Do you wear a Scapular?

[geocajun]

I tend to side with Marcia on this a bit... I have a hard time swallowing that these articles of jewelry (or what not) will save us from some suffering in purgatory (indulgences). It's like... I read somewhere that you receive some kind of indulgence by praying with a blessed rosary as opposed to praying with a non-blessed rosary. Shouldn't the point be that we are praying and not the article that we are using?

Shakkai,
The same applies with relics, that it isn't the object itself which has power or magic, etc... but rather the internal disposition of the person using it, seeking some sort of promise, or grace through it.
God works through the natural all the time, from Peters shadow healing people (acts 5:15) to the bones of Elisha bringing the dead back to life (2 Kings 13:21) to the women touches Jesus' clothing and being healed (Matt 9:21).
In each of these cases, it was not the object that conferred grace on its own, but rather it was God responding to them through the object. They knocked, and the door was opened; but the point is that the door was opened in a visible way, through an object.
In the case of a scapular, Mary made a promise to those who wear it, that she would lead them out of purgatory on the first Saturday after their death, and those who wear it aren't doing it because they think the scapular has power in and of itself, but rather that Mary, the Mother of God will help those who show obedience by wearing it.
We do receive graces by our prayers, but we can increase the graces by our praying with sacramentals (i.e. blessed rosary, etc...).
Remember also that all of the Sacraments are examples of God working through the natural to confer grace.

 

[AMDG]

IMO, it's an outward sign of an inward disposition. I wear a scapular medal and miraculous medal (and yes, I do "jingle" when I walk). Throughout my day, the medal hits me square on the chest, and it reminds me to say a little prayer and turn my mind to God. (Not that I wouldn't do that normally, but I bet I do it more often because of the constant "reminder".) And because it is unusual, people ask me about it (and children even become mesmerized by it). I have a perfect opportunity to gently explain. In effect, I am gently "preaching the Gospel at all times" and I don't even have to say a word, but when asked... Without my wearing, that wouldn't be possible.
(It's about the same thing, I hear, with the cloth version. It scratches--say a prayer--what's that?--gently explain.) If Mary leads ANYONE out of Purgatory early, it's only because our minds are constantly on Jesus. The Scapular (as ANY Sacramental does IMO) only assists that. It acts as a "reminder".

As far as indulgences. Perfectly understandable as far as I'm concerned. They represent the prayers of the Church--and Jesus gave His Church authority.

 

[DivineFiliation]

In the case of a scapular, Mary made a promise to those who wear it, that she would lead them out of purgatory on the first Saturday after their death, and those who wear it aren't doing it because they think the scapular has power in and of itself, but rather that Mary, the Mother of God will help those who show obedience by wearing it.
We do receive graces by our prayers, but we can increase the graces by our praying with sacramentals (i.e. blessed rosary, etc...).
Remember also that all of the Sacraments are examples of God working through the natural to confer grace.

This leads me to another question...
are the only people in heaven the saints? What I am getting at is has anybody kept track of who was wearing the scapular?

I ask this because it seems to me the Catholic teaching is that only saints are currently in heaven and everyone else is in purgatory. Am I stating this incorrectly? Because if I am incorrect then there is no issue.

 

[Epiphanygirl]

IMO, it's an outward sign of an inward disposition. I wear a scapular medal and miraculous medal (and yes, I do "jingle" when I walk). Throughout my day, the medal hits me square on the chest, and it reminds me to say a little prayer and turn my mind to God. (Not that I wouldn't do that normally, but I bet I do it more often because of the constant "reminder".) And because it is unusual, people ask me about it (and children even become mesmerized by it). I have a perfect opportunity to gently explain. In effect, I am gently "preaching the Gospel at all times" and I don't even have to say a word, but when asked... Without my wearing, that wouldn't be possible.
(It's about the same thing, I hear, with the cloth version. It scratches--say a prayer--what's that?--gently explain.) If Mary leads ANYONE out of Purgatory early, it's only because our minds are constantly on Jesus. The Scapular (as ANY Sacramental does IMO) only assists that. It acts as a "reminder".

As far as indulgences. Perfectly understandable as far as I'm concerned. They represent the prayers of the Church--and Jesus gave His Church authority.

You can hear me coming a mile away too
It opens up doors for sharing the faith, just as you said, it's a beautiful thing!

 

[geocajun]

This leads me to another question...
are the only people in heaven the saints? What I am getting at is has anybody kept track of who was wearing the scapular?

I ask this because it seems to me the Catholic teaching is that only saints are currently in heaven and everyone else is in purgatory. Am I stating this incorrectly? Because if I am incorrect then there is no issue.

Shakkai, I don't understand the link to your question and the scapular, but fwiw, all those in the Church (militant, suffering, and triumphant) are saints, however those canonized are "Saints" and models for us to live our lives like.

 

[Miss Shelby]

The brown scapular that I received as a gift has an insert that clearly states wearing it in and of itself will not save a person if they are in mortal sin or flippant about it.

It's a promise that those who wear it and live life the way we are supposed to will have a special grace when they die. And if I am wrong, Jason can correct me.

Michelle

 

[chrislife]

I have one...but I am not invested nor do I feel worthy enough to be.

Oh, worthiness isn't required. If it were, I think very few of us would be invested. The brown scapular is intended to be a help, not a mark of distinction.

 

[chrislife]

The best site I've found for answering questions about the brown scapular is here: http://carmelnet.org/scapular/scapular.htm (I'm really hoping I'm able to post urls, because I can't remember what the requirements for that were.) As for how to be invested, any priest can do it; and if he does not know how, there is a formula available online. You could print it out if you wanted.

 

[marciadietrich]

Marcia, fwiw, I don't think there is a person alive who thinks they will be saved by the scapular - but rather they believe Mary will lead them out of purgatory earlier for having worn it when they die. If you are in purgatory, you are saved.

Hi Jason

Doesn't this scapular say on the back:

"Whoever dies wearing this scapular shall not suffer eternal fire."

I have read about people not wanting to take it off even in the shower, that there was a plastic covering that would help protect it. And probably a Bud McFarlane novel using it at some point as the guy took it off and then was struck by a denomic attack. (Fiction I know, but I think Bud's fiction heavily added from his personal mindset and that of people he associates with.)

Those are the things that have struck me wrong about this item in particular. Plus, I tend to not hold to the private revelation as being factual. Some of the devotions seem helpful, but I tend to not believe that Mary is making personal appearances and some apparitions sound like it it the person reporting the apparitions ideas and concerns and predictions about the world.

I don't have any problem with sacramentals or items being blessed. But the back of the brown scapular, at face value, seems to be making it a get out of jail free card. I don't expect the people on this forum have a problem misunderstanding, but I would expect there well could be some who take that promise in a literal way.

Marcia

 

[Miss Shelby]

I don't have any problem with sacramentals or items being blessed. But the back of the brown scapular, at face value, seems to be making it a get out of jail free card. I don't expect the people on this forum have a problem misunderstanding, but I would expect there well could be some who take that promise in a literal way.

But it clearly states when it comes with the explanation that it doesn't save anyone in mortal sin or who are otherwise relying on the scapular to save them. I do agree, if it's passed on by word of mouth, there could be a misunderstanding. But no more of a misunderstanding than some uninformed Catholics believing that Baptism could save them if they're in mortal sin... they have to be educated. And no Catholic I know would ever believe that an inatimate object could save them.

Perhaps more education is the key.

But as a devotional practice for the faithful who understand it, ( and I mean a Church approved devotional)--I see no problem.

Michelle

 

[geocajun]

But it clearly states when it comes with the explanation that it doesn't save anyone in mortal sin or who are otherwise relying on the scapular to save them. I do agree, if it's passed on by word of mouth, there could be a misunderstanding. But no more of a misunderstanding than some uninformed Catholics believing that Baptism could save them if they're in mortal sin... they have to be educated. And no Catholic I know would ever believe that an inatimate object could save them.

Perhaps more education is the key.

But as a devotional practice for the faithful who understand it, ( and I mean a Church approved devotional)--I see no problem.

Michelle

well said Michelle

 

[marciadietrich]

But it clearly states when it comes with the explanation that it doesn't save anyone in mortal sin or who are otherwise relying on the scapular to save them. I do agree, if it's passed on by word of mouth, there could be a misunderstanding.

Hi Michelle,

Essentially the scapular can't promise anything we can't access with simple prayer and practice of our faith. It seems misleading to me to have the statement in that form on the article itself (I have seen them in a bin at an outlet store), and even if I chose to do the devotion (which the prayer and reminder to prayer is a good thing) I don't think I could bring myself to wear it because of that. Maybe the protestant in me hanging on. I'm not a jewelry person either ... right now a watch to know what time it is all I've got on.

But no more of a misunderstanding than some uninformed Catholics believing that Baptism could save them if they're in mortal sin...

But baptism does forgives all sins, even mortal sins, given sincerity in faith and the baptism was valid for the adult convert. That is why those baptized at the Easter Vigil don't have to go to confession before first communion. Most Catholics having been baptized as infants really couldn't count on that to save them! lol Constantine the Great apparently did count on that, pressing baptism to the end of his life. I'm not sure if that is regarded as his trying to misuse the sacrament or a great show of faith in it.

they have to be educated. And no Catholic I know would ever believe that an inatimate object could save them.

I agree on the education. And hope that is the case that people don't misunderstand the intent of the sacramental. As I recall the Catechism says that we shouldn't neglect our education of the deposit of faith (public revelation of Scripture and Tradition) in favor of private revelation. So I'm not sure these sort of devotions should be taken up except by those who are already well-educated in the basics of our faith.

Maybe others have found it to be the opposite, that the devotion leads to the shoring up of the basics of faith. If so, then it is good. Just this is certainly an item that sent a red flag up for me when I was in the process of converting.

God bless.

marcia

 

[AMDG]

The scapular is just a reminder to constantly turn our heart and minds to God (and acts like a pretty powerful one). In that respect I guess you COULD say that the statement on the article is true (of course it's because of the action it has on YOU--not the article itself.)

You ought to try it. Keep a notebook of how many times you do "turn your mind to God" or as the Scripture exhorts "pray always" while NOT wearing the Scapular. Then wear a Scapular (and EVERYTIME it itches you, you need to adjust it for comfort, if wearing the medal, it "clangs" against your chest, or it "jingles", or someone asks you "what is that thing?", or your hand goes up to it in ANY way--you say a short prayer to God) and keep a record of that too. I bet you'll see the difference. I bet you'll find that you'll be "praying darn near all the time". And I bet that THAT'S the reason behind the devotion.

BTW you DO know that the Scapular is a small reminder of the Brown Habit of the Carmelites?

 

[marciadietrich]

Are there brown scapulars that are plain and don't have that statement printed on it?

 

[marciadietrich]

Found a plain brown scapular:

http://www.twoheartsrosaries.com/scapulars/scpad.htm

 

[AMDG]

I'm glad you found it, but somehow it saddens me that simply some words printed on an object of devotion might prevent someone from ever discovering the spiritual benefits of the said devotion.

 

[ZooMom]

I bought a brown scapular today. I am going to call the parish office tomorrow about enrolling.

 

[plainswolf]

As I had said earlier, I can't remember ever being officially enrolled in the scapular, however I have always worn one with a miraculous medal on it since 1993. Today, after Mass and Benediction, I finally had the elderly fransican priest of the fssp bless it and enroll me into it.

I told him I was almost sure I was never enrolled into it but had always worn it and he replied with a smile, "oohh, it appears Our Lady caught ya". It does feel wonderful to feel sure now that i have been enrolled.. ~smiling~

J.M.J.
Mark

 

[AMDG]