Do your best to explain Romans 5

[redleghunter]

I don't know the answer to that but many Christians (and Jews) believe that it is around the age of 12. Nowhere in Scripture is an age of accountability mentioned. Here is a link to the "Grace to You" website where John MacArthur gives his answer to the question. I think he gives a thorough explanation of what he believes here: The "Age of Accountability"

I think his view is a good one (and I don't always agree with everything that John MacArthur says) but I think he gives an answer that respects the sovereignty of God while acknowledging the responsibilities of humans.

MacArthur does give a very good answer. Thanks for sharing.

 

[FineLinen]

How do you square your interpretation of the above with let's say Revelation 20?

My "revelation" at the moment will be centered in the subject at hand: equations & Romans 5! I am old and can only focus on a few things at a time. Why jump all the way to chapter 20, did you miss chapter 3?

 

[redleghunter]

I think that you have glossed over the "in our transgressions" part. Those who have no sin or are not aware of their sin are not yet spiritually dead. (See Romans 5:13-14) I think that is why Paul says that when he became aware of the law, that he died. (see Romans 7:9-12)

God waited 400 years before he judged the Amorites. We do inherit Adam's sin nature. But based on Chirst saying we have to be like children to enter the Kingdom of God. So off the theological soap box, no I don't think babies pooping in their diapers are invoking God's wrath.

That's how I see it and I agree with John MacArthur.

My Army buddy has an adult son Liam. Liam will always have the mind of a 5 year old due to autism. He's a joy most of the time but does have his moments. Liam will judged according to the Light given him. God is Great and Merciful. To those given much, much will be required. Liam will be seen in my opinion as accountable as a 5 year old with a mental disability.

 

[GingerBeer]

No, we die because sin came into the world (where there was formerly innocence) and death entered the world with it. It did not just affect humans you know--Paul notes that ALL of Creation was subject to death because of the curse God placed on it as a result of Adam and Eve's sin. No, we do NOT inherit sin--the Bible makes that clear in both the Old and New Testaments. The Bible tells us that the sons are not responsible for the father's sins nor is a father responsible for a son's sins--"that the soul who sins is the one who will die". In the New Testament, we are told in Romans 9:11 that being not yet born, before they had done anything good or bad...

And we know, from our reading of the Book of Revelation, that the condemned are condemned on the basis of their un-forgiven sin. The only foregiveness is through being washed clean through the Blood of Jesus. But babies and young children have not sinned. Therefore, they are not condemned, with or without baptism.

Have a look at my post n verses 1 to 11. I think you may have missed something. The post is at Do your best to explain Romans 5

 

[FineLinen]

Well the math in Matthew 25 and Revelation 20 is subtraction not addition.

Is that a fact? Can you disclose what the qualifications (within the context) are in Matt. 25 for #1>>>being a goat nation &>>>>#2 for being a sheep nation? Perhaps you would like to discuss the koine for aionios or aidios, or the Hebrew olam. I will say it again, I intend to stick with Romans chapter 5 for a mite. Please do not run a poor old soul around, I am running out of near death experiences.

 

[Eric Abbott]

One chapter I've been reading maybe more than any other chapter in the Bible, that is Romans 5. Since it's a description of the atonement, it's a very central chapter of the Bible. Do your best to explain the whole, or just a part of Romans 5. Let us discuss this chapter and do our best to understand it.

Christ love,

P

I can't even get half way through that chapter without almost crying with joy.. Why you want to make a grown man cry??

 

[redleghunter]

People spiritually dead doesn't mean having no consciousness. It means separation from God. Some people are "dead" while they live. 1 Timothy 5:6

Yes that verse is evidence against your position.

I was speaking of dead in spirit not unconscious.

 

[redleghunter]

They don't hear eh? "Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light." Ephesians 5 Well they're being spoken to so they hear. If they choose to come awake God will cause them to arise from the dead and THEN he'll illuminate them...Christ then will give them LIGHT.

Again thank you for proving my point. It is God Who calls and awakens.

 

[torahpointstoHim]

IMO, you cannot explain Romans 5 in context without including Romans 6.

I agree. Singling out Romans 5 will make us miss the whole context of the passage. Remember, Romans is not a book. It's supposed to be a "Letter" written to the diaspora Roman Jews/Christians. Reading these letters as "chapters" which does not exist when this document was originally written.

 

[corinth77777]

I don't want to post long chapters again so I will post links. Let me know what you think reading the following chapters :

Ephesians 2 NASB

Romans 8 NASB

1 Peter 1 NASB

I think the important chapter for your question is Ephesians 2. Romans 8 is probably best if you are an engineer. 1 Peter 1 is just plain blunt like Peter and why I like it.

I guess I'll take it as a Yes...smile
God has always created things through His word.....So I would say God quickens those things by His word...For the gospel is the power of God unto Savation for everyone that believes.
How does it say: "As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations, before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were."

 

[corinth77777]

I don't think so. Justification is based on the Righteousness of Christ.

This may be so....Just as Noah's Ark alone was salvation and the answer to God for a clear conscience. Peter 3: 21 However the Ark alone will not save any body unless they get in it. Nor will the righteousness of Christ unless we conform to the image by trusting in the resurrected power of Christ's His victory that over came the world.

 

[redleghunter]

Compared to the holiness of God and the holy angels (and those who are in heaven), you are totally depraved unless perfected in Christ. Jesus tells us you must be perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect.
God speaks after the flood and tells us man is totally depraved by this verse, about the heart of man.

Genesis 8:21 And the Lord smelled a soothing aroma. Then the Lord said in His heart, “I will never again curse the ground for man’s sake, although the imagination of man’s heart is evil from his youth; nor will I again destroy every living thing as I have done.

This total depravity does not mean you are as evil as can be. But a little leaven leavens the whole loaf.
Unless God does His work in you so that you believe in Christ, you will never believe in Him. You are His workmanship created in Christ Jesus, that means you are spiritually alive in Him and because of Him you are in Christ, and this is not of yourself. Being born of God has nothing to do with your decision, neither does it for them who are naturally born into a family on earth.

John 6
28 Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”

29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

1 Corinthians 1:24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.

1 Corinthians 1:30 But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God—and righteousness and sanctification and redemption—

The “For many are called, but few are chosen" comes to mind reading your verses on what constitutes effectual call vs. general call.

 

[redleghunter]

I guess I'll take it as a Yes...smile
God has always created things through His word.....So I would say God quickens those things by His word...For the gospel is the power of God unto Savation for everyone that believes.
How does it say: "As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations, before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were."

Good verse. He quickens makes alive and calls. He puts His Divine Logos (Word) in us so our hearts of stone are removed and gives us a heart of flesh that in this Divine calling we are exposed to our sins in godly sorrow leading to repentance and eternal life.

God Bless!

 

[redleghunter]

Infants and young children along with the mentally incompetent.

Are you arguing instead that both are unaccountable?

There is valid opinions on that. But we cannot escape that we are all sinners.

 

[redleghunter]

How many of the brethren have been offended by Calvinists? How many were murdered by John Calvin as the virtual dictator of Geneva?

They are all dead. History is full of shed blood. Why continue in that tradition.

In college debate we were always instructed we could attack an idea all day long as long as we had an argument. But never attack personally the person you are debating nor ridicule their view.

Good advice for all of us.

 

[redleghunter]

This may be so....Just as Noah's Ark alone was salvation and the answer to God for a clear conscience. Peter 3: 21 However the Ark alone will not save any body unless they get in it. Nor will the righteousness of Christ unless we conform to the image by trusting in the resurrected power of Christ's His victory that over came the world.

The ark is a good example. Noah had faith it would keep he and his family alive. He had great confidence because God sent him the designs for the ark.

 

[corinth77777]

The ark is a good example. Noah had faith it would keep he and his family alive. He had great confidence because God sent him the designs for the ark.

I doubt the the importance was on trusting the Ark....even though that is significant. Rather on trusting God For being God. For I bet I can possibly find a scripture that stated He had a relationship or that He walked with God. In this God gave Him away out. That's my thought at least. I'll be searching for a passage to see if it can be confirmed.

 

[corinth77777]

I doubt the the importance was on trusting the Ark....even though that is significant. Rather on trusting God For being God. For I bet I can possibly find a scripture that stated He had a relationship or that He walked with God. In this God gave Him away out. That's my thought at least. I'll be searching for a passage to see if it can be confirmed.

Yep, Gen 6:9
And carnelious's account

These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

 

[FineLinen]

Are you arguing instead that both are unaccountable?

There is valid opinions on that. But we cannot escape that we are all sinners.

That is precisely what I am stating! The "rule" declares they get out of jail free if they have not reached......oh away with the rule! The apostle states, through one man (Adam 1) the mass (the polus) are made sinners, through one Man (the last Adam) the same polus are "made righteous", not accounted righteous>>>>>>>"made righteous"! This is a profound equation of exquisite math!
"The whole of created life shall be delivered/ set free..."

 

[FineLinen]

Hunter: I am going to leave a little something for our consideration from A.E Saxby. The entire piece is well worth the read, but down the page GOD IN REDEMPTION are words that excel over my thoughts big time regarding this spectacular equation. Print it out, and take a few quiet moments to contemplate!

A.E. Saxby

God In Creation Redemption Judgement & Consummation

God in Creation, Redemption, Judgment and Consummation, by A. E. Saxby