Do you think crowns in heaven refer to access to certain secret places?

[Tree of Life]

I see no reason to think that. As a matter of fact, I totally disagree.

What is your scripture or reference to think it’s a metaphor? Or your reasoning

These would have to be taken case by case.

Let's take James 1:12 as an example - "Blessed is the man who remains steadfast under trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him."

James says that the one who endures to the end will receive the "crown of life". "Crown of life" is
τὸν στέφανον τῆς ζωῆς. Tes Zoes is in the genitive which is a notoriously slippery case. This could be a genitive of apposition. In that case, James would be saying: "the crown which is life", IOW - eternal life.

So is the crown of life a literal crown that all who endure will receive? Or is it a metaphor for eternal life? I suggest that it makes better sense as a metaphor for eternal life. All Christians are called to endure to the end and only those who endure will be saved and given eternal life.

 

[ToBeLoved]

These would have to be taken case by case.

Let's take James 1:12 as an example - "Blessed is the man who remains steadfast under trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him."

James says that the one who endures to the end will receive the "crown of life". "Crown of life" is
τὸν στέφανον τῆς ζωῆς. Tes Zoes is in the genitive which is a notoriously slippery case. This could be a genitive of apposition. In that case, James would be saying: "the crown which is life", IOW - eternal life.
.

I don’t see your understanding or how you translate it “the crown which is life” or IoW eternal life.

What is “in the genitive”? And “”genitive of apposition”?

I’m not understanding what you are trying to say or how you conclude this.

I think unless you can show different that this is specifically talking about a crown and you are generalizing this verse to have no meaning

 

[Tree of Life]

I don’t see your understanding or how you translate it “the crown which is life” or IoW eternal life.

What is “in the genitive”? And “”genitive of apposition”?

I’m not understanding what you are trying to say or how you conclude this.

Genitive is a greek case. It's also used in English.

When we say "the word of God", the phrase "of God" is in the genitive. It could mean many things:

1. The word about God
2. The word which comes from God
3. The word which belongs to God
4. The word which has godlike qualities

Other options are possible as well. In the Greek there can be even further options. One option is the genitive of apposition. "The crown of life" could mean:

1. The crown which belongs to life
2. The crown which is life
3. The crown which comes from life
4. The crown which has life-like qualities
5. The crown which comes from life

I think that option (2) makes the most sense. This is the genitive of apposition. "The crown - namely eternal life" would be an acceptable way to translate it.

 

[grasping the after wind]

Crown of life -
James 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
Revelation 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

Crown of glory -
1 Peter 5:4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.

Crown of righteousness -
2 Timothy 4:8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

Imperishable crown -
1 Corinthians 9:25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.

Crown of rejoicing -
1 Thessalonians 2:19 For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming?

Seems to me, from the quotes out of context as they are, that the first three "crowns" are simply universally received by all true believers and not portioned out by some system of reward to special groups of believers. All true believers would qualify as loving Him, being faithful unto death and loving his appearing. So eternal life, righteousness and glory come to all true believers through Christ and not just to a few that have somehow earned one or more of them in accordance with some special requirements others have failed to meet.
The fourth passage only says that there is a corruptible crown that some seek. It has nothing to do with any heavenly system of rewards for special groups of believers and from what I can tell is sought not by believers but by pagans.
The fifth passage mentions a crown of rejoicing that I cannot see has any relation to a specific system of reward in heaven.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Genitive is a greek case. It's also used in English.

When we say "the word of God", the phrase "of God" is in the genitive. It could mean many things:

1. The word about God
2. The word which comes from God
3. The word which belongs to God
4. The word which has godlike qualities

Other options are possible as well. In the Greek there can be even further options. One option is the genitive of apposition. "The crown of life" could mean:

1. The crown which belongs to life
2. The crown which is life
3. The crown which comes from life
4. The crown which has life-like qualities
5. The crown which comes from life

I think that option (2) makes the most sense. This is the genitive of apposition. "The crown - namely eternal life" would be an acceptable way to translate it.

I disagree. Looking at Strong’s concordance I see what you are saying, but then I also see verses in Matthew, Mark where they are talking of earthly crowns made with human hands, but in the verse we are discussing James 1:12 it is talking about a heavenly crown or a crown given by God, not of earthly origin.

I think in this specific verse, that it does mean a crown given by God.

God does not call salvation a crown, so I do not believe it is referencing salvation in a general sense, which it seems to me is what you are saying.

 

[Tree of Life]

God does not call salvation a crown, so I do not believe it is referencing salvation in a general sense, which it seems to me is what you are saying.

This is the very thing in question. Perhaps he does call salvation a crown. Perhaps that's exactly what's going on in James 1:12.

 

[ToBeLoved]

This is the very thing in question. Perhaps he does call salvation a crown. Perhaps that's exactly what's going on in James 1:12.

It is not supported anywhere else in scripture. Scripture interprets scripture so before I would jump to that conclusion, I would need to see evidence.

I do not see that evidence.

 

[Tree of Life]

It is not supported anywhere else in scripture. Scripture interprets scripture so before I would jump to that conclusion, I would need to see evidence.

I do not see that evidence.

Are there other parts of Scripture that speak of salvation as being exalted and receiving kingly authority? Yes, there are many. Consider Ephesians 2:6.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

It is not supported anywhere else in scripture. Scripture interprets scripture so before I would jump to that conclusion, I would need to see evidence.

I do not see that evidence.

Keep reading (and praying) >>
"12 The man who patiently endures the temptations and trials that come to him is the truly happy man. For once his testing is complete he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to all who love him.

13-16 A man must not say when he is tempted, “God is tempting me.” For God has no dealings with evil, and does not himself tempt anyone. No, a man’s temptation is due to the pull of his own inward desires, which can be enormously attractive. His own desire takes hold of him, and that produces sin. And sin in the long run means death ... ... "

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

All Christians are called to endure to the end and only those who endure will be saved and given eternal life.

Many ignore this, and don't care. (See 'instability' below) ;

PHILLIPS When all kinds of trials and temptations crowd into your lives my brothers, don’t resent them as intruders, but welcome them as friends! Realise that they come to test your faith and to produce in you the quality of endurance. But let the process go on until that endurance is fully developed, and you will find you have become men of mature character with the right sort of independence. And if, in the process, any of you does not know how to meet any particular problem he has only to ask God—who gives generously to all men without making them feel foolish or guilty—and he may be quite sure that the necessary wisdom will be given him. But he must ask in sincere faith without secret doubts as to whether he really wants God’s help or not. The man who trusts God, but with inward reservations, is like a wave of the sea, carried forward by the wind one moment and driven back the next. That sort of man cannot hope to receive anything from God, and the life of a man of divided loyalty will reveal instability at every turn.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Are there other parts of Scripture that speak of salvation as being exalted and receiving kingly authority? Yes, there are many. Consider Ephesians 2:6.

It seems to me that you are now jumping to another subject/topic.

We were talking about crowns and your point seemed to be that it is not a particular crown given to us by God, but a general part of salvation.
Ephesians 2:6 doesn't support your premise and has nothing to do with the crown which was our conversation.

You are taking a general statement of who we are in Christ and trying to tie it to James 1:12 but I don't see the correlation or how this verse supports your interpretation of James 1:12.

If James is specific to a crown that will be given in the future, then it is not a general statement about salvation. Ephesians 2:6 is a general statement about salvation.

So not correated, IMHO.

You are making wide sweeping generalizations here. Not supported by specific scripture that has a specific meaning in context.

I need specific verses, in context relating to a heavenly crown.

 

[MyGivenNameIsKeith]

Seems to me, from the quotes out of context as they are, that the first three "crowns" are simply universally received by all true believers and not portioned out by some system of reward to special groups of believers. All true believers would qualify as loving Him, being faithful unto death and loving his appearing. So eternal life, righteousness and glory come to all true believers through Christ and not just to a few that have somehow earned one or more of them in accordance with some special requirements others have failed to meet.
The fourth passage only says that there is a corruptible crown that some seek. It has nothing to do with any heavenly system of rewards for special groups of believers and from what I can tell is sought not by believers but by pagans.
The fifth passage mentions a crown of rejoicing that I cannot see has any relation to a specific system of reward in heaven.

I'm just writing what is written. If you feel it's "out of context", as it were, keep in mind these verses are not opinions but scripture. I was more or less providing the verses for the thread so that we all could see what it says and not just ramble on about opinions.
As far as being out of context, I'm not quite sure they are. After all in the end it is shown that we cast our crowns before him
[Revelation 4:10 The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying, ] .
If we never received said "crowns", what would then be cast before him?
Incorruptible -
Can you not see that we must put on the incorruptible?
1 Corinthians 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
Life -
That we receive eternal life?
1 John 5:13 And this is the promise that He Himself made to us: eternal life.
Rejoicing -
That in that day there will be rejoicing?
Isaiah 25:9 And it shall be said in that day, Lo, this is our God; we have waited for him, and he will save us: this is the LORD; we have waited for him, we will be glad and rejoice in his salvation.
Righteousness -
Genesis 15:6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.
That our faith in his sacrifice is attributed to us as righteousness, much like Abraham's faith was attributed to him as righteousness?

 

[grasping the after wind]

I'm just writing what is written. If you feel it's "out of context", as it were, keep in mind these verses are not opinions but scripture. I was more or less providing the verses for the thread so that we all could see what it says and not just ramble on about opinions.
As far as being out of context, I'm not quite sure they are. After all in the end it is shown that we cast our crowns before him
[Revelation 4:10 The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying, ] .
If we never received said "crowns", what would then be cast before him?
Incorruptible -
Can you not see that we must put on the incorruptible?
1 Corinthians 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
Life -
That we receive eternal life?
1 John 5:13 And this is the promise that He Himself made to us: eternal life.
Rejoicing -
That in that day there will be rejoicing?
Isaiah 25:9 And it shall be said in that day, Lo, this is our God; we have waited for him, and he will save us: this is the LORD; we have waited for him, we will be glad and rejoice in his salvation.
Righteousness -
Genesis 15:6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.
That our faith in his sacrifice is attributed to us as righteousness, much like Abraham's faith was attributed to him as righteousness?

Any time one quotes a single verse or a part of a verse it is being quoted out of context. That does not necessarily mean one cannot get the full meaning in the same way as if the verse would have been read within context. What it does mean is that the one reading it does not know for sure if he/she is getting that full meaning. This is why I prefaced my remarks on the passages with the caveat. It was not a criticism of your quoting the verses rather it was because I was unsure of my interpretations due to the fact I only had the verses in front of me and not the context in which the verses resided.

 

[MyGivenNameIsKeith]

Any time one quotes a single verse or a part of a verse it is being quoted out of context. That does not necessarily mean one cannot get the full meaning in the same way as if the verse would have been read within context. What it does mean is that the one reading it does not know for sure if he/she is getting that full meaning. This is why I prefaced my remarks on the passages with the caveat. It was not a criticism of your quoting the verses rather it was because I was unsure of my interpretations due to the fact I only had the verses in front of me and not the context in which the verses resided.

Your definition of Out of context :
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 11:35 Jesus wept.
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
I am no Pharisee. I don't pretend to be self-righteous, nor a hypocrite. I read and study the word a book at a time, a chapter at a time, a story at a time, a sentence at a time. Sometimes word by word. There are depths to God's word that most people will not take the time to delve into. Break the word down, let it teach you. After all, It is all about Jesus and salvation and wonderful things.
Otherwise, you are attempting to identify me as Satan in taking scripture out of context which I do not do. God judging my thoughts and intents, this is not the case.
I am a sinner, saved by grace. And I trust in his word. I trust him to be faithful and true.

My definition of context and the power of God's word....
John 3:16 was the verse that stuck in my heart. That moved me to salvation. Not John chapter 3...
Luke 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?
shows the heart responding to the word of God.
Did you never correlate the dove in Genesis to the Holy Spirit?
Or see that every thing Jesus did, everything Jesus said, and everything that seems to be "new" about what Jesus was in the New Testament is in the Old Testament? If it were all about being "in context", it would never be seen, because they are different books, different authors. See how Philip in the book of Acts speaks to the eunuch concerning the book of Isaiah, and how it leads to Jesus. Everything about God's word is about Jesus. So there is nothing out of context except the intent. There are so many ways to connect different parts and verses to each other it is beyond fathoming. But in the end there is only one way to the Father, and that is through Christ.