Do your best to explain Romans 5

[SavedByGrace3]

Thing about faith is that faith has fruits. If you believe something, you will act accordingly. If you see a chasm before you, and you know it is there... will you walk forward into certain death? No. Because you believe. Such is faith... true faith.
Noah was warned of God about the flood. He believed and feared. He therefore, in faith, built and ark to save himself and his family.
One might say if you believe, you will act like you believe. If you act like you believe.. you will believe.

 

[corinth77777]

Man is not justified by obedience, but by spoken words. Out of the heart, the mouth speaks. What God has cleansed you shall not call common.
Matthew 12:37 For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”

People give themselves away as to who they really are by their spoken words. God keeps a record of them. An evil person, one who is not born again, has spoken many evil and blasphemous things before they do any evil actions. Words are spoken out from the heart, evil words proceed from evil thoughts.

Sound like you are really knit picking
Not saying that with intent to bother your zeal. However, you are reading to defend and there is no love behind your words which should be the outcome of our knowledge.

Man is not justified by obedience, but by spoken words. Out of the heart, the mouth speaks. What God has cleansed you shall not call common.
Matthew 12:37 For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”

We are allowed to think! It's great that you think! We are supposed to be thinking Christians.

Yes, but honestly I thought I deleted it....[smile]...I mean there is nothing wrong with it...But I already assumed what would happen...lol as it did if I left it on...For obviously you can read that is not all I got out of it. But Just from reading a couple of scripture ...those were all the thoughts that came to me for that quick sec. But I rethought to read context first.

 

[zoidar]

Man is not justified by obedience, but by spoken words.

Do you believe we are saved by believing in the fact that Jesus died for us on the cross? Or do you believe something more is needed? If something more, what is that something more?

 

[sdowney717]

Sound like you are really knit picking
Not saying that with intent to bother your zeal. However, you are reading to defend and there is no love behind your words which should be the outcome of our knowledge.

Man is not justified by obedience, but by spoken words. Out of the heart, the mouth speaks. What God has cleansed you shall not call common.
Matthew 12:37 For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”


Yes, but honestly I thought I deleted it....[smile]...I mean there is nothing wrong with it...But I already assumed what would happen...lol as it did if I left it on...For obviously you can read that is not all I got out of it. But Just from reading a couple of scripture ...those were all the thoughts that came to me for that quick sec. But I rethought to read context first.

You will either love the truth or not, seems anytime someone does not have the love for the truth, they start in on attacking motives as a distraction from the truth.

 

[corinth77777]

Sound like you are really knit picking
Not saying that with intent to bother your zeal. However, you are reading to defend and there is no love behind your words which should be the outcome of our knowledge.

Man is not justified by obedience, but by spoken words. Out of the heart, the mouth speaks. What God has cleansed you shall not call common.
Matthew 12:37 For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”


Yes, but honestly I thought I deleted it....[smile]...I mean there is nothing wrong with it...But I already assumed what would happen...lol as it did if I left it on...For obviously you can read that is not all I got out of it. But Just from reading a couple of scripture ...those were all the thoughts that came to me for that quick sec. But I rethought to read context first.

Oops there again I didn't finish my thoughts...haha....Oppsy will return...that first part posted by accident....lol...

 

[sdowney717]

Do you believe we are saved by believing in the fact that Jesus died for us on the cross? Or do you believe something more is needed? If something more, what is that something more?

Here were read heart and spoken words are what saves you, where is the more you are suggesting?

9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

 

[sdowney717]

Oops there again I didn't finish my thoughts...haha....Oppsy will return...that first part posted by accident....lol...

But it was in your heart or you would not have written it.

 

[corinth77777]

You will either love the truth or not, seems anytime someone does not have the love for the truth, they start in on attacking motives as a distraction from the truth.

Honestly I believe all those who are speaking now love the truth...But there is no love in Religion....not the type that should bring fellowship among those that trust God.

 

[zoidar]

Here were read heart and spoken words are what saves you, where is the more you are suggesting?

9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

Do you mean we are saved by faith and the words we speak? Would you please clarify?

As I see it the spoken words is the confession of Christ as Lord, making him Lord in our life. Then we are saved.

 

[corinth77777]

Yes, it was my heart but I didn't finish responding to what I posted in bold blue because I seen an "alert" come up. Even though it was my heart, I still needed to do my best to rewrite it in Love " and finding the best way not to cause dissension.

 

[sdowney717]

Do you mean we are saved by faith and the words we speak? Would you please clarify?

As I see it the spoken words is the confession of Christ as Lord, making him Lord in our life. Then we are saved.

I mean exactly what Romans 10 says, that is what being OBEDIENT to the message means.
This can not be a work, or it would NOT be grace.

 

[zoidar]

I mean exactly what Romans 10 says, that is what being OBEDIENT to the message means.
This can not be a work, or it would NOT be grace.

Ah .. this what I used to believe... but it made me confused because Jesus says we are to do some stuff, and not to do other stuff, to be saved. And Paul says the same thing. So I believe it to be true. A good word to sum this up "to do, and not to do", is the word "obedience".

 

[corinth77777]

How can you believe Romans 2, about the work of the law written in their hearts, be just about physical circumcision which is unimportant.

Galatians 5:6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.

Did I ever say it was just about physical circumcision?
This is an example of knit picking...and restating I said something that is clearly shown in the latter I could not intend to mean.
How can you have read the entire post and come to that conclusion?

The scripture you quoted has nothing to do with what I was about to share...
If you've been reading through the post for understanding you would know what we all think.

Circumcision as I said at the bottom referring to it as knowledge, was used as a way to to share how through Christ's Faithfulness a man is Justified.
The outcome is that the heart is clean because we walk in the Spirit....so that the outcome is that we naturally uphold the law.
As I was saying when you truly are walking in the Spirit and not in religion the outcome not only is love but fellowship with other believers.

Religion produces self righteousness. And when people are that way they look down on others....This is not an attack on your motive but the outcome of your Box of scripture you use to defend, where the words and meaning taken by them ...will not move you in that direction. I've shared what I've meant by this in one of the First post I wrote.

 

[sdowney717]

Did I ever say it was just about physical circumcision?
This is an example of knit picking...and restating I said something that is clearly shown in the latter I could not intend to mean.
How can you have read the entire post and come to that conclusion?

The scripture you quoted has nothing to do with what I was about to share...
If you've been reading through the post for understanding you would know what we all think.

Circumcision as I said at the bottom referring to it as knowledge, was used as a way to to share how through Christ's Faithfulness a man is Justified.
The outcome is that the heart is clean because we walk in the Spirit....so that the outcome is that we naturally uphold the law.
As I was saying when you truly are walking in the Spirit and not in religion the outcome not only is love but fellowship with other believers.

Religion produces self righteousness. And when people are that way they look down on others....This is not an attack on your motive but the outcome of your Box of scripture you use to defend, where the words and meaning taken by them ...will not move you in that direction. I've shared what I've meant by this in one of the First post I wrote.

'The outcome is that the heart is clean because we walk in the Spirit'
While what you seems ok on the surface it is not right.
Your putting the emphasis on our performance and that makes our heart clean.
But is God who cleans our hearts, by giving us a new spirit, so He does that, not us. We do not make for ourselves a clean heart.
HE makes us clean by His words spoken to uswards.
Jesus says this,
John 15:3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.

God's action here, before they had heard Peter preach.
Acts 10:15 And a voice spoke to him again the second time, “What God has cleansed you must not call common.”
Acts 11:9 But the voice answered me again from heaven, ‘What God has cleansed you must not call common.’

God's action, the psalmist recognizes will give him a clean heart.
Psalm 51:7 Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean; Wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.
Psalm 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God, And renew a steadfast spirit within me.

Man's actions are in vain
Psalm 73:13 Surely I have cleansed my heart in vain, And washed my hands in innocence.

 

[corinth77777]

Did I ever say it was just about physical circumcision?
This is an example of knit picking...and restating I said something that is clearly shown in the latter I could not intend to mean.
How can you have read the entire post and come to that conclusion?

The scripture you quoted has nothing to do with what I was about to share...
If you've been reading through the post for understanding you would know what we all think.

Circumcision as I said at the bottom referring to it as knowledge, was used as a way to to share how through Christ's Faithfulness a man is Justified.
The outcome is that the heart is clean because we walk in the Spirit....so that the outcome is that we naturally uphold the law.
As I was saying when you truly are walking in the Spirit and not in religion the outcome not only is love but fellowship with other believers.

Religion produces self righteousness. And when people are that way they look down on others....This is not an attack on your motive but the outcome of your Box of scripture you use to defend, where the words and meaning taken by them ...will not move you in that direction. I've shared what I've meant by this in one of the First post I wrote.

Futhermore, your box that causes religiosity has attacked us. So if you take your own words at face value....mmm??

Example a long time ago people believed the world was flat..
They started off with the Wrong premise..So their Ideals surrounding that belief lead to the wrong conclusions.
That is why I said dwelve into the meaning of the words you have accepted to be true in scripture.... First before you argue your position .....
For if the outcome of your beliefs have not truly changed you to mature in Love then you are not understanding scripture.
I was in that same boat...it took years for me to understand what folks were saying because I knew how to logically argue scripture...circulator just like you...

Take time out to understand the meaning of grace, faith, eternal life, and salvation...in the old testament and new...

Hopefully you will take this in Love..but If you don't I apologize in advance.
Peace to you!

 

[sdowney717]

God cleans us by the word, His words, not our actions.
Ephesians 5:25-27 New King James Version (NKJV)
25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, 26 that He might [a]sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, 27 that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish.

We are cleansed by the blood of Christ, not our actions.
Hebrews 9:14
how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Christ cleanses our hearts
1 John 1:7
But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

2 Peter 1:9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.

 

[corinth77777]

'The outcome is that the heart is clean because we walk in the Spirit'
While what you seems ok on the surface it is not right.
Your putting the emphasis on our performance and that makes our heart clean.
But is God who cleans our hearts, by giving us a new spirit, so He does that, not us. We do not make for ourselves a clean heart.
HE makes us clean by His words spoken to uswards.
Jesus says this,
John 15:3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.

God's action here, before they had heard Peter preach.
Acts 10:15 And a voice spoke to him again the second time, “What God has cleansed you must not call common.”
Acts 11:9 But the voice answered me again from heaven, ‘What God has cleansed you must not call common.’

God's action, the psalmist recognizes will give him a clean heart.
Psalm 51:7 Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean; Wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.
Psalm 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God, And renew a steadfast spirit within me.

Man's actions are in vain
Psalm 73:13 Surely I have cleansed my heart in vain, And washed my hands in innocence.

If you bear with me ...I will be back to explain....and If you listen ...we can unravel some words...by looking at their meaning...so you can see more clearly
And hopefully reframe the box and not limit God to it.

At least I will do my best...peace

 

[sdowney717]

People don't like the 'box' of scripture?
I am sorry but without the exposition and understanding of scripture we might as well just be a social club of diversity of opinions without any 'truth', so then just hellbound sinners.
We are to be conformed to Christ, and that includes the scriptures, Christ told us the scripture cannot be broken. And Peter tells us scripture is not a matter of a private understanding, if it is then you do not have the truth, your part of a cult group, lost and perhaps dead.
God will conform you to what He says in His word, and maybe for some that will be a painful lesson. You are not free to just do, say and be whatever you wish or believe whatever you want without consequences.

 

[zoidar]

Futhermore, your box that causes religiosity has attacked us. So if you take your own words at face value....mmm??

Example a long time ago people believed the world was flat..
They started off with the Wrong premise..So their Ideals surrounding that belief lead to the wrong conclusions.
That is why I said dwelve into the meaning of the words you have accepted to be true in scripture.... First before you argue your position .....
For if the outcome of your beliefs have not truly changed you to mature in Love then you are not understanding scripture.
I was in that same boat...it took years for me to understand what folks were saying because I knew how to logically argue scripture...circulator just like you...

Take time out to understand the meaning of grace, faith, eternal life, and salvation...in the old testament and new...

Hopefully you will take this in Love..but If you don't I apologize in advance.
Peace to you!

'The outcome is that the heart is clean because we walk in the Spirit'
While what you seems ok on the surface it is not right.
Your putting the emphasis on our performance and that makes our heart clean.
But is God who cleans our hearts, by giving us a new spirit, so He does that, not us. We do not make for ourselves a clean heart.
HE makes us clean by His words spoken to uswards.
Jesus says this,
John 15:3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.

God's action here, before they had heard Peter preach.
Acts 10:15 And a voice spoke to him again the second time, “What God has cleansed you must not call common.”
Acts 11:9 But the voice answered me again from heaven, ‘What God has cleansed you must not call common.’

God's action, the psalmist recognizes will give him a clean heart.
Psalm 51:7 Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean; Wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.
Psalm 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God, And renew a steadfast spirit within me.

Man's actions are in vain
Psalm 73:13 Surely I have cleansed my heart in vain, And washed my hands in innocence.

A good thing is to read Bible passages from a "clean slate mind", having no preconceived ideas about it and see what it's telling us. That should be the first way to read scripture. Naturally we tend to read it from our own theology. Sometimes we add things to it that isn't there. If a passage is quiet about something, we should accept it and not make theology out of it like we often tend to do.

Another thing we should do is use different translations, and also incoporate literal translations. I often use NASB, YLT, KJV and a Swedish Bible SFB, and also check with Greek on www.studylight.org or in an interlinear Bible.

 

[sdowney717]

A good thing is to read Bible passages from a "clean slate mind", having no preconceived ideas about it and see what it's telling us. That should be the first way to read scripture. Naturally we tend to read it from our own theology. Sometimes we add things to it that isn't there. If a passage is quiet about something, we should accept it and not make theology out of it like we often tend to do.

Another thing we should do is use different translations, and also incoporate literal translations. I often use NASB, YLT, KJV and a Swedish Bible SFB, and also check with Greek on www.studylight.org

I like the NKJV, ESV, KJV, and sometimes the NIV, in that order. They are all very much the same, except for some minor word differences. Some versions are way out there, distorting the meanings, and I don't even bother reading them.