0.8% death rate which is identical to the US annual death rate for 2019 he just started yammering about something else that was equally absurd.

This is a disease which has a robust arrogance at its core, and it's incredibly resistant to treatment.
 
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tas8831

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At best, it's very familiar from the paranormal world.

'Yes, yes, I know what the scientific consensus is, but look at this one study from Warsaw with a marginally significant result that has never been replicated. This means something!'
Ha!
 
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tas8831

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The OP Title reminds me of Potholer54's most recent video.
The one about sea level rise? That guy has way too much patience^_^
I love his take-downs of Crowder.
 
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tas8831

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I see it so often on this site, "Vaccines killed 400 people." oh give us the data, "I'm not going to do your work."
Yup. Classic - I do sometimes wonder if they use that out because at some level, they know that their sources are garbage.
 
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tas8831

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No, we don't expect you to provide thousands and thousands of webpages worth of research, we simply expect you to provide some manner of corroborating evidence, not just claims of evidence.

After all, a claim presented without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
Ayup.
 
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tas8831

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I think that those who know the truth are not here to push it on others. When you leave the work for the one who were asking proof, you make sure he is ready to hear the truth. Many people here just deny everything which is opposing their views no matter how waterproof your proofs are. So it’s waste of time, they already made up their mind about things. They can’t digest new information with open mind. ”In a time of information, being a ignorant is a choice” if you don’t do your own research, it’s your choice. It’s all there in www. But, for how long? Websites of independent journalists are (and have been!) disappearing very fast pace, so hurry up.
Paranoia, too.
Classic.
Curious - did you read the OP?
I detailed but one instance of my 'doing my own research' to check out a claim made by one of the 'do your own research' crowd.
I left out the part where I had asked my relative to show that the things I had presented debunking her claims were in error. Her response was to merely re-assert her original claims.
Because I know that my relative had NO FRIGGIN CLUE about the actual material that I had presented, which means that she did not understand the bit that she had copy-pasted in the first place, and only presented it because it was from a conspiracy nut page that she already "trusted."

'Independent journalists'? Like who - Tim Poole? The guy who, when visiting Sweden to "investigate" the perils of socialism, almost literally said "And you're a socialist, right?" every few sentences when taking to people?
Sheryl Atkisson? The genius that claimed the GUBMINT was deleting her 'research' files from the bottom to the top of each page, one character at a time because she didn't realize that her backspace key was stuck?
The clowns that claim viruses are not even real, that they are actually a symptom of disease caused by unhealthy lifestyles, and not the cause of them? That they are cellular debris, yet cannot how it is that bacteria, which are but a single cell, create "cellular debris" due to their unhealthy lifestyles, since they also have viruses that infect them?

Its funny - when I'm asked to support a claim, I present evidence. When conspiracy nuts/creationists are asked to present evidence, they hem and haw, post youtube videos (that they can neither understand now explain), make assertions and claim they are facts, etc.

Sorry - in the end, it seems like you're just one of them.
 
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loveofourlord

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Yup. Classic - I do sometimes wonder if they use that out because at some level, they know that their sources are garbage.

it's not even, "YOUR WRONG!!!."it's okay I want to see the evidence to be sure it's real their response YOU QUESTIONING ME!!!
 
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loveofourlord

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I think that those who know the truth are not here to push it on others. When you leave the work for the one who were asking proof, you make sure he is ready to hear the truth. Many people here just deny everything which is opposing their views no matter how waterproof your proofs are. So it’s waste of time, they already made up their mind about things. They can’t digest new information with open mind. ”In a time of information, being a ignorant is a choice” if you don’t do your own research, it’s your choice. It’s all there in www. But, for how long? Websites of independent journalists are (and have been!) disappearing very fast pace, so hurry up.

RIGHT....that's why it's often the guy making unsubstantiated claims to try to show that climate change is false, or that vaccines kill or some other nonsense that if true we would ACTUALLY want evidence, not just baseless claims. When we see this it's usually some person attacking or going after something with no evidence.
 
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tas8831

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No, we don't expect you to provide thousands and thousands of webpages worth of research, we simply expect you to provide some manner of corroborating evidence, not just claims of evidence.

After all, a claim presented without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
Which is why I suspect none of them actually produce any evidence when asked - they don't know what counts as evidence.
 
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tas8831

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Many people here just deny everything which is opposing their views no matter how waterproof your proofs are.
I suspect you are projecting.
Had you considered the possibility that your sources are not what they are claimed to be?
 
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tas8831

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Only a reminder that the Dunning-Kruger effect means me too.

The haven't the slightest idea about
  • what it means to do research
  • how statistics works
  • how to recognize the validity of any experiment
  • how to recognize the validity of any experimental conclusion
  • how to not rip a valid conclusion totally of context and force it into a context that does not apply.
  • what the fancy scientific paper they read even means, much less what its significance is.
I had someone the other day yammering hysterically about how "out of 140,000 test subjects, 1,200 died within a year"; when I pointed out that that's a 0.8% death rate which is identical to the US annual death rate for 2019 he just started yammering about something else that was equally absurd.

This is a disease which has a robust arrogance at its core, and it's incredibly resistant to treatment.
Indeed, and it is a shame on many levels.
 
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AV1611VET

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Which is why I suspect none of them actually produce any evidence when asked - they don't know what counts as evidence.
One of my favorite comebacks to someone claiming they don't have any evidence to support a Biblical event is: "keep looking."

If you can't find any, then:
  1. consider that no evidence was generated
  2. consider that the evidence was removed for legitimate reasons
  3. wait until your technology is sufficiently advanced to detect evidence
  4. make sure you're not misinterpreting or overlooking something that would count as evidence
Don't give up the ship prematurely.
 
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SkyWriting

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I find it ironic that the crowd that declares that they have 'done their research', upon being asked for verification/support for/evidence regarding their claims typically reply with a version of "do your own research"* almost never know what 'research' actually is, and never question the sources that provide them with the 'answers' that they want to hear.

The 'do your research'/'I did my research' mantra has become a common antic among anti-science types in general, from generic conspiracy nuts ('the WTC were demolished by Mossad agents using radiation-less mini-nukes planted in the basements that were able to direct their energy to exit at the precise location the planes struck'**) to antivaxxers ('the jab gave me herpes!'***) to creationists.

I was a 'victim' of such pseudocertain, Dunning-Kruger effect gibberish about a year ago.

A relative of mine, eager to support and defend the implicit claims of her new Messiah, Donald Trump, sought to own me by citing an article on ozone therapy to prove that Trump was right.
Right about what? Surely you remember when he suggested that 'we' are or should be looking into "injecting" disinfectants into our lungs or otherwise into the body in the famous press conference in which one of his people had just finished talking about using bleach and isopropyl alcohol to disinfect surfaces?

Almost immediately after he made that stupid claim, his acolytes began searching for ways to justify his stupidity, and the Twitterverse and Q-related goobers conjured up 'light therapy' and 'ozone therapy' - neither of which the Orange Messiah had mentioned - to own the libs.

Why? Because 1. these are or can be used as 'disinfectants' and 2. alt-med loons try to use these as 'therapies.'

My relative focused on ozone therapy, and presented me with a copy-pasted, unsourced rant about how it has been used for decades in India and elsewhere, so Trump was totally right, and that I should "do my own research" instead of listening to the MSM.
That alone was odd - my relative has an educational pedigree akin to Lauren Boebert's (though she did later go to college for art), while I have an earned doctorate from an accredited institution and have been in academia for decades and some of my research papers have been cited in popular textbooks and such.. but, OK..

So... First, I tried to find her source. It was pretty hard - when I googled phrases from what she had posted, I got many hits - to social media posts/discussion forums in which loons were copy-pasting it without question. What made it harder is that so many of these "researchers" do not seem to understand how copy-pasting works, and so apparently re-typed the whole thing (about 4 paragraphs) and invariably made typing errors - but I eventually found the "original" source, as best I could tell. I think it was a Q-related website, but there were no author names, no date, etc (really odd) and, of course, no references. Odd for a 'researcher', right?

Long story short, I eventually found the primary sources - one was a review paper from an obscure alt-med journal from India, in which the amazing benefits of ozone therapy were merely presented as fact with no real support; the other was from an otherwise fairly reliable online medical source which I found sad.

The paper from India had many references, most of which were not possible for me to locate. Of those I was able to locate, none indicated or implied that ozone could be used as an injection or inhalant therapy (this becomes important in a second). Most of the sources referred to using ozone as a 'spray' (I don't know what the appropriate medical term is) on surface wounds or in dentistry, so even if those applications were valid, they did not support the overall implications of the review paper, and thus did not at all support Trump's statement.
The online medical site article (which I will not name, as they completely re-wrote the article and added a disclaimer after I had made them aware of the following), while not as glowing in its support for ozone therapy, nevertheless presented it as a potential alternative treatment (though not specifically for Covid). I was shocked to find the following things in the article, however - 1. its primary source was the same kooky alt-med paper from India that I had initially found, and 2, it listed 3 examples of ozone being used in clinical trials for the treatment of various ailments. It was bad enough that this article, which had been written by an RN, MPH and 'reviewed for medical accuracy' by an MD, was used as a primary source, but when I looked up the clinical trials... wow...

Ozone was used in them, alright - but NOT as a therapeutic agent, but rather to stimulate inflammation in order to test OTHER drugs! I was shocked at how this was missed (the updated online article no longer mentions clinical trials)!

So, I wrote up my findings for my relative and she apologized for her unwarranted condescension and retracted her claim of support for Trump's dopiness re: disinfectants.

Wait - no she didn't. She told me I was just an arrogant academic and that I should stop being a sheep and blocked me on social media.

So much for the "I did my research" crowd. I've yet to encounter ANY such person who actually knows how to support a claim or actually do any kind of research, which to them appears to mean 'read something on social media/website that props up your prejudices'.

Anyone ever found anything of value from such folks?




* or, just as likely, that you are a 'sheep' or is 'under the control of the gubmint/MSM/tyrants' or a 'paid shill' for daring to question their cult's disinformation
** this was actually posited on a conspiracy theory forum on another Christian site
***actual entry (sans exclamation point) on VAERS


First you need to agree with them. Then continue listening and asking for more information and continue to agree - non-specifically. After you have gained their trust as a comrade, then you can slowly alter their perception on non-major points. Major points of reference can take years to turn around and you have to let those happen naturally.

This is all assuming you love them. If you don't love them then they are not the problem.
 
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Ophiolite

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Anyone ever found anything of value from such folks?
Yes. They have allowed me to practice being patient and they have provided justification for my continued use of blood pressure medicaiton.
 
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Opdrey

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I think that those who know the truth are not here to push it on others. When you leave the work for the one who were asking proof, you make sure he is ready to hear the truth. Many people here just deny everything which is opposing their views no matter how waterproof your proofs are. So it’s waste of time, they already made up their mind about things. They can’t digest new information with open mind. ”In a time of information, being a ignorant is a choice” if you don’t do your own research, it’s your choice. It’s all there in www. But, for how long? Websites of independent journalists are (and have been!) disappearing very fast pace, so hurry up.

If I may, for a moment: when someone claims to do their own research they take on the mantle of a researcher. And, sadly, researchers know that their primary job is to ALWAYS be able and willing to produce their research. They write endless papers about every jot and tittle of their research.

So when someone says "do your own research" when they are questioned they are NOT ACTING LIKE A REAL RESEARCHER. Since a real researcher wouldn't say that.

It is people just wanting to PLAY scientists rather than BE scientists.
 
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