Do you think demons can be good?

[juvenissun]

1) Where does Scripture suggest/say that the devils are stuck in their state?

2) Where does Scripture suggest/say that the devils cannot be forgiven if they did repent?

You highlighted my point that Scripture says nothing, so I assume you disagree with that assessment. If you know of Scripture that actually does address this subject, then feel free to discuss it. I know of nothing in Holy Writ that says anything one way or another, and thus the question is, this side of heaven, unanswerable.

-CryptoLutheran

The key is that there is no Gospel to angels. Angels do not understand the coming of the Holy Spirit to human.

I Peter 1:12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

 

[juvenissun]

Where does Scripture say they can't repent?

If Scripture is silent on such an issue, how can we possibly know anything like this one way or the other?

Pure speculation done in a vacuum is no basis for theological pronouncement.

-CryptoLutheran

Repent is not only to admit your sin, but is forgiven and become acceptable (again) to God (otherwise, repent is meaningless). When we (human and angel) sin, we do know we sinned. In Old Testament time, Jews made offerings to "cover" their sins. For us, our sins have been covered by Jesus Christ. But for angels, there is no such option for them. Their sins stay with them (acknowledged or not) until the dooms day. So, admit sin does not quite make the meaning of repent.

In my theology, sinful angels DO have a way out. But that is another long story.

 

[juvenissun]

I think the emnity and the state of unforgiven-ness between God and the fallen angels is mutual. I also think God's judgement of them is final and absolute. These lines were drawn before the foundation of the world, were they not?

Absolutely. Think this: If sinful angel could repent and be forgiven, then why would God want to create human (Adam)? Why doesn't God tell angels directly: "you are my sons" and share the power of His Kingdom with them?

 

[DamianWarS]

1) Where does Scripture suggest/say that the devils are stuck in their state?

2) Where does Scripture suggest/say that the devils cannot be forgiven if they did repent?

You highlighted my point that Scripture says nothing, so I assume you disagree with that assessment. If you know of Scripture that actually does address this subject, then feel free to discuss it. I know of nothing in Holy Writ that says anything one way or another, and thus the question is, this side of heaven, unanswerable.

-CryptoLutheran

where does scripture write about any such "rules" of these beings? We are just not privileged to that information and I think it would be irresponsible to prescribe our own model of grace upon a being that has never expressed it was intended for.

 

[ViaCrucis]

where does scripture write about any such "rules" of these beings? We are just not privileged to that information and I think it would be irresponsible to prescribe our own model of grace upon a being that has never expressed it was intended for.

I agree. That's been more-or-less, my point. Scripture simply doesn't address this sort of topic, and thus we shouldn't take it upon ourselves to make conclusions about things God has told us nothing about.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[juvenissun]

where does scripture write about any such "rules" of these beings? We are just not privileged to that information and I think it would be irresponsible to prescribe our own model of grace upon a being that has never expressed it was intended for.

I think you may have pretty serious problem about the purpose of human in God's plan. Human is unique in all God's creations. We are His "sons" and His "brides". Could angel call God as "Father"? I don't think so. We are (or will be) above angels. We WILL command angels in the Heaven.

There are plenty of Scripture verses separate us from angels. Jesus the Lord died for us, not for angels. This is very very important. Human is allowed to be "reborn". Angels can not. Human can have Holy Spirit. Angles can not.

The Bible does not even mention the creation of angels. Do you really need to see a verse of that?

 

[ViaCrucis]

I think you may have pretty serious problem about the purpose of human in God's plan. Human is unique in all God's creations. We are His "sons" and His "brides". Could angel call God as "Father"? I don't think so. We are (or will be) above angels. We WILL command angels in the Heaven.

There are plenty of Scripture verses separate us from angels. Jesus the Lord died for us, not for angels. This is very very important. Human is allowed to be "reborn". Angels can not. Human can have Holy Spirit. Angles can not.

The Bible does not even mention the creation of angels. Do you really need to see a verse of that?

The Bible is not a compendium of all possible information. It's for us, and we're human beings. Therefore Scripture talks about God's relationship with us, His plans for us, and His purposes for us.

Whatever God's relationship is with the angels and His plans and purposes for them are it does not seem to concern us, or at least it does not concern us enough for God to have deigned to talk about it.

As such we should probably remain silent concerning such things we know nothing about.

Whatever God's plans and purposes are for and with the angels may be, that's His and their business, not ours.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Myshkin99]

I think you should stop praying for Satan, because doctrinally, he has you worshipping him and guilt-tripping others into doing so. I should tell you, Satan is not only fallen - he consciously chooses to be the enemy of man and God. He is the Father of Lies and is incapable of speaking the Truth. He is your eternal enemy and has no interest in being redeemed of God.

Praying that the entity most wretched, most far from God, be redeemed to God's love is somehow worshiping Satan? No, it is worshiping and praising God in His almighty power. What better praise than to ask for such enormous forgiveness...not for us, but for our sworn enemy!

I will continue for Satan's redemption. When Our Lord asks me if during my life I prayed for the least, most miserable, and most hated, my most bitter enemies...I will be able to look Him in the eye and say "yes".

 

[juvenissun]

The Bible is not a compendium of all possible information. It's for us, and we're human beings. Therefore Scripture talks about God's relationship with us, His plans for us, and His purposes for us.

Whatever God's relationship is with the angels and His plans and purposes for them are it does not seem to concern us, or at least it does not concern us enough for God to have deigned to talk about it.

As such we should probably remain silent concerning such things we know nothing about.

Whatever God's plans and purposes are for and with the angels may be, that's His and their business, not ours.

-CryptoLutheran

Not so.

The reason that God has His plan for us is because He will not have the same plan for angels. It IS our business because there was, is and will be a lot interactions between us and angels.

We do not know much. But can we say that for sure?



Rev 19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.
19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

 

[Blessedj01]

Where does Scripture say they can't repent?

If Scripture is silent on such an issue, how can we possibly know anything like this one way or the other?

Pure speculation done in a vacuum is no basis for theological pronouncement.

-CryptoLutheran

It's not speculation, there is plenty of scripture that supports this position. Any that people post, you just ignore.

Do your own research because you are the one confused about the question.

 

[Blessedj01]

Praying that the entity most wretched, most far from God, be redeemed to God's love is somehow worshiping Satan? No, it is worshiping and praising God in His almighty power. What better praise than to ask for such enormous forgiveness...not for us, but for our sworn enemy!

I will continue for Satan's redemption. When Our Lord asks me if during my life I prayed for the least, most miserable, and most hated, my most bitter enemies...I will be able to look Him in the eye and say "yes".

He's not wretched and far from God, he wants to BE God. He stood right next to God and continues to visit Him every day to accuse us day and night at the Mountain of The Most High.

Pull your head out of the sand, bro. Satan is your enemy...and you are not impressing anyone (least of all God) by publicly claiming piety by praying for him.

You're wasting your time and worse yet, you're insulting God by questioning His judgement that Satan is under eternal condemnation.

 

[juvenissun]

The Bible is not a compendium of all possible information. It's for us, and we're human beings. Therefore Scripture talks about God's relationship with us, His plans for us, and His purposes for us.

Whatever God's relationship is with the angels and His plans and purposes for them are it does not seem to concern us, or at least it does not concern us enough for God to have deigned to talk about it.

As such we should probably remain silent concerning such things we know nothing about.

Whatever God's plans and purposes are for and with the angels may be, that's His and their business, not ours.

-CryptoLutheran

Here is a living proof that it IS our concern. We may not know the difference between human and angel.

Praying that the entity most wretched, most far from God, be redeemed to God's love is somehow worshiping Satan? No, it is worshiping and praising God in His almighty power. What better praise than to ask for such enormous forgiveness...not for us, but for our sworn enemy!

I will continue for Satan's redemption. When Our Lord asks me if during my life I prayed for the least, most miserable, and most hated, my most bitter enemies...I will be able to look Him in the eye and say "yes".

 

[Myshkin99]

You're wasting your time and worse yet, you're insulting God by questioning His judgement that Satan is under eternal condemnation.

By that logic, any time you pray for anything you are questioning God's judgment. By this standard, the only logical prayer is "thy will be done".

PS - God could destroy Satan. Make him cease to exist. Yet he doesn't. Why?

 

[Blessedj01]

By that logic, any time you pray for anything you are questioning God's judgment. By this standard, the only logical prayer is "thy will be done".

Crazy that, because that basically is the only logical prayer. It's the crux of the Lord's Prayer.

It's not questioning God's judgement to pray for "anything," it's questioning God's judgement to pray for his ENEMY NUMBER ONE whom isn't a soul for your concern, nor someone who can be called back from damnation as God Himself has opposed him forever.

 

[Blessedj01]

PS - God could destroy Satan. Make him cease to exist. Yet he doesn't. Why?

...a question for a different thread you could start perhaps? My shortest answer is, He has already defeated Satan and only allows him to have some influence on this world because He is using him to demonstrate His victory and His glory.

God has his timing and Satan is serving His purpose, for now. The question you should ask is: "God could destroy ME. Make ME cease to exist. Yet he doesn't. Why?"

He will spend eternity in hell - he will be punished for what he has done. God will not simply destroy him or make him cease to exist, but functionally he will be non-existent. You will not change that outcome with your prayers.

 

[Myshkin99]

Crazy that, because that basically is the only logical prayer. It's the crux of the Lord's Prayer.

So you advocate abridging the Lord's Prayer to "Thy will be done"? If the rest of the prayer weren't valid, why would Jesus tell us to pray this way?

So Jesus taught us (Matt 6:13) to pray that we be delivered from the evil one, but somehow it is blasphemy to pray that the evil one be made not evil...or at least destroyed? That makes no sense at all.

Yes, I think it is wrong to not pray for Satan's redemption. I think God wants to hear these prayers. I think that if we take Jesus' message to heart, we will pray for Satan.

 

[Myshkin99]

...You will not change that outcome with your prayers.

"And whatsoever you shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son."

 

[Lion King]

Satan WILL burn, that is certain. As it was written, so shall it be...

And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Revelation 20:10

 

[tangled]

Satan WILL burn, that is certain. As it was written, so shall it be...

And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Revelation 20:10

true that.

 

[juvenissun]

By that logic, any time you pray for anything you are questioning God's judgment. By this standard, the only logical prayer is "thy will be done".

PS - God could destroy Satan. Make him cease to exist. Yet he doesn't. Why?

Satan helps God to sort us out. When the number is up (Rev 6:11), the show will start.