Do you think that the story of Adam and Eve literally happened?

[summerville]

It’s nevertheless true. If you look into the testimony of atheists who were believers in God before becoming steeped in the teachings of evolutionary biology, they say that. I believe Richard Dawkins says evolution gave him an intellectually satisfying life without God or something similar.

Not taking Genesis and Adam and Eve literally as if it was history doesn't mean a person is an athiest.

 

[coffee4u]

Not taking Genesis and Adam and Eve literally as if it was history doesn't mean a person is an athiest.

People have started there. People who question the Genesis account of creation also often question the global flood. Once a person does not believe in those it is easy for disbelief to spread to other miracles such as the Virgin birth and resurrection.

Galatians 5:9
"A little yeast works through the whole batch of dough."

 

[ZNP]

People have started there. People who question the Genesis account of creation also often question the global flood. Once a person does not believe in those it is easy for disbelief to spread to other miracles such as the Virgin birth and resurrection.

Galatians 5:9
"A little yeast works through the whole batch of dough."

I thought the geologists had already found the evidence for that global flood. Why would you still question it?

A meteorite hit the Indian ocean, it caused a large tsunami which left giant chevrons on Madagascar with seashells from the ocean bottom. We can also see the crater it left on the bottom of the Indian Ocean. This took place about 8,000 years ago. This event would have caused a huge amount of water to be vaporized and sent up into the stratosphere where it would have circled the globe and then returned as precipitation. Since this was the end of the last ice age this rain would have caused massive flash floods on these mountains. We have also seen the evidence of what are described as "Biblical" floods from the Himalayas and Rocky mountains at this time. Also, if the the ocean rose and flooded the Black Sea at this time you could have a situation where a large ark containing all of the domesticated animals could have risen with the black sea. There are over 100 different stories of this flood from many different civilizations and many include a story of a boat with animals. We also know that at this same time over 100 large species of ungulates went extinct on North America, South America, and Australasia. This would explain why virtually all large domesticated animals are native to Mesopotamia. Which is also the reason that the European civilization spread across the globe. They had oxen to do the plowing, they had horses which were the "tanks" until WWI, they had all of the childhood diseases associated with keeping herds of animals.

 

[summerville]

People have started there. People who question the Genesis account of creation also often question the global flood. Once a person does not believe in those it is easy for disbelief to spread to other miracles such as the Virgin birth and resurrection.

Galatians 5:9
"A little yeast works through the whole batch of dough."

Do you require miracles to believe in Jesus?

I've often thought the story of Adam and Eve... Cain and Abel were about the emergence of agriculture.. The transition between hunter-gatherers and people who lived in settle groups and had domesticated animals and farming. Their "sin" was trying to do it on their own instead of trusting in God's providence.

The fact that Cain's vegetable/grain offering was rejected in favor of a blood offering is quite interesting. Transition really isn't SIN, is it?

In any case, the earlier version of the Eden story is that it was a garden for the gods and mankind were the gardeners.

I have such admiration for the storytellers. This is their history..

 

[summerville]

I thought the geologists had already found the evidence for that global flood. Why would you still question it?

A meteorite hit the Indian ocean, it caused a large tsunami which left giant chevrons on Madagascar with seashells from the ocean bottom. We can also see the crater it left on the bottom of the Indian Ocean. This took place about 8,000 years ago. This event would have caused a huge amount of water to be vaporized and sent up into the stratosphere where it would have circled the globe and then returned as precipitation. Since this was the end of the last ice age this rain would have caused massive flash floods on these mountains. We have also seen the evidence of what are described as "Biblical" floods from the Himalayas and Rocky mountains at this time.

Also, if the the ocean rose and flooded the Black Sea at this time you could have a situation where a large ark containing all of the domesticated animals could have risen with the black sea. There are over 100 different stories of this flood from many different civilizations and many include a story of a boat with animals. We also know that at this same time over 100 large species of ungulates went extinct on North America, South America, and Australasia.

This would explain why virtually all large domesticated animals are native to Mesopotamia. Which is also the reason that the European civilization spread across the globe. They had oxen to do the plowing, they had horses which were the "tanks" until WWI, they had all of the childhood diseases associated with keeping herds of animals.

The Black Sea breech was a slow moving "flood".. Plenty of time to move livestock and families to higher ground.

The Noah flood is about the Euphrates River Basin circa 2900 BC. There's flood sediment, the king's list and the story of Ziusudra, or Zin-Suddu of Shuruppak. This story is the source for the Epic of Gilgamesh.

A map is helpful for realizing what Fertile Crescent and Nile Delta really means to ancient civilizations.

 

[summerville]

I thought the geologists had already found the evidence for that global flood. Why would you still question it?

A meteorite hit the Indian ocean, it caused a large tsunami which left giant chevrons on Madagascar with seashells from the ocean bottom. We can also see the crater it left on the bottom of the Indian Ocean. This took place about 8,000 years ago. This event would have caused a huge amount of water to be vaporized and sent up into the stratosphere where it would have circled the globe and then returned as precipitation. Since this was the end of the last ice age this rain would have caused massive flash floods on these mountains. We have also seen the evidence of what are described as "Biblical" floods from the Himalayas and Rocky mountains at this time.

Also, if the the ocean rose and flooded the Black Sea at this time you could have a situation where a large ark containing all of the domesticated animals could have risen with the black sea. There are over 100 different stories of this flood from many different civilizations and many include a story of a boat with animals. We also know that at this same time over 100 large species of ungulates went extinct on North America, South America, and Australasia.

This would explain why virtually all large domesticated animals are native to Mesopotamia. Which is also the reason that the European civilization spread across the globe. They had oxen to do the plowing, they had horses which were the "tanks" until WWI, they had all of the childhood diseases associated with keeping herds of animals.

The Black Sea breech was a slow moving "flood".. Plenty of time to move livestock and families to higher ground.

The Noah flood is about the Euphrates River Basin circa 2900 BC. There's flood sediment, the king's list and the story of Ziusudra, or Zin-Suddu of Shuruppak. This story is the source for the Epic of Gilgamesh.

A map is helpful for realizing what Fertile Crescent and Nile Delta really means to ancient civilizations.

 

[summerville]

I thought the geologists had already found the evidence for that global flood. Why would you still question it?

A meteorite hit the Indian ocean, it caused a large tsunami which left giant chevrons on Madagascar with seashells from the ocean bottom. We can also see the crater it left on the bottom of the Indian Ocean. This took place about 8,000 years ago. This event would have caused a huge amount of water to be vaporized and sent up into the stratosphere where it would have circled the globe and then returned as precipitation. Since this was the end of the last ice age this rain would have caused massive flash floods on these mountains. We have also seen the evidence of what are described as "Biblical" floods from the Himalayas and Rocky mountains at this time.

Also, if the the ocean rose and flooded the Black Sea at this time you could have a situation where a large ark containing all of the domesticated animals could have risen with the black sea. There are over 100 different stories of this flood from many different civilizations and many include a story of a boat with animals. We also know that at this same time over 100 large species of ungulates went extinct on North America, South America, and Australasia.

This would explain why virtually all large domesticated animals are native to Mesopotamia. Which is also the reason that the European civilization spread across the globe. They had oxen to do the plowing, they had horses which were the "tanks" until WWI, they had all of the childhood diseases associated with keeping herds of animals.

The Black Sea breech was a slow moving "flood".. Plenty of time to move livestock and families to higher ground.

The Noah flood is about the Euphrates River Basin circa 2900 BC. There's flood sediment, the king's list and the story of Ziusudra, or Zin-Suddu of Shuruppak. This story is the source for the Epic of Gilgamesh.

A map is helpful for realizing what Fertile Crescent and Nile Delta really means to ancient civilizations.

 

[summerville]

I thought the geologists had already found the evidence for that global flood. Why would you still question it?

A meteorite hit the Indian ocean, it caused a large tsunami which left giant chevrons on Madagascar with seashells from the ocean bottom. We can also see the crater it left on the bottom of the Indian Ocean. This took place about 8,000 years ago. This event would have caused a huge amount of water to be vaporized and sent up into the stratosphere where it would have circled the globe and then returned as precipitation. Since this was the end of the last ice age this rain would have caused massive flash floods on these mountains. We have also seen the evidence of what are described as "Biblical" floods from the Himalayas and Rocky mountains at this time.

Also, if the the ocean rose and flooded the Black Sea at this time you could have a situation where a large ark containing all of the domesticated animals could have risen with the black sea. There are over 100 different stories of this flood from many different civilizations and many include a story of a boat with animals. We also know that at this same time over 100 large species of ungulates went extinct on North America, South America, and Australasia.

This would explain why virtually all large domesticated animals are native to Mesopotamia. Which is also the reason that the European civilization spread across the globe. They had oxen to do the plowing, they had horses which were the "tanks" until WWI, they had all of the childhood diseases associated with keeping herds of animals.

The Black Sea breech was a slow moving "flood".. Plenty of time to move livestock and families to higher ground.

The Noah flood is about the Euphrates River Basin circa 2900 BC. There's flood sediment, the king's list and the story of Ziusudra, or Zin-Suddu of Shuruppak. This story is the source for the Epic of Gilgamesh.

A map is helpful for realizing what Fertile Crescent and Nile Delta really means to ancient civilizations.

 

[ZNP]

The Black Sea breech was a slow moving "flood".. Plenty of time to move livestock and families to higher ground.

The Noah flood is about the Euphrates River Basin circa 2900 BC. There's flood sediment, the king's list and the story of Ziusudra, or Zin-Suddu of Shuruppak. This story is the source for the Epic of Gilgamesh.

A map is helpful for realizing what Fertile Crescent and Nile Delta really means to ancient civilizations.

could you give me the reference and evidence on that? The last paper I read on this appeared to be basic hedging. I am not aware of any geologic test that could distinguish between a 40 day flood and a 100 year flood, so it be great to learn something new. Thanks

 

[Tom 1]

People have started there. People who question the Genesis account of creation also often question the global flood. Once a person does not believe in those it is easy for disbelief to spread to other miracles such as the Virgin birth and resurrection.

Galatians 5:9
"A little yeast works through the whole batch of dough."

That’s the real problem with this kind of thing. If a person’s faith is based on supposedly ‘literal’ readings of the text, which aren’t actually literal, but anyway, then that is a pretty shaky foundation. Faith that can’t withstand a serious consideration of the text it is based in is closer to credulity than considered belief.

 

[Paul James]

you were asked...."Kees what reasons would you give for Adam & Eve not being a literal account?"

And replied back with.....



let me ask you this.....I see you have "christian" listed by your name. Understanding that, why is it you write off Genesis because of science...Yet, have the ability to reject science when science says if you die you stay dead on day 3?

Jist curious.

My opinion is that if Genesis is written off as how God actually created the world, then the death of Jesus on the cross is written off too, because both are intricately linked.

 

[Paul James]

Because no talking snakes and magic fruits have ever been observed by science as far as I'm aware.

There is no scientific basis for the born again experience, but it happens. Science cannot explain how Paul the Apostle instantly changed from hating Christians enough to have them imprisoned and killed, to being totally devoted to Christ for the rest of his life and being prepared to die for Christ.

 

[Paul James]

The story of Adam and Eve doesn't appear to be literal. A woman made from a rib bone and talking snakes? I mean come on now.

Is it truth? Yes. Should it be viewed as literal reality? No.

If you don't believe it, then why should you believe that Jesus was a real person who died on a real cross? If you are not going to believe one part of the Bible, you might as well not believe the rest of it, because you can't really know whether anything written in the Bible is true or not.

 

[Paul James]

Its unfortunate that some Christians are able and willing to believe literally anything, so long as they feel as though it's true.

Even to the extent that they would reject what is observed to the contrary in physical reality.

And so the resurrection of Christ is contrary to physical reality as well. And Paul says in 1 Corinthians that if Christ is not raised from the dead, then our faith is in vain, and that this short life is all we have, because if Christ is not raised from the dead, then nobody will rise from the dead, and the result will be oblivion.

 

[Paul James]

Do you require miracles to believe in Jesus?

I've often thought the story of Adam and Eve... Cain and Abel were about the emergence of agriculture.. The transition between hunter-gatherers and people who lived in settle groups and had domesticated animals and farming. Their "sin" was trying to do it on their own instead of trusting in God's providence.

The fact that Cain's vegetable/grain offering was rejected in favor of a blood offering is quite interesting. Transition really isn't SIN, is it?

In any case, the earlier version of the Eden story is that it was a garden for the gods and mankind were the gardeners.

I have such admiration for the storytellers. This is their history..

It all depends on which Jesus you believe in. The historical Jesus as described in the gospels, or the Christ of faith which can be any Christ you choose that suits you best. The historical Jesus believed that Adam and Eve were real people who were created by God, who prepared a garden for them to live in and maintain.

 

[Paul James]

The Black Sea breech was a slow moving "flood".. Plenty of time to move livestock and families to higher ground.

The Noah flood is about the Euphrates River Basin circa 2900 BC. There's flood sediment, the king's list and the story of Ziusudra, or Zin-Suddu of Shuruppak. This story is the source for the Epic of Gilgamesh.

A map is helpful for realizing what Fertile Crescent and Nile Delta really means to ancient civilizations.

If the Flood was just a local flood, the water would have merely drained into the Persian Gulf and would have only taken a few weeks to drain away instead of a whole year. Also, Flood sediment along with sea life fossils in the rock layers in the Grand Canyon, and near the top of Mt Everest and the Andes. The Bible states that not only did it rain from above, but the crust of the earth was totally disrupted, to the point where the land mass was split apart into the separate continents. So, the Biblical Flood was not a minor affair, but a world-wide cataclysmic event.

 

[Paul James]

could you give me the reference and evidence on that? The last paper I read on this appeared to be basic hedging. I am not aware of any geologic test that could distinguish between a 40 day flood and a 100 year flood, so it be great to learn something new. Thanks

Every world culture has its own flood myth. This is understandable because between the Flood and the tower of Babel there was just one basic culture and language, but when the population was split up into different language groups and migrated around the world, they took the Flood story with them, and over the thousands of years, the story changed according to the development of the particular culture and religion. But every culture has their own myth about a cataclysmic Flood, but the Bible account is the only one that presents a clear, unadulterated history of what actually happened.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

My opinion is that if Genesis is written off as how God actually created the world, then the death of Jesus on the cross is written off too, because both are intricately linked.

You are absolutely right. When one investigates real unbiased
science on these matters, one finds the Bible tells accurately the events in the past. When one rejects Genesis as happening in space and time, one‘s faith is diminished. I have yet to meet a believer who rejects Genesis including what Jesus says about it, who possesses a robust faith and understanding of God. They are saved but that’s it. Baby christians they remain.

 

[Paul James]

You are absolutely right. When one investigates real unbiased
science on these matters, one finds the Bible tells accurately the events in the past. When one rejects Genesis as happening in space and time, one‘s faith is diminished. I have yet to meet a believer who rejects Genesis including what Jesus says about it, who possesses a robust faith and understanding of God. They are saved but that’s it. Baby christians they remain.

A delusion is something that people believe in despite a total lack of evidence.
Richard Dawkins.

This is why theistic evolution is a delusion, because there is no observable evidence for it. The "evidence" for it is based on guesswork and artists impressions.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

A delusion is something that people believe in despite a total lack of evidence.
Richard Dawkins.

This is why theistic evolution is a delusion, because there is no observable evidence for it. The "evidence" for it is based on guesswork and artists impressions.

As far as I can tell from discussions, the motivation is to be accepted in the atheist community. They are actually not accepted in either. Fence sitters.

They refuse to be willing to suffer for Christ but want to be honored in both. Not sure what Jesus will have to say to them. He spoke of Noah and the son of Adam as real. One things for sure, “well done” they won’t hear.