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Do you think you deserve eternal torment in hell?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by cuja1, Sep 29, 2014.

  1. cuja1

    cuja1 Newbie

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    I don't know if this is the right place for this question but I am curious.

    It seems to me that many Christians think that eternal torment in hell is just. Not only that, but they themselves believe that they themselves deserve eternal torment in hell. Or could they just be saying that since now they perceive that they are saved from it.

    If you do please explain as well as possible why you believe you deserve it.
     
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  2. OldShepherd

    OldShepherd Zaqunraah

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    Deleted.
     
  3. cuja1

    cuja1 Newbie

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    Is there a better place to ask this or is the question itself unacceptable?
     
  4. Hillsage

    Hillsage One for Him and Him for all Supporter

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    Yes this is the forum where such discussion is allowed.

    No, I do not believe that I, or anyone else, deserves "eternal torment" which equates to nothing less than eternal torture without purpose. If torture had any purpose it would certainly not be eternal. That simply makes Him, not the God of love, but the king of sadism. I like think 'more' of my God than that.
     
  5. cuja1

    cuja1 Newbie

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    Our preacher talked solely about hell on Sunday, and in the end said that we all deserve hell. I am really interested in why people think they deserve hell. If I deserve hell, it would really be nice to understand why. Apparently there are those that believe that they themselves deserve it.
     
  6. SarahsKnight

    SarahsKnight Jesus Christ is this Knight's truth.

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    Wooh, always a sensitive subject.


    Well, no, I do not believe I or anyone is actually so terrible and evil a person that they deserve eternal torment. When people say something like that it just feels like it's become a mantra that is carelessly said without any reflection on what that person is actually saying about himself or other people.

    But do I believe I am below God and fall greatly short of His holiness? You bet. I dare not say otherwise. I believe He is more "good" than Christians who believe in the mainstream doctrine/idea of eternal torment unknowingly give Him credit for (and I mean unknowingly as in, I think THEY themselves believe they are genuinely and sincerely calling Him good, but from my perspective eternal torment for example actually seems like an insult to His goodness and justice, but I like to think that the eternal torment proponents aren't deliberately trying to smear His character, as we've all heard that eternal torment is good coming from God because He decides what is justice). And He does get to decide. It's just I don't think it's eternal torment. It actually seems to suggest quite the opposite in the Bible to me, and I have no problem saying that ECT is also against my personal conscience.

    So do I believe I deserve death? As in literal death? Yes. The Bible seems to say it, and I know I've done some awful things in my life. I personally don't believe in the Total Depravity doctrine of say, the Calvinist perspective, at least not in the sense I think that they mean it. I believe I've done some good along with evil, but I recognize that, even if the good outweighs the evil in my life (and I'm not saying that I think it does; I couldn't begin to measure, nor do I think it is my place to), the evil I have said and done falls greatly short of God's perfect standard, therefore without my evil forgiven by the Cross I must die, as no one with a shred of unholiness still clinging to them can exist in His presence, which is not just 20, 50, or even 99.9% holy, but perfectly holy. And it is my impression that in the new creation, the new heavens and earth to come, He will be everywhere and with the intention that it be perfect with no blemish whatsoever from sin and evil, therefore those unsaved will not be able to actually exist anywhere.


    I guess my bottom line is, I don't see how - if this is the gist some ECT Christians put forth - I need to believe I deserve a living fate worse than death in order to properly revere, love, and honor God. But it feels like, at least in the more fire and brimstoney sermons, I am expected to lest that somehow mean I think I am above God and know better than Him. No. Those two things are miles apart from each other.
     
  7. 1213

    1213 Disciple of Jesus

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    To me, hell is opposite for eternal life with God. I think I don’t deserve eternal life, so by my own merits I would have to settle for hell. I have done nothing to deserve eternal life. So, if God thinks I am not righteous enough, he doesn’t give me the gift that is the eternal life.

    These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
    Mat. 25:46

    For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
    Romans 6:23

    For I tell you that unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, there is no way you will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.
    Mat. 5:20
     
  8. cuja1

    cuja1 Newbie

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    "To me, hell is opposite for eternal life with God. I think I don’t deserve eternal life, so by my own merits I would have to settle for hell. I have done nothing to deserve eternal life. So, if God thinks I am not righteous enough, he doesn’t give me the gift that is the eternal life.

    These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
    Mat. 25:46

    For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
    Romans 6:23

    For I tell you that unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, there is no way you will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.
    Mat. 5:20"

    Do you mean annihilation or eternal suffering?
     
  9. Hammster

    Hammster Every knee shall bow. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    I'm a sinner. Sinners deserve hell.
     
  10. ChetSinger

    ChetSinger Well-Known Member

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    Hello! Sorry to be nit-picky, but if our names aren't written in the book of life I believe it is the lake of fire, not hell, that will be our final destination. Hell is a temporary holding cell.

    Regarding your question, as I read it we'll all get what we deserve, and then even more, whether for good or for bad:

     
  11. cuja1

    cuja1 Newbie

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    Do you care to explain why you feel that way?
     
  12. cuja1

    cuja1 Newbie

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    I know that if I commit murder, I deserve to go to prison or die, I know that if I steal I deserve to go to jail. But I can't come up with a reason why anyone could deserve eternal suffering.

    Not that it matters really. If God says it's so, it's so. But one would think that one could understand such a weighty subject.
     
  13. Der Alter

    Der Alter This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

    Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

    Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: ​

    All, 100% of mankind, have sinned, and come short of the glory of God, the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord, it is appointed unto, all 100% of, men once to die, but after this the judgment:

    These verses do not say that the wages of sin is death, resurrection, then a second death. There is not one single verse which specifically states that anyone will die a second time.
     
  14. cuja1

    cuja1 Newbie

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    Is the lake of fire destruction? Does life end there? Or is that where eternal suffering begins?
     
  15. South Bound

    South Bound I stand with Israel.

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    Yes, we all deserve Hell. I am no exception.
     
  16. South Bound

    South Bound I stand with Israel.

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    You have a Christian icon so why hasn't your pastor taught you about the holiness and righteousness of God?
     
  17. cuja1

    cuja1 Newbie

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    Here's one:

    "But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars--they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."
     
  18. cuja1

    cuja1 Newbie

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    I know all about that, and I'm not saying that I don't believe in eternal damnation. Really, my question is do you think you deserve it? And why?

    Because I don't think I deserve it. And it seems to me a necessary thing to believe.
     
  19. Hammster

    Hammster Every knee shall bow. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    If sinners didn't deserve hell, then Christ died for no reason.
     
  20. cuja1

    cuja1 Newbie

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    Not necessarily, it could be to give eternal life as opposed to end of existence.
     
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