Do you worry if you are saved or not?

[Thursday]

Do you worry, or are you sure you are saved?

Salvation is a process, not an event.

 

[aiki]

So all that is to say, the goats that Jesus said were going to hell because they did not do those works, are not really going to hell? And they really never had to do those works Jesus was pointing out to them?

It looks like you aren't bothering to actually understand what I'm writing. That's too bad...I can only repeat what I have already explained. The "goats" are going to hell because they didn't do good works. And they didn't do good works because they weren't actually saved. So, the ultimate reason the "goats" go to hell is their spiritually unregenerate condition, not their lack of good works. Their lack of good works is just a symptom of the deeper problem of not being born-again. This is made quite clear in many other places in Scripture (as the three passages I gave you that you have ignored demonstrate).

So what do you mean by obedience when you say "Out of that love all other obedience is to flow."

I mean obedience to the commands of God given to us in Scripture.

Of course it all come from loving of God, else we wouldn't bother, but that "obedience" you mention can be nothing more than works.

"Of course it all comes from loving God"? I don't think so. All too often I encounter believers who think that fear has an important role to play in the Christian life and who have no love at all for the God whose commands they obey.

to show you love him we must act, regardless of the reason

I'm afraid your comment here doesn't make any sense. If you are acting to show God you love Him, then the reason for doing is obviously that you do love Him.

if one does act out of fear of God, it far from means we don't love him

Oh? That's not what the apostle John wrote:

1 John 4:16-19
16 And we have known and believed the love that God has for us. God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God in him.
17 Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world.
18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love.
19 We love Him because He first loved us.

no one should be assuming we don't love God if we fear God and do as he commands

Tell that to the apostle John. And to the apostle Paul. Both of them flatly disagree with you.

There is nothing wrong with fearing God and hell fire.

"The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom." But the fear the Psalmist spoke of was a kind of deep, reverential awe, not the craven fear of one who is under threat of harm. Such craven fear is totally anathema to the love into which God invites us as His children. So, yes, there is something terribly wrong with the thinking of any believer who believes a fear of hell has anything to do with their walk with their Heavenly Father.

If we do so, we worry when we aren't doing what God says to do, and in order to stop worrying, we do what he says to do.

It is love that is to motivate our righteous living, not worry or fear. Read the first three verses of 1 Corinthians 13. Read Matthew 22:36-38. In fact, the believer is commanded in Scripture not to worry:

Philippians 4:6
6 Be anxious for nothing...

If something else comes up, say I'm committing adultery, I know it's wrong, then I darn well better worry myself sick over it until I choose to alleviate that worry by stopping, if I don't and keep doing it, it presents a serious problem to my salvation. This is not that complicated.

But what you've said here is so utterly wrong! At the heart of all our sin is a love problem: We love ourselves more than we love God. And when we do, we sin. The answer, then, to sins like adultery isn't fear but a renewal of our love for God. Love is a far more powerful motivator than fear. God knows we will walk with Him better as loving, joyful children than as fearful inmates under the threatening eye of the Warden. This is so obvious in Scripture I am astonished that so many Christians can't see it!

Matthew 22:36-38
36 "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?"
37 Jesus said to him, "'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.'
38 This is the first and great commandment.

But in the end, if you want to teach we can do those things without worry and no works are necessary so don't worry about that either,

I have never suggested that "no works are necessary." Not once. If I sin, it should be the loss of rich, deep, joyful, loving fellowship with God that compels me to confession and repentance, not fear of damnation. Apparently, you don't have such fellowship with God which is why you must rely on fear to motivate you to right living. But you disobey the very first and great commandment every moment you live without deep, rich loving fellowship with your Heavenly Father.

just have faith even though our works and keeping of his commandments show we have faith,

I have never once said, "Just have faith." What I have written about is the proper, biblical motive for living the Christian life. Do good deeds, definitely, but do them for the right reason.

Selah.

 

[aiki]

If this was your goal then why call me a demon lol, that's not a good way to end a discussion or call a truce.

I don't think you're a demon, nor did I call you one.

As I mentioned before not everyone who gets the holy ghost speaks in tounques often, and not everyone is as developed. Or in some cases like yours you just never have received the holy ghost. You're walking by truth but not by spirit yet.

Well, fortunately, your saying so doesn't make it so. Tongues is the among the least of the things God's Spirit does in every believer. Scripture tells us God's Spirit illuminates our understanding, convicts us of sin, strengthens us, comforts us, and makes us grateful, joyful, loving, patient, self-controlled and contented. He develops in each person in whom He dwells the "peaceable fruit of righteousness." Is He doing this in you? He's been doing this in me for many years.

It's not that you don't know any bible basis for what i'm talking about, it's that you find a scholar or a reason to ignore it.

Well, of course I have a reason to reject the things you're saying! They're unbiblical and false! This seems like good reason to me to reject your ideas...

come on now... this whole area is about the gift of tounques

And how it was to be properly exercised in the Early Church. These days when people start to speak in tongues I see none of the order and peace Paul insisted upon in 1 Corinthians 14. In every instance of tongues speaking that I have witnessed there is chaos and disorder that accompanies it. Hysterical laughing, uncontrollable weeping, convulsions, barking like a dog - nothing that is anything like a church acting decently and in order.

The pope, creflo Dollar, TD Jakes, and Timothy Joshua are popular too. Doesn't mean a thing.

Again, you totally missed (or ignored) my point.

Are you really that like... it seems like you know enough but you lack a critical thinking ability.

Put ye on the lord Jesus christ (spirit of christ) and make not provision for the flesh to fullfill the lust thereof.

I lack critical thinking ability? Very amusing!

The verse here that you offered does not say that the Holy Spirit replaces the sin in a person. The verse commands believers to put on Christ and make no provision for the flesh. Where's the bit about the Spirit replacing sin?

2nd/1st peter Idr : If any man has not the spirit of christ (holy ghost) he is none of his.

THis quotation is not from any of Peter's letters. It is a fractured quotation from Romans 8.

Romans 8:9
9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

Again, there is no mention of the Spirit replacing sin in the believer.

Paul the apostle wrote:

Galatians 5:17
17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.

If Paul is right (and he most certainly is), then the Spirit does not replace sin in us. Our propensity to sin present in our flesh still wars with the Spirit after we are saved. This is what Paul describes in Romans 7:

Romans 7:18-23
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find.
19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice.
20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good.
22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man.
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Romans 6:18 being then made free from sin ye became the servants of righteousness. Once you become free from sin.... then the holy ghost fills you up.

This isn't what Paul says anywhere in Romans 6. He writes only of the believer's identification with Christ in his death, burial and resurrection and that the power of sin is broken (not replaced) in the life of every born-again person. Not once does he say, "If you become free from sin the Holy Ghost will fill you."

Once you drop sin... be baptized to remove sins you're born with and all that and make room for God then you get the holy ghost.

Nope. This isn't what Scripture actually says. Who has been teaching you? They're doing a terrible job.

There's a reason the bible keeps telling us to lay aside every weight and sin that so easily besets us, to make room for the holy ghost and then an anointing.

Again, this just isn't what the passage in Hebrews 12 actually says. Not even close!

who said I didn't read it lol?

Well, if you read it you apparently didn't understand it.

King James made the KJV version but he didn't do it becuase he was a firm believer or anything.... I mean come on now.

He didn't make the KJV, he only commissioned it. And what was true of King James is not necessarily true of anyone else working on Bible translation. Surely you realize this?

Also you're bluffing when you say you know you're scriptures word by word... unless you only know like 30 or something.

I have been memorizing Scripture for over twenty years now. The last time I sat down and quoted it all from memory it took me over two hours to finish. I check and re-check that I'm memorizing accurately. Apparently, you don't. That's very unfortunate. I would remind you of King David's words:

Psalms 119:11
11 Your word I have hidden in my heart, That I might not sin against You!

Selah.

 

[Kenny'sID]

It looks like you aren't bothering to actually understand what I'm writing. That's too bad.

I understood it all.

 

[dhh712]

Do you worry, or are you sure you are saved?

My confidence is in Jesus' sacrifice on the cross. If that wasn't good enough then I'm not saved. There are many times I act out of line and fall short of being godly, but if those things will prevent me from being with God forever, then Jesus' blood sacrifice didn't cut it (which of course I don't believe to be true. His perfect work can cover all the sins of the world hundreds times over).

 

[Kenny'sID]

Christs blood cuts it just fine but trying to twist that into us not having to do what is included in "believing" in Christ, may sound pretty, but it would be one of the most dangerous things I could ever teach.

"If you love me, you will keep my commandments." If we don't do that, we have not accepted his complete offer of salvation and his blood was for naught. We can't leave out the tough stuff, and just accept the easy. It's called a straight/narrow path for good reason....remove the "doing" and there is no narrow path, making the verse void, as if we've removed it from the Bible.

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

I don't think you're a demon, nor did I call you one.



Well, fortunately, your saying so doesn't make it so. Tongues is the among the least of the things God's Spirit does in every believer. Scripture tells us God's Spirit illuminates our understanding, convicts us of sin, strengthens us, comforts us, and makes us grateful, joyful, loving, patient, self-controlled and contented. He develops in each person in whom He dwells the "peaceable fruit of righteousness." Is He doing this in you? He's been doing this in me for many years.



Well, of course I have a reason to reject the things you're saying! They're unbiblical and false! This seems like good reason to me to reject your ideas...



And how it was to be properly exercised in the Early Church. These days when people start to speak in tongues I see none of the order and peace Paul insisted upon in 1 Corinthians 14. In every instance of tongues speaking that I have witnessed there is chaos and disorder that accompanies it. Hysterical laughing, uncontrollable weeping, convulsions, barking like a dog - nothing that is anything like a church acting decently and in order.



Again, you totally missed (or ignored) my point.



I lack critical thinking ability? Very amusing!

The verse here that you offered does not say that the Holy Spirit replaces the sin in a person. The verse commands believers to put on Christ and make no provision for the flesh. Where's the bit about the Spirit replacing sin?



THis quotation is not from any of Peter's letters. It is a fractured quotation from Romans 8.

Romans 8:9
9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

Again, there is no mention of the Spirit replacing sin in the believer.

Paul the apostle wrote:

Galatians 5:17
17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.

If Paul is right (and he most certainly is), then the Spirit does not replace sin in us. Our propensity to sin present in our flesh still wars with the Spirit after we are saved. This is what Paul describes in Romans 7:

Romans 7:18-23
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find.
19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice.
20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good.
22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man.
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.



This isn't what Paul says anywhere in Romans 6. He writes only of the believer's identification with Christ in his death, burial and resurrection and that the power of sin is broken (not replaced) in the life of every born-again person. Not once does he say, "If you become free from sin the Holy Ghost will fill you."



Nope. This isn't what Scripture actually says. Who has been teaching you? They're doing a terrible job.



Again, this just isn't what the passage in Hebrews 12 actually says. Not even close!



Well, if you read it you apparently didn't understand it.



He didn't make the KJV, he only commissioned it. And what was true of King James is not necessarily true of anyone else working on Bible translation. Surely you realize this?



I have been memorizing Scripture for over twenty years now. The last time I sat down and quoted it all from memory it took me over two hours to finish. I check and re-check that I'm memorizing accurately. Apparently, you don't. That's very unfortunate. I would remind you of King David's words:

Psalms 119:11
11 Your word I have hidden in my heart, That I might not sin against You!

Selah.

I don't think you're a demon, nor did I call you one.


1st My Response:

"In any case, what you describe here sounds a lot like pagan invocation. You know, say the devil's name and you draw his attention and perhaps even his presence."

YOu can't be serious man? This is part of the reason you don't understand acts 2 either. Sure you don't straight up call me one but you describe me as being influenced or possessed by one multiple times. SUre acts 2 doesn't straight up say you should speak in tounques but that's what happened after they got the holy ghost and Peter said this is for your sons and daughters.




Well, fortunately, your saying so doesn't make it so. Tongues is the among the least of the things God's Spirit does in every believer. Scripture tells us God's Spirit illuminates our understanding, convicts us of sin, strengthens us, comforts us, and makes us grateful, joyful, loving, patient, self-controlled and contented. He develops in each person in whom He dwells the "peaceable fruit of righteousness." Is He doing this in you? He's been doing this in me for many years.


2nd My Response: You're confused here, I never said the holy ghost is speaking in tounques I simply said it was a sign when we started this discussion utilizing this verse that you claim isn't reliable. This verse clealry shows that it's a sign nothing more and that's what I have been trying to tell you the whole time. Now Paul lets us know there are gifts of tounques like interpretation and diverse but overall just a sign. ANd yeah I have all the qualities you mention tbh, I don't cus or anything. I used to but after I got the holy ghost I don't listen to the same music, I don't act the same, and I am able to love everyone. I guess I should have spoke more on that but I don't display any so called demonic signs such as anger, confusion, depression.

Mark 16:17-18King James Version (KJV)
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;



Well, of course I have a reason to reject the things you're saying! They're unbiblical and false! This seems like good reason to me to reject your ideas...

2nd My Response: I've used a scripture to support each one. And besides your using a scholar technically that's unbiblical as well. The bible also lets us know not to remove anything from the word of god, so doing that is unbiblical too. It's just hypocritical to coach me on something you do yourself.



And how it was to be properly exercised in the Early Church. These days when people start to speak in tongues I see none of the order and peace Paul insisted upon in 1 Corinthians 14. In every instance of tongues speaking that I have witnessed there is chaos and disorder that accompanies it. Hysterical laughing, uncontrollable weeping, convulsions, barking like a dog - nothing that is anything like a church acting decently and in order.


2nd My Response: Paul warned us about earthly tounques and that is what you may have witnessed. But just like with false prophets there is an opposite of that. There are true prophets, there are true christians just like there are false christians, there are true tounque speakers just like there are false ones.

I know a friend who's only been to churches that take money and another teach false things..... that doesn't mean he should assume all of them do that, although his dad assumes that. You're a victim to that and it's alright we all get hurt.
I can't really show you my church and prove that we don't laugh... bark like a dog.... etc.

You can look at the following though who resemble my church, they are apostolic churches as well and basically believe in what mine believes.

YOUR NLT, Capital Community Church, Called Chosen and Faithful. you can check out FGHT Dallas if you want also but those should be enough.




If Paul is right (and he most certainly is), then the Spirit does not replace sin in us. Our propensity to sin present in our flesh still wars with the Spirit after we are saved. This is what Paul describes in Romans 7:


My Response: I personally don't consider the flesh to be sin.... for this reason alone. JESUS who was without sin walked in the flesh and he didn't gain some added sin from being in the flesh. I know he's a God but still. The flesh is an enmity against God sure but as the rest of the verse points out it is because the flesh is not subject under the law of God neither can be.
Paul says walk in the spirit and you'll not fulfill the lust of the flesh(the flesh seeks to pursue sin but isn't sin itself it's a vessel but it termperal like the world) Sin not but if ye sin ye have an advocate with the father. Thy word I have hidden in.... you get the point. The flesh can cause us to sin but the flesh doesn't=sin itself. IF that was the case then we wouldn't be saved from anything.

As you pointed out the flesh can cause us to sin, we ourselves can cause ourselves to sin, but the flesh itself I wouldn't say=sin if you don't walk in the flesh. If you just wear it like GOD did.

Sin=typically a spirit of some kind like homosexuality or a lying spirit

Flesh= not of the spirit world at all. It's also not something you can remove like sin. You can remove lying, homosexuality, effeminate tendencies, fornication, adultery, killing, stealing, but you can't remove your flesh. They aren't the same thing.

Also JESUS says the body is a temple for the holy ghost. HE says whoever defilieth his temple he will destory.


Yet JESUS and of course Paul here encourages us to eliminate sin to destroy it. TO lay aside every sin and weight that doth so easily besets us.




I have been memorizing Scripture for over twenty years now. The last time I sat down and quoted it all from memory it took me over two hours to finish. I check and re-check that I'm memorizing accurately. Apparently, you don't.


My Response:

1. I have been saved for about 7 months or so you can't expect me to be on the at least truth knowing level as someone who's been studying it for 20 years. I haven't even been alive for 20 years so I feel it's unfair to say I don't have the word hidden in my heart just cause I don't know it on your level and just cause I miss 2 words of a verse. Also I know at least 100 or so now I'll probably be where you are in 20 years if I keep studying. TBH I also see that maybe we should end this, you've been in this walk for 20 years, you'll need at least a 10 year+ christian to get to you, hint maybe watch the preachers that i recommended.

2. I don't think you realize this but i'm 19 years old, I have college, work, I have to work out, I don't have time to recheck all the scriptures I know everyday like you do. Maybe you're retired or you just find time but I don't. What I do is if I hear a verse I know quoted and I realize I am somewhat off I review and adjust. I also have a list of at least half of them I know that I go over from time to time.


3. I was wrong for assuming you didn't know every scripture like that but most would assume the same thing. A lot don't know the word like that anymore and I at least can give you credit for knowing the word so well.



Not once does he say, "If you become free from sin the Holy Ghost will fill you."


My Response: Well that's becuase you have to believe as well. Which is why he says they that believe will be saved. I feel the problem is depending on what you believe salvation is...that changes your whole perspective on the bible. If you believe everyone is saved already then you will not take verses that say sin not the same way as someone who believes we are born in sin. If you believe in simply accepting JEsus same thing, if you believe in holy ghost same thing, if you believe in only Jehovah witnesses make it then this will also change your perspective. If you're muslim then you may doubt JESUS just as some christians doubt paul.

I hope I never get like you man, where I think I know God 100% and have seen everything there is to see, that there is nothing else to learn. Where I think I know so much that I find a way to justify removing scripture. You're a man that had/has (still time to get things right at least spiritual wise, you got the truth side down man) maybe still has so much potential to do so much for christ but now you're presenting arguments that make non believers smile. If sections of the bible are inapplicable then this helps support their arguments that the whole thing is unreliable, that maybe another scholar may find something else and another find something else. YOu don't realize it but you're helping satan man. I think the problem is I believe Paul has the holy ghost, so I can logically assume he's talking about the holy ghost with each verse that talks about receiving righteousness.

Since you don't believe this then you logically assume the opposite.


Anyway this was a good conversation, you can respond or not respond your choice but if you do i'll respond back tbh. It's whatever.

 

[Sketcher]

"Worry?" No. Do I sometimes have moments of concern? Yes, then I remember the crucifixion, death and resurrection of Jesus.

 

[sunshine456]

I believe most people at some point in their life have a concern in regards on this subject. I for one have thought about it from time to time, but the concern is not really there as I have a firm faith and belief mindset in JESUS CHRIST the son of GOD and have learned that the doubt and deception is a part of the rebuked ones schemes and diabolical plans.

Keeping and maintaining that faith and ascertaining the obstacles for some people can be difficult. I pray for those people and hope I never reach that point.

I always tell people to remember.....

1 Peter 5:8King James Version (KJV)
8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:


Praise be to GOD the heavenly father and his son lord JESUS CHRIST forever............

 

[PanDeVida]

Do you worry, or are you sure you are saved?

Yes, one should worry about their Salvation.

NOTE: Matthew 7: 22Many will say to me in that day: Lord, Lord, have not we prophesied in thy name, and cast out devils in thy name, and done many miracles in thy name? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity.

Those in Matthew 7:22 Casting out devils doing many miracles THOUGHT THEY WERE SAVED! NOT!

ST. Paul says workout your Salvation with fear and trembling.

 

[Neostarwcc]

Do I worry whether or not I'm saved? Sometimes. I think we all have doubts about our salvation from time to time. But, I have to remind myself that God cannot lie. God promised that all who believe in Jesus's name WILL have Eternal life and go to heaven and God hasn't broken a single one of his promises yet, why would he break this one? It's a done deal. Every time I say or think I'm not saved I'm essentially calling God a liar and I don't like that.

I've heard some people quote Matthew 7:21-23 as reasons that many people who think they're saved but really aren't. It's important to inspect what is being said in Matthew 7:21-23. Jesus says in Matthew 7:22 "But those who do the will of my father in Heaven." So, what is the will of the Father? Jesus answers this question in John 6:40.

"And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."
- John 6:40 KJV

So we learn that the will of the Father that Jesus is talking about is belief in Christ. These people were cast into hell for their lack of faith.

Notice, they don't say "But, Lord we believed the gospel." or "But, Lord we had faith that you would save us." or "But, Lord we have done your Father's will." no, they say "Haven't we done many miraculous works in your name?". They relied on their works to get into heaven and their works were not a sufficient reason. It doesn't matter how many miraculous works you have done in Jesus's name. Without faith your works are for naught. Faith in our Lord and Savior is what saves us not our works (Ephesians 2:8-9). So, these people were sent to hell for their lack of faith not because they were part of a particular religious group. That also would explain why Jesus said "I never knew you." Because, if they didn't have faith in Jesus how can Jesus possibly know them?

 

[BeStill&Know]

Do you worry, or are you sure you are saved?

Yes, but it's neither the Lord or my own mind.
satan is the accuser of God's children continually before God and to us.
For those like me, who have struggled without any spiritual support from family or friends their entire walk for 40 years, satan returns at every weak moment to whisper,
"if you are saved why is this happening????Hisssssssss"
Rev. 12:10
Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down”

 

[ShadowInTheLight]

I personally worry more about the non-Christian members of my family (all of my immediate members are not believers and my closest friends have walked away). I understand that I am a sinner and I have gone to the point where I can hardly ask for forgiveness of sins I tell Him I wouldn't repeat, but I do not fear Hell. (In fact, I'm more worried about just being separated from God than being punished, as funny as that sounds. I don't ever again want to live without His presence, guidance, and love.) I trust that God will make the appropriate decision and feel I am doing all I can to live for Christ. In the end, even if I end up in Hell, I am accepting of God's judgement. . .at least I feel I will be okay. I put my life and eternity in His hands and hope it's sufficient.

 

[ShadowInTheLight]

Yes, but it's neither the Lord or my own mind.
satan is the accuser of God's children continually before God and to us.
For those like me, who have struggled without any spiritual support from family or friends their entire walk for 40 years, satan returns at every weak moment to whisper,
"if you are saved why is this happening????Hisssssssss"
Rev. 12:10
Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down”

Well said!

 

[Blade]

Do you worry, or are you sure you are saved?

Ok..no never do. At 1st yes.. the enemy always comes in and trys to lie steal what God does. As for "speaking in tongues" aka would fall under gifts also. It IS a sign of the sweet sweet Holy Spirit. People run with what MAN says not the word. Satan does try to mimic the gifts of God. So where there is a false.. there is a real. Yet the REAL has to be 1st. So what one personally believes about this is not HIS word. We believe for some odd reason John 3:16, Rom 10:9-10 yet.. so much of the other things Jesus spoke that He heard from the Father not as real or the same. Like the Holy Spirit. He said.. if we ask the Father for the Holy Spirit He will give it period. We then RUN with what some MAN says God really meant and why..

So as long as one doubts.. that is all they will see from God. Case in point a town where this man Christ that had no limit to power could only lay hands a few and teach because of doubt. So if one wants to say its not proof its not a sign... praise GOD. Does not make it truth just what they pesonally believe.

I also ready about "sheep and goats". Now from what I read that is not about me or my mom or any other believer now or past. Why? Well what is written? Not calling the dead.. or those gone. What they are all SAFE? Yes. See what is written. He calls the nations before Him. Its those that were during the great tribulation. What Mosheh (Moses) Jacob Peter John all them going to be there? Or the thief on the cross? Are only the DEAD safe?

You ADD to His word when you try to say it applies to you now. When Christ returns sets foot on the earth. Now that means the GREAT AWFUL tribulation has already happen. You plan to be there do you? Made it through by not worshiping the beast then not taking the mark did you? How did you make it when you cant buy or sell anything? You think its HARD to live for Jesus now? Then great battle where 1/3 of the earth is? You have no clue what happens. Then after ALL that..then Christ comes sets foot on the earth.. He then gathers the NATIONS.. who what people? The nations at that time. Those people He splits sheep and goats.

To many just run with ..sheep and goats.. and I didnt know you. Just because you prayed for laid hands on.. healed.. does not mean you are saved kind of talk. <----that is NOT even what is written. They only took PART of what is written. God is never vague. He always says what He means. He told you.. the Nations at that time when He sets foot. Those are the people. For it/he that keeps the lawless one back..when it/he is taken out of the way (church us) then only then will the antichrist be known. For the CHURCH aka US have ALL POWER over the enemy. As long as WE are still here the enemy can not come on stage and do anything. God would HAVE to take JESUS out of us.. or give satan more power then JESUS that is IN US for all the lying wonders he will do during that 7 years. So gather nations before Him...to ADD to those is NOT what is written. Anyone that simply calls on the name of the lord shall be saved. The thief is proof. I am no one..yet I have seen wonders from my Father. This NOT to boast. It happen no because of me.. for I sin more then most.

But HE ALWAYS keeps His word. I take HIM at HIS word. Not man. Man tries to tells what GOD really meant to say. What that verse really means. GOD.. JESUS...sweet sweet Holy Spirit.. ARE REAL! You can have a real close relationship with them FAR deeper then with your kids your best friend your parents you spouse. It really comes down to.. just be like child and believe. As long as YOU your mind this world and doubt gets in.. you will see nothing. You truly get what you believe. That faith works both ways.

Sorry.. kind of went every where lol sorry. A so no.. dont worry about it

 

[devin553344]

True salvation I think is being resurrected. So I worry, but not too much.

 

[Detrimony]

Like my dad who's a deacon says.


"If you worry you're saved you're not saved."


Right after Peter got the holy ghost he went out and performed a miracle becuase he knew.




ANd if you worry that's dangerous for yourself too... don't cast out demons or anything and take time to examine yourself. If you are questioning yourself then sin has nothing to fear.

Luke 8:12New International Version - UK (NIVUK)

12 Those along the path are the ones who hear, and then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved.

 

[aiki]

YOu can't be serious man? This is part of the reason you don't understand acts 2 either. Sure you don't straight up call me one but you describe me as being influenced or possessed by one multiple times.

If you had been deceived into accepting behaviours and practices in the pursuit of your faith that were actually demonic, how would you know? How are you able to distinguish real Holy Spirit tongues speaking from someone faking it or acting under the influence of the demonic? You suggested that Jesus's name would useful but I explained to you why that wouldn't work. So how, then, can you make sure of the origin of the tongues people around you are speaking and are encouraging you to speak?

You're confused here, I never said the holy ghost is speaking in tounques

You seemed to be equating speaking in tongues with being filled by the Holy Spirit. I don't know of any place in Scripture that mandates tongues as a necessary sign of the Spirit indwelling a person. Instead, as I explained to you before, a change in character, and desire, and thinking marks a person in whom God's Spirit is living and working (Ga. 5:22, 23; Eph. 5:9; Phil. 2:13). That change is toward holiness, and righteousness, and a character marked by the fruit of the Spirit (love, joy, peace, patience, gentleness, self-control, etc.), not incoherent babbling. And which is harder to counterfeit? Incoherent babbling? Or a pure, loving, godly life? If you want to see a genuine, impossible-to-fake sign of the Holy Spirit in someone, look to see if they clearly and genuinely exhibit the fruit of the Spirit in their life.

ANd yeah I have all the qualities you mention tbh, I don't cus or anything. I used to but after I got the holy ghost I don't listen to the same music, I don't act the same, and I am able to love everyone.

Well, praise God! I'm glad to hear of this change in you!

I guess I should have spoke more on that but I don't display any so called demonic signs such as anger, confusion, depression.

These things are by no means always demonic signs. Be careful not to assign every negative thing to the demonic. That's not biblical.

Mark 16:17-18King James Version (KJV)
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

As I explained to you, this verse is part of a section of verses that are an illegitimate addition to Mark 16. It is very weak ground upon which to argue for speaking in tongues.

I've used a scripture to support each one. And besides your using a scholar technically that's unbiblical as well.

How is citing the findings of an expert in the ancient manuscripts of the Bible "technically unbiblical"? Is there some verse in Scripture that prohibits pointing out the manuscript problems with Mark 16:9-20?

The bible also lets us know not to remove anything from the word of god, so doing that is unbiblical too.

But think about what I've told you; what Dr. Metzger, a first-class Bible scholar, has said. He doesn't just say, "Hey, let's cut out this bit from Mark 16. I don't like it." No, instead he points out that in a number of the earliest surviving New Testament manuscripts containing Mark 16, the last eleven verses don't appear! These are the same manuscript sources from which your New Testament and mine are formed! And if these ancient manuscripts don't contain Mark 16:9-20, we have very good reason to think they shouldn't be in the Bible!

Paul warned us about earthly tounques and that is what you may have witnessed. But just like with false prophets there is an opposite of that. There are true prophets, there are true christians just like there are false christians, there are true tounque speakers just like there are false ones.

And how do you tell the one from the other?

I personally don't consider the flesh to be sin.... for this reason alone. JESUS who was without sin walked in the flesh and he didn't gain some added sin from being in the flesh. I know he's a God but still.

I don't think I ever said that the flesh is sin. But the Bible makes it very clear that our flesh is the source of many strong impulses that we make sinful very easily by becoming preoccupied with them and by satisfying them in an evil way.

Sin=typically a spirit of some kind like homosexuality or a lying spirit

Oh? Where in Scripture is that taught? The apostle James appears to disagree with you:

James 1:14-15
14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed.
15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.

This is what Paul says, too:

Galatians 5:17
17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.

Galatians 5:19-21
19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,
20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies,
21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Romans 7:18
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find.

The demonic realm may work to lure us into sin but they do so by pressing upon our own natural inclination toward evil, our fleshly tendency to gratify ourselves at the expense of what is right.

Flesh= not of the spirit world at all. It's also not something you can remove like sin. You can remove lying, homosexuality, effeminate tendencies, fornication, adultery, killing, stealing, but you can't remove your flesh. They aren't the same thing.

As I said, I don't think the flesh is identical to sin. They aren't one and the same thing. But they are very closely related which is why we see them so in Scripture. Fortunately, the source of Sin which is Self, called the "old man" by Paul in Romans 6, has been rendered powerless in the life of every believer by the cross of Jesus Christ. This is the way God has dealt with our fleshly inclination toward sin.

Romans 6:6-11
6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.
7 For he who has died has been freed from sin.
8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,
9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him.
10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.
11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

I have been saved for about 7 months or so you can't expect me to be on the at least truth knowing level as someone who's been studying it for 20 years.

No, I can't. But the fact that you are very new to the faith ought to be cause for circumspection and humility in the things you say about the Bible and the character of the walk with God of other believers.

I feel it's unfair to say I don't have the word hidden in my heart just cause I don't know it on your level

All right. I'm glad to know you're making the effort to memorize God's word and hide it away in your heart. Keep at it!

Also I know at least 100 or so now I'll probably be where you are in 20 years if I keep studying.

That would be great! I hope you will be. I find memorizing pretty difficult, so it may well be that you'll surpass me in time.

you've been in this walk for 20 years, you'll need at least a 10 year+ christian to get to you, hint maybe watch the preachers that i recommended.

Actually, I've been a believer for
over forty years. I just didn't start memorizing Scripture seriously until about twenty years ago. In any case, I know what and why I believe very well. At this point, there is no one who could persuade me that speaking in tongues is at all important to walking with God. God may give someone the gift of tongues in order to facilitate the preaching of the Gospel as He did in Acts 2, but looking for tongues as a sign of God's presence makes me think of Jesus's words: "An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign." (Matt. 12:39).

I don't think you realize this but i'm 19 years old, I have college, work, I have to work out, I don't have time to recheck all the scriptures I know everyday like you do.

We make time for the things we think are important and necessary. There are only two things in this world that last forever: people and God's word. If you would be wise, make your greatest investment in these things that will endure into eternity.

I hope I never get like you man, where I think I know God 100% and have seen everything there is to see, that there is nothing else to learn.

But this is not my attitude at all. There are some things about which I am very certain - and ought to be after 40 years of walking with God. Knowing some things for sure, though, doesn't mean I know everything. I learn more about my faith nearly every day!

Where I think I know so much that I find a way to justify removing scripture. You're a man that had/has (still time to get things right at least spiritual wise, you got the truth side down man) maybe still has so much potential to do so much for christ but now you're presenting arguments that make non believers smile.

This is the sort of talk that makes the devil smile. You are a very young man who has had a very short time in the Christian faith and yet you are trying to dress me down as though in seven months of walking with God you see better the scope and depth of the Christian faith than I do. Seems pretty arrogant to me...And such arrogance delights the devil.

If sections of the bible are inapplicable then this helps support their arguments that the whole thing is unreliable,

No, what it shows is that Bible scholars are being very careful, very critical, of what should and should not be in the Bible. It shows that we Christians are very serious about what we take to be the word of God.

I think the problem is I believe Paul has the holy ghost, so I can logically assume he's talking about the holy ghost with each verse that talks about receiving righteousness.

Since you don't believe this then you logically assume the opposite.

But none of this is logical. Why do you believe Paul has the Holy Spirit? Because the Bible says so. And why do you trust the Bible is telling you the truth of things? Do you have good reason for your trust of Scripture? I do.

Assumptions and logic are often very contrary to one another. In fact, the more assumptions people make, the less logical they are. I figure out what Paul means by looking at the immediate context in which he writes a given thing, and at the qualifications and clarifications of the rest of Scripture, at literary style, and grammar, and cultural context of his words, as well. This is a logical way to get at what Paul really means, not making assumptions about what he means that you impose onto his words.

The fact of the matter is that I do very definitely believe Paul was writing under the inspiration of the Spirit. That is why I am so careful about the meaning I take from his words. His words are from God and so are incredibly important! I want to be as sure as I can be that I understand them correctly. How about you?

Selah.

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

If you had been deceived into accepting behaviours and practices in the pursuit of your faith that were actually demonic, how would you know? How are you able to distinguish real Holy Spirit tongues speaking from someone faking it or acting under the influence of the demonic? You suggested that Jesus's name would useful but I explained to you why that wouldn't work. So how, then, can you make sure of the origin of the tongues people around you are speaking and are encouraging you to speak?



You seemed to be equating speaking in tongues with being filled by the Holy Spirit. I don't know of any place in Scripture that mandates tongues as a necessary sign of the Spirit indwelling a person. Instead, as I explained to you before, a change in character, and desire, and thinking marks a person in whom God's Spirit is living and working (Ga. 5:22, 23; Eph. 5:9; Phil. 2:13). That change is toward holiness, and righteousness, and a character marked by the fruit of the Spirit (love, joy, peace, patience, gentleness, self-control, etc.), not incoherent babbling. And which is harder to counterfeit? Incoherent babbling? Or a pure, loving, godly life? If you want to see a genuine, impossible-to-fake sign of the Holy Spirit in someone, look to see if they clearly and genuinely exhibit the fruit of the Spirit in their life.



Well, praise God! I'm glad to hear of this change in you!



These things are by no means always demonic signs. Be careful not to assign every negative thing to the demonic. That's not biblical.



As I explained to you, this verse is part of a section of verses that are an illegitimate addition to Mark 16. It is very weak ground upon which to argue for speaking in tongues.



How is citing the findings of an expert in the ancient manuscripts of the Bible "technically unbiblical"? Is there some verse in Scripture that prohibits pointing out the manuscript problems with Mark 16:9-20?



But think about what I've told you; what Dr. Metzger, a first-class Bible scholar, has said. He doesn't just say, "Hey, let's cut out this bit from Mark 16. I don't like it." No, instead he points out that in a number of the earliest surviving New Testament manuscripts containing Mark 16, the last eleven verses don't appear! These are the same manuscript sources from which your New Testament and mine are formed! And if these ancient manuscripts don't contain Mark 16:9-20, we have very good reason to think they shouldn't be in the Bible!



And how do you tell the one from the other?



I don't think I ever said that the flesh is sin. But the Bible makes it very clear that our flesh is the source of many strong impulses that we make sinful very easily by becoming preoccupied with them and by satisfying them in an evil way.



Oh? Where in Scripture is that taught? The apostle James appears to disagree with you:

James 1:14-15
14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed.
15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.

This is what Paul says, too:

Galatians 5:17
17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.

Galatians 5:19-21
19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,
20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies,
21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Romans 7:18
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find.

The demonic realm may work to lure us into sin but they do so by pressing upon our own natural inclination toward evil, our fleshly tendency to gratify ourselves at the expense of what is right.



As I said, I don't think the flesh is identical to sin. They aren't one and the same thing. But they are very closely related which is why we see them so in Scripture. Fortunately, the source of Sin which is Self, called the "old man" by Paul in Romans 6, has been rendered powerless in the life of every believer by the cross of Jesus Christ. This is the way God has dealt with our fleshly inclination toward sin.

Romans 6:6-11
6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.
7 For he who has died has been freed from sin.
8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,
9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him.
10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.
11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.



No, I can't. But the fact that you are very new to the faith ought to be cause for circumspection and humility in the things you say about the Bible and the character of the walk with God of other believers.



All right. I'm glad to know you're making the effort to memorize God's word and hide it away in your heart. Keep at it!



That would be great! I hope you will be. I find memorizing pretty difficult, so it may well be that you'll surpass me in time.



Actually, I've been a believer for
over forty years. I just didn't start memorizing Scripture seriously until about twenty years ago. In any case, I know what and why I believe very well. At this point, there is no one who could persuade me that speaking in tongues is at all important to walking with God. God may give someone the gift of tongues in order to facilitate the preaching of the Gospel as He did in Acts 2, but looking for tongues as a sign of God's presence makes me think of Jesus's words: "An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign." (Matt. 12:39).



We make time for the things we think are important and necessary. There are only two things in this world that last forever: people and God's word. If you would be wise, make your greatest investment in these things that will endure into eternity.



But this is not my attitude at all. There are some things about which I am very certain - and ought to be after 40 years of walking with God. Knowing some things for sure, though, doesn't mean I know everything. I learn more about my faith nearly every day!



This is the sort of talk that makes the devil smile. You are a very young man who has had a very short time in the Christian faith and yet you are trying to dress me down as though in seven months of walking with God you see better the scope and depth of the Christian faith than I do. Seems pretty arrogant to me...And such arrogance delights the devil.



No, what it shows is that Bible scholars are being very careful, very critical, of what should and should not be in the Bible. It shows that we Christians are very serious about what we take to be the word of God.



But none of this logical. Why do you believe Paul has the Holy Spirit? Because the Bible says so. And why do you trust the Bible is telling you the truth of things? Do you have good reason for your trust of Scripture? I do.

Assumptions and logic are often very contrary to one another. In fact, the more assumptions people make, the less logical they are. I figure out what Paul means by looking at the immediate context in which he writes a given thing, and at the qualifications and clarifications of the rest of Scripture, at literary style, and grammar, and cultural context of his words, as well. This is a logical way to get at what Paul really means, not making assumptions about what he means that you impose onto his words.

The fact of the matter is that I do very definitely believe Paul was writing under the inspiration of the Spirit. That is why I am so careful about the meaning I take from his words. His words are from God and so are incredibly important! I want to be as sure as I can be that I understand them correctly. How about you?

Selah.

Oh you replied lol, I thought we were done.


If you had been deceived into accepting behaviours and practices in the pursuit of your faith that were actually demonic, how would you know? How are you able to distinguish real Holy Spirit tongues speaking from someone faking it or acting under the influence of the demonic? You suggested that Jesus's name would useful but I explained to you why that wouldn't work. So how, then, can you make sure of the origin of the tongues people around you are speaking and are encouraging you to speak?


My Response: When I read this I could practically picture an atheist saying what you said in the first sentence. They ask the same thing "how can you tell the bible is the main book of salvation vs the quran?" "How can you tell your God is any more real then Allah or Zeus or anyone else." "how can you tell your church is a true christian church and your denomination is any better then any other out there?"

What you don't understand is christianity is the most replicated thing in the world, there is a false form of every part or thing that has to do with this religion. How I tell ultimately is through discernment though, being led by the spirit. The last question you ask is actually good though and I suggest you figure it out for yourself or you could fall victim to demonic possession. We had a lady that was possessed SUnday and we had to ge thte demon out of her, my Pastor was led by the spirit and noticed this in her. She was up on the alter and stuff but he was able to through the spirit detect demonic activity and he was right, she fell down and started acting strange and everything after he called the demons out. I say demons because there was more then one in her. SHe was tormented becuase of abuse she had from her mother.

And again I'm not saying JESUS name= only saved people can use it. I'm just saying that JESUS name doesn't spur or attract demonic activity it repulses it. To suggest JESUS name can spur demonic activity is scary tbh and I suggest you change your mind on that.

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

If you had been deceived into accepting behaviours and practices in the pursuit of your faith that were actually demonic, how would you know? How are you able to distinguish real Holy Spirit tongues speaking from someone faking it or acting under the influence of the demonic? You suggested that Jesus's name would useful but I explained to you why that wouldn't work. So how, then, can you make sure of the origin of the tongues people around you are speaking and are encouraging you to speak?



You seemed to be equating speaking in tongues with being filled by the Holy Spirit. I don't know of any place in Scripture that mandates tongues as a necessary sign of the Spirit indwelling a person. Instead, as I explained to you before, a change in character, and desire, and thinking marks a person in whom God's Spirit is living and working (Ga. 5:22, 23; Eph. 5:9; Phil. 2:13). That change is toward holiness, and righteousness, and a character marked by the fruit of the Spirit (love, joy, peace, patience, gentleness, self-control, etc.), not incoherent babbling. And which is harder to counterfeit? Incoherent babbling? Or a pure, loving, godly life? If you want to see a genuine, impossible-to-fake sign of the Holy Spirit in someone, look to see if they clearly and genuinely exhibit the fruit of the Spirit in their life.



Well, praise God! I'm glad to hear of this change in you!



These things are by no means always demonic signs. Be careful not to assign every negative thing to the demonic. That's not biblical.



As I explained to you, this verse is part of a section of verses that are an illegitimate addition to Mark 16. It is very weak ground upon which to argue for speaking in tongues.



How is citing the findings of an expert in the ancient manuscripts of the Bible "technically unbiblical"? Is there some verse in Scripture that prohibits pointing out the manuscript problems with Mark 16:9-20?



But think about what I've told you; what Dr. Metzger, a first-class Bible scholar, has said. He doesn't just say, "Hey, let's cut out this bit from Mark 16. I don't like it." No, instead he points out that in a number of the earliest surviving New Testament manuscripts containing Mark 16, the last eleven verses don't appear! These are the same manuscript sources from which your New Testament and mine are formed! And if these ancient manuscripts don't contain Mark 16:9-20, we have very good reason to think they shouldn't be in the Bible!



And how do you tell the one from the other?



I don't think I ever said that the flesh is sin. But the Bible makes it very clear that our flesh is the source of many strong impulses that we make sinful very easily by becoming preoccupied with them and by satisfying them in an evil way.



Oh? Where in Scripture is that taught? The apostle James appears to disagree with you:

James 1:14-15
14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed.
15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.

This is what Paul says, too:

Galatians 5:17
17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.

Galatians 5:19-21
19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,
20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies,
21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Romans 7:18
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find.

The demonic realm may work to lure us into sin but they do so by pressing upon our own natural inclination toward evil, our fleshly tendency to gratify ourselves at the expense of what is right.



As I said, I don't think the flesh is identical to sin. They aren't one and the same thing. But they are very closely related which is why we see them so in Scripture. Fortunately, the source of Sin which is Self, called the "old man" by Paul in Romans 6, has been rendered powerless in the life of every believer by the cross of Jesus Christ. This is the way God has dealt with our fleshly inclination toward sin.

Romans 6:6-11
6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.
7 For he who has died has been freed from sin.
8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,
9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him.
10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.
11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.



No, I can't. But the fact that you are very new to the faith ought to be cause for circumspection and humility in the things you say about the Bible and the character of the walk with God of other believers.



All right. I'm glad to know you're making the effort to memorize God's word and hide it away in your heart. Keep at it!



That would be great! I hope you will be. I find memorizing pretty difficult, so it may well be that you'll surpass me in time.



Actually, I've been a believer for
over forty years. I just didn't start memorizing Scripture seriously until about twenty years ago. In any case, I know what and why I believe very well. At this point, there is no one who could persuade me that speaking in tongues is at all important to walking with God. God may give someone the gift of tongues in order to facilitate the preaching of the Gospel as He did in Acts 2, but looking for tongues as a sign of God's presence makes me think of Jesus's words: "An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign." (Matt. 12:39).



We make time for the things we think are important and necessary. There are only two things in this world that last forever: people and God's word. If you would be wise, make your greatest investment in these things that will endure into eternity.



But this is not my attitude at all. There are some things about which I am very certain - and ought to be after 40 years of walking with God. Knowing some things for sure, though, doesn't mean I know everything. I learn more about my faith nearly every day!



This is the sort of talk that makes the devil smile. You are a very young man who has had a very short time in the Christian faith and yet you are trying to dress me down as though in seven months of walking with God you see better the scope and depth of the Christian faith than I do. Seems pretty arrogant to me...And such arrogance delights the devil.



No, what it shows is that Bible scholars are being very careful, very critical, of what should and should not be in the Bible. It shows that we Christians are very serious about what we take to be the word of God.



But none of this is logical. Why do you believe Paul has the Holy Spirit? Because the Bible says so. And why do you trust the Bible is telling you the truth of things? Do you have good reason for your trust of Scripture? I do.

Assumptions and logic are often very contrary to one another. In fact, the more assumptions people make, the less logical they are. I figure out what Paul means by looking at the immediate context in which he writes a given thing, and at the qualifications and clarifications of the rest of Scripture, at literary style, and grammar, and cultural context of his words, as well. This is a logical way to get at what Paul really means, not making assumptions about what he means that you impose onto his words.

The fact of the matter is that I do very definitely believe Paul was writing under the inspiration of the Spirit. That is why I am so careful about the meaning I take from his words. His words are from God and so are incredibly important! I want to be as sure as I can be that I understand them correctly. How about you?

Selah.

You seemed to be equating speaking in tongues with being filled by the Holy Spirit. I don't know of any place in Scripture that mandates tongues as a necessary sign of the Spirit indwelling a person. And which is harder to counterfeit? Incoherent babbling? Or a pure, loving, godly life?


My Response: Oh no buddy I"m simply saying it's a sign.


In acts 2 they spoke


Also in acts 10 when Paul laid hands they spoke also in tounques. It just happens.

And sure like i mentioned a while back with you the bible isn't like a powerpoint where it says straight up do this in that but rather it gives us examples lots of times and stories and experiences. Also both are just as easy to counterfeit tbh since there are many false christians today that people use easily as examples. And you sound a lot like an atheist here again tbh, "which thing is more easy to prove with facts?" I'm not pointing out this atheist stuff again and again to be egotistical or anything, i'm just trying to help you realize you need help.







I don't think I ever said that the flesh is sin. But the Bible makes it very clear that our flesh is the source of many strong impulses that we make sinful very easily by becoming preoccupied with them and by satisfying them in an evil way.

My Response: YOu did say that actually, or you worded what you were trying to say poorly. ALso then why respond to me then if I said the exact same thing you said in this sentence lol. I stated that the flesh if we submit to it causes sin and you claimed that was wrong. WHen you are saying the exact thing I said now.


These things are by no means always demonic signs. Be careful not to assign every negative thing to the demonic. That's not biblical.

My Response: I never said every negative thing is demonic. I simply said demonic tends to be negative. Sure we ourselves by submitting to the flesh can do bad things as well.




No, I can't. But the fact that you are very new to the faith ought to be cause for circumspection and humility in the things you say about the Bible and the character of the walk with God of other believers.

My Response: I'm humble just confident in the GOd that resides in me.




How is citing the findings of an expert in the ancient manuscripts of the Bible "technically unbiblical"?


My Response: IF that expert is removing something from the bible then logically it is.



As I explained to you, this verse is part of a section of verses that are an illegitimate addition to Mark 16. It is very weak ground upon which to argue for speaking in tongues.

My Response: NOt really if you read it it's a nice strong firm piece of scripture tbh. But this wasn't a base scripture for my argument I most utilized acts, this was simply a side scripture that you chose to hone your focus on.



Actually, I've been a believer for
over forty years. I just didn't start memorizing Scripture seriously until about twenty years ago. In any case, I know what and why I believe very well. At this point, there is no one who could persuade me that speaking in tongues is at all important to walking with God. God may give someone the gift of tongues in order to facilitate the preaching of the Gospel as He did in Acts 2, but looking for tongues as a sign of God's presence makes me think of Jesus's words: "An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign." (Matt. 12:39).


My Response: bro man you take this verse way out of context. And the way you utilize it is a problem becuase of another verse i'm going to mention later.

That verse is referring to the people who simply saw JESUS as a meal ticket (i'm referring to the multitude) rather then the mighty God who can offer salvation.

And besides that would only contradict this if what you said was true.

Acts 5:12-16King James Version (KJV)
12 And by the hands of the apostles were many signs and wonders wrought among the people; (and they were all with one accord in Solomon's porch.

13 And of the rest durst no man join himself to them: but the people magnified them.

14 And believers were the more added to the Lord, multitudes both of men and women.)


Why do you believe Paul has the Holy Spirit? Because the Bible says so. And why do you trust the Bible is telling you the truth of things? Do you have good reason for your trust of Scripture? I do.

My Response: then why remove it... wth? And I do though to answer your question. THe bible is the mind of God, it's the thoughts of the thinker. It's instructions before we leave Earth.



This is the sort of talk that makes the devil smile. You are a very young man who has had a very short time in the Christian faith and yet you are trying to dress me down as though in seven months of walking with God you see better the scope and depth of the Christian faith than I do. Seems pretty arrogant to me...And such arrogance delights the devil.


My Response: No my friend the devil has you. You believe becuase you have walked in truth for 40 years you've been with God but you haven't.

You're like the pharisees or hte priest of old, you walked in truth for decades but you are missing something. You've haven't walked in spirit and truth, you haven't received the holy ghost. Maybe GOd send me to inform you idk, sure when it comes to pure knowing the bible maybe you're more advanced as an elder man, but when it comes to having a relationship with God... i'm closer then you and I can help you be close spirit wise if you just listen. Anyone can walk in truth for a logn time, but walking in spirit is another thing. Performing miracles and under the anointing of God is another, having the spirit of God is another thing altogether and you can still get him man. It's not too late.

knowledge=power but it doesn't equal salvation. It's a vital step to know the word, but it's the other half is to know and have a relationship with God.