Do you think you deserve eternal torment in hell?

[kLong0149]

No, not a jerk at all. Thank you for answering my question with an answer even though I answered your question with a question.

I follow Christ because there simply is no story more beautiful than God's grace. What sort of a god lays down his life for the peons he created? Only One God. And this perfect madness rules in the kingdom of our Lord. This upside-down, first-will-be-last-and-last-will-be-first kingdom. The world offers nothing like it. Never will.

I want to be just like my Dad when I grow up.

The trouble with following Jesus in order to avoid hell is that Jesus himself did not try to avoid hell. If we would follow him at all, we need to be ready to follow him straight into the fire.

I bet you're the type that people often take the wrong way aren't ya?

I guess Jesus had a similar effect on people lol..

I love what you said about following him straight into the fire, and I totally agree. I wish more people today felt that way. The one thing I hear from modern, especially American Christians, that just grinds my gears, is that God means for us to always be comfortable, rich and happy in our walk with Christ. REALLY? When did Jesus say that?! He said the exact opposite! Nowhere have I read that this life would be easy. Were told to expect hatred, persecution, even death.. I'm not seeing the verses about my bank account!!

Thankfully though, as rough as the road there may be, in the end we'll with him, as far as we could be from those flames..

But I digress..

About the punishment.. As with anything else, I'll take God at his word for it, as hard as it is to comprehend. Anything less than perfect is falling short of Gods glory, and if there's one thing I'm sure of, its that I'm far from perfect!

 

[seeingeyes]

I bet you're the type that people often take the wrong way aren't ya?

You have no idea, brother.

I guess Jesus had a similar effect on people lol..

I love what you said about following him straight into the fire, and I totally agree. I wish more people today felt that way. The one thing I hear from modern, especially American Christians, that just grinds my gears, is that God means for us to always be comfortable, rich and happy in our walk with Christ. REALLY? When did Jesus say that?! He said the exact opposite! Nowhere have I read that this life would be easy. Were told to expect hatred, persecution, even death.. I'm not seeing the verses about my bank account!!

Thankfully though, as rough as the road there may be, in the end we'll with him, as far as we could be from those flames..

But I digress..

Jesus preached a lot about the heart. The seat of motivation. The source of truest desire. And Jesus did not die for sin because he figured that it would be best for himself (clearly). He did it for love of others.

I think that it is important for us to have the same motivation if we want to follow him, want to emulate him. So trying to keep our own kiesters out of hell is, in the long run, simply not enough. We must be like those who say, "‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink?'"

About the punishment.. As with anything else, I'll take God at his word for it, as hard as it is to comprehend. Anything less than perfect is falling short of Gods glory, and if there's one thing I'm sure of, its that I'm far from perfect!

I've gotten a few tickets in my life. The last time I was pulled over, I was going 20 over the limit, and that's what my ticket was for. Even though it was uncomfortable to have to pay the fine and call my slow-driving husband to tell him that I got busted, I nevertheless felt that I was caught fair 'n' square. I paid my fine and that was the end of it.

But years back, I got pulled over because a cop tailgated me up to a light. I was turning left (blinker on). When the light turned green, I pulled up into the intersection and stopped to wait for passing traffic. This cop apparently didn't see my blinker and nearly ran into me.

Now, if the cop had been any other driver, nothing would have happened. Maybe an angry honk, a middle finger thrown, and away we all go. But she had something to prove apparently, and gave me a ticket for something that, had she not been wearing that uniform, she would have been in the wrong for.

That really stuck in my craw. I went to court three times trying to clear that off my record. ...I fought the law and the law won.

That fine was no higher (adjusting for inflation) than the last one I got. And by driving out to the court house 30 miles away three times to fight this, I probably doubled it. It would have been cheaper to just send in the cash. But that sense of injustice took a long time to go away.

Of course, this was just a small matter. A couple hundred bucks. Financially, it was no big deal, I just had to tighten my belt for a week or two (nothing I'm not used to, I'm a rust belt girl). And ultimately, it was no big deal, suck it up buttercup, take your licks and move on. But even as I told myself these things, I was surprised by the rage I felt whenever I thought of it. A tiny injustice, miniscule, not even a blip on the radar of the real corruption of this world, but injustice nonetheless.

My point is that the question of whether we truly believe we deserve what punishment we get is important in the big picture.

Imagine if one of your kids or your friends or your parents ends up in eternal torment. How many millions of years will it be before you forget that fact? How long will it take you to say "enough!" to your God? It is one thing to say that you do not comprehend it now, it will be quite another to live with it as it's happening.

 

[o2bwise]

then you don't know your own sin yet..
you have the same disease as stalin and hitler.. we all have the same disease( sin).
and have no right to live in the next age until you are cured of that disease( sin).

the life sucking black hole can not go into the next age immortal.
he loves us to much to allow it.

Nanna, you are reliant upon a belief system that while it may apply to you, does not apply to me.

I believe God finds everyone, ultimately. But, if He could not, believe those He does not find to cease to exist.

It appears to me you are requiring that one who is lost must live forever, but God said life is a gift given to the faithful and the lost perish and lack the gift (life).

Lastly, you brought up Stalin, but I just want to clarify that you did so for a reason entirely unlike mine.

Yours being to highlight the truth that we are all sinners in need of a redeemer, mine to highlight what I see as someone who just might have a malevolent enough character to wish eternal suffering for someone.


Blessings,

Tony

 

[o2bwise]

Hi seeingeyes,

seeingeyes:
The trouble with following Jesus in order to avoid hell is that Jesus himself did not try to avoid hell. If we would follow him at all, we need to be ready to follow him straight into the fire.

Amen!

Exodus 32:32
32 Yet now, if You will forgive their sin--but if not, I pray, blot me out of Your book which You have written."

Romans 9:3
3 For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my countrymen according to the flesh,

Hebrews 6:19-20
19 This hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and steadfast, and which enters the Presence behind the veil, 20 where the forerunner has entered for us, even Jesus, having become High Priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek

Revelation 14:4
These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These were redeemed from among men, being firstfruits to God and to the Lamb.


Blessings,

Tony

 

[NannaNae]

Nanna, you are reliant upon a belief system that while it may apply to you, does not apply to me.

I believe God finds everyone, ultimately.
Yours being to highlight the truth that we are all sinners in need of a redeemer, mine to highlight what I see as someone who just might have a malevolent enough character to wish eternal suffering for someone.


Blessings,

Tony

well your are right, maybe. I am sure none of us understand his definitions of life, death, hell.. time or anything. but pride will be why you are thrown in hell..


Thes.. starts with

They tell how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, 10 and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead—Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath.( thus the rescue and the wrath are at the same time)

chapter 5 ends with

.. 5 Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, 2 for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3 While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.

4 But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief. 5 You are all children of the light and children of the day. We do not belong to the night or to the darkness. 6 So then, let us not be like others, who are asleep, but let us be awake and sober. 7 For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk, get drunk at night. 8 But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, putting on faith and love as a breastplate, and the hope of salvation as a helmet. 9 For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. 10 He died for us so that, whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with him. 11 Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing.



19 Do not quench the Spirit. 20 Do not treat prophecies with contempt 21 but test them all; hold on to what is good, 22 reject every kind of evil.

23 May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 The one who calls you is faithful, and he will do it.


28 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you.

he talks about the night and day .. this is Life and death.. destiny

Galatians 6:8 Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.


where I will vary with most is this..
I think and can not prove..
his 3 1/2 years of HIs wrath .. wrath is to a eternal destruction and it goes to all who are resurrected at the first resurrection but who are not saved already or who do not repent.
.. I believe the " first resurrection.. " that resurrection is for a eternal immediate ( in the 31/2 years ) death for fighting against him. that wrath will be for all that will fight him directly or his prophets directly .

I think they die eternally for that rebellion alone. ( they should hope it's eternal ., I can't really prove it. ) .. with in that 3 1/2 years time in Revelation where men follow satan and his prophets and make war with God. ...
everyone pretends to be innocent..
but everyone is going to chose who they love and who they trust most ..

now some will be resurrected to his salvation and saved from the time of wrath.. I have seen their new bodies in heaven . sometime during that same 3 1/2 years they receive their new bodies. in his timing.

so those who sleep to me can also mean their new bodies which are sleep in the temple areas waiting for them to enter his kingdom/ temple . but they are still 'on/ of earth' for part of the 3 1/2 years. I have no idea why they didn't get resurrected then raptured when I did.. but there is very alive bodies waiting, just waiting for their people..

so sure if you are going to take up arms against God himself like an arrogant fool.. and clearly his people who can by the way kill you with a word. if you are going to fight them .. if anyone is so arrogant to do it...
they sure don't deserve his heaven anyway.
and they even lack even basic instincts like self preservation they will be so arrogant.
yes I think they will die eternally for it in a war with him and his directly .
so there is a resurrection and not just christian who are resurrected .. I been there and I seen it..

now read REV to understand what they are going to be resurrected too.
The time( 3 1/2 years of his WRATH>>> )

but a few must repent and not fight God in that time too because someone has bodies there waiting for them. but it sure isn't very many compared to what I saw was resurrected.. there was billions billions resurrected ... or maybe the bodies are of the ones who asked for salvation but he had duties for them in his 'time of wrath..' David had mighty men maybe those bodies were his might men. I only know I was to rest and pray for my brothers who were still "of earth.. ", I recently had a few other instructions about that time.. but i'm not going there.

and then it does in REV say also..

" blessed are those" who make it past around 1300 days . 1280? days .
so some may repent and refuse to fight God.
I think that would be wise , no matter what it may cost !

so if you are so innocent but so arrogant
do you think He has right to destroy you if you take up arms against him and the angels and his prophets but follow the devil and other ones who think they are something ? do you think that is innocent? does it deserve his forgiveness ?

FYI I had those dreams of the end times at about 15 and didn't understand them then or now..
Galatians 6:8 Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

"Do you think you deserve eternal torment in hell?"

Of course. As a filthy human deep in sin (as defined by God) from my earliest memories, then by God's standards, Hell is exactly what I deserve.

Fortunately Christians DON'T GET what they deserve.

Simple as that.

 

[he-man]

The trouble with following Jesus in order to avoid hell is that Jesus himself did not try to avoid hell. If we would follow him at all, we need to be ready to follow him straight into the fire.

1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Jer 8:2 And they shall spread them before the sun, and the moon, and all the host of heaven, whom they have loved, and whom they have served, and after whom they have walked, and whom they have sought, and whom they have worshipped: they shall not be gathered, nor be buried; they shall be for dung upon the face of the earth.
3 And death shall be chosen rather than life by all the residue of them that remain of this evil family, which remain in all the places whither I have driven them, saith the LORD of hosts.

Job 27:19 The rich man shall lie down, but he shall not be gathered: he openeth his eyes, and he is not.

Isa 66:16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.

Rev 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.