Do you surrender your free will when you are Born Again?

[Carl Emerson]

Not in a million years... He showed me the huge chasm between His Holyness and my deep depravity.

I am talking about the encounter with Him that leads you to realise that He is God and Lord and accepts you as you are, and invites you to give over control of you life to Him and receive His presence within. This requires whole heartedness but not perfection or no one would be saved.

 

[RDKirk]

Also, He clearly has demonstrated that He does not want total control of our lives. That while He certainly can, that is not His will.

When was that demonstrated?

 

[Jonaitis]

Following this line how is it then possible to be born again without a whole hearted commitment ??

We are born again under the preaching of the gospel.

In saying that we must commit ourselves to God in order to be born again is putting the cart before the horse. You must be born again before you will ever put your faith in Christ, its prerequisite to conversion. No amount of effort or striving will bring you to be regenerated, that is something entirely monergistic.

"The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.” - John 3:8

Your "whole-hearted commitment" would be an evidence of regeneration, but not a condition for it.

Let me ask you: did you choose to be born? How then can you choose to be born again? The analogy shows that the work is entirely independent of you and entirely dependent on God. He brings you from death to life. It is an act of spiritual resurrection, you cannot perform that yourself. Jesus did not call out to Lazarus to first "commit himself" before raising him. He was dead and could do nothing.

 

[Carl Emerson]

We are born again under the preaching of the gospel.

Some are born again without being under the preaching of the Gospel - a friend of mine was a gang leader in prison for murder, he was born again in his cell, radically changed by God's soveriegn grace and eventually became a vicar in the Anglican Church.

In saying that we must commit ourselves to God in order to be born again is putting the cart before the horse. You must be born again before you will ever put your faith in Christ, its prerequisite to conversion. No amount of effort or striving will bring you to be regenerated, that is something entirely monergistic.

I think this discussion is getting bogged down by lack of definition.
What do you think it means to be born again.
Can a believers half hearted response to God result in being born again?
This is clearly not the case if the words of Jeremiah and Ezekiel concerning the New Covenant are to be believed.

Your "whole-hearted commitment" would be an evidence of regeneration, but not a condition for it.

Again if you don't fully give yourself to Jesus you cant be born again.

Let me ask you: did you choose to be born? How then can you choose to be born again? The analogy shows that the work is entirely independent of you and entirely dependent on God. He brings you from death to life. It is an act of spiritual resurrection, you cannot perform that yourself. Jesus did not call out to Lazarus to first "commit himself" before raising him. He was dead and could do nothing.

I didn't claim that you can choose to be born again. I have already stated that He draws the individual and gives the grace to surrender to Him in whole hearted commitment. Why do you keep asking questions that we are in agreement on. Why are you treating my offering with distain unless you are simply out to derail the thread.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Back on track...

Do we surrender our free will when we are born again ???

 

[St_Worm2]

Do we surrender our free will when we are born again ???

Hi Carl, you are born again, but you told us that you still sin earlier in this thread. Since that's true, then it seems to me that your free will is still intact and operational

--David
p.s. - having free will means that we are able to choose what we desire the most at a given moment in time. When we choose to surrender our lives to God, we choose to do so freely, yes?

 

[Shrewd Manager]

I am talking about the encounter with Him that leads you to realise that He is God and Lord and accepts you as you are, and invites you to give over control of you life to Him and receive His presence within. This requires whole heartedness but not perfection or no one would be saved.

Hi there Carl!

Isn't God a little more insistent than the 'polite invitation'? I mean, we seek Him with an open heart and mind like a little child, confessing our ignorance, then at the propitious moment He comes in all power like a hammer that shatters rock nary breaking a bruised reed nor quenching a smoldering flax lol.

So the total submission comes in that moment, when the resurrection is so plainly and undeniably true, knock me down with a feather...heart changed, scales fallen from eyes and we're done born again, halleluja and praise the Lord.

 

[Tolworth John]

The unconverted person does not have free will. He is a slave to sin and cannot choose anything else other than those actions that have a selfish motive. He will even break the law of the land and do criminal acts if he thinks it is in his best interests to do so.

But when a person becomes converted to Christ, he is set free to choose to follow the paths of righteousness and has been see free from the power of sin. He can choose not to do a selfish, sinful act, and can choose to do those things that reflect the fruit of the Spirit.

The apostle Paul does not agree with you. He writes in Romans about the 'Evil' he does not want to do he does!

We have be set free, but the habit of sinning is still there and as Paul tells us resisted.

We are not yet perfect, we are still sinners.

 

[sdowney717]

The unconverted person does not have free will. He is a slave to sin and cannot choose anything else other than those actions that have a selfish motive. He will even break the law of the land and do criminal acts if he thinks it is in his best interests to do so.

But when a person becomes converted to Christ, he is set free to choose to follow the paths of righteousness and has been see free from the power of sin. He can choose not to do a selfish, sinful act, and can choose to do those things that reflect the fruit of the Spirit.

Yes free in a sense, free from sin, free to worship and love God, but we have actually become slaves of God and slaves of righteousness.

Romans 6 teaches us we are slaves of another, either sin leading to death, or righteousness leading to life.

18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness [f]for holiness.

20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit [g]to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the [h]gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Yes free in a sense, free from sin, free to worship and love God, but we have actually become slaves of God and slaves of righteousness.

Romans 6 teaches us we are slaves of another, either sin leading to death, or righteousness leading to life.

18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness [f]for holiness.

20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit [g]to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the [h]gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus

Very true. The slavery to sin is something in which the sinner has no choice; but the converted believer is able to choose to become a slave to righteousness under the Lordship of Christ.

Unbelievers have sin imposed on them through that dictator the devil, because they are in his kingdom of darkness, and so even if they want to be free, they cannot choose freedom from sin. It takes the miracle working power of the Holy Spirit to break into that person's heart and mind to cause them to believe the gospel, seek God with all their heart, and then give them the saving faith to move out of the kingdom of darkness into the family of God where he is able to choose the Lordship of Christ for himself. "They shall be willing in the day of Thy power" (Psalm 110:3).

 

[RDKirk]

First off we need to define free will.

Jesus has placed us on earth subject to physical laws that we cant break so in that sense we are not given absolute free will in the first place.

Total surrender to Him is a condition to be met to be born again.

This gives Him permission to exercise total control of our lives as He wills.

How does that sound so far???

What difference does it actually make?

If the answer is yes, are you going to choose hell instead?

 

[Carl Emerson]

It matters a lot... It gives Him control of your life for your own good. It prevents you from straying from His will to the extent of threatening your salvation.

 

[FreeinChrist]

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This thread was moved from Covenant Theology to General Theology.
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[mama2one]

In my OP I made it clear that there is no such thing as absolute 'free will'.

reminds me of a question one of my nieces asked when young:
are we all puppets and God is playing with us?



are there Bible verses specifically about free will?

 

[Carl Emerson]

Yes, take for example the verse "without a vision the people perish" The Hebrew means 'unrestrained' (the same root word for fence) so in the scheme of things God keeps us within boundaries for our own good.

 

[1213]

First off we need to define free will.

Jesus has placed us on earth subject to physical laws that we cant break so in that sense we are not given absolute free will in the first place....

..This gives Him permission to exercise total control of our lives as He wills...

Free will doesn’t mean you can do anything. It means you can want anything freely. And being born again doesn’t take free will away. In that case it can be that person has the same will as God, because he wants that freely.

 

[St_Worm2]

...reminds me of a question one of my nieces asked when young: are we all puppets and God is playing with us?...are there Bible verses specifically about free will?

Hi Christine, here are a couple of passages that come immediately to mind:

Genesis 3
3 From the fruit of the tree which is in the middle of the garden, God said, ‘You shall not eat from it or touch it, or you will die.’ ”
4 The serpent said to the woman, “You surely will not die!
5 “For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”
6 When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was desirable to make one wise, she took from its fruit and ate; and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate.

Joshua 24
14 Fear the LORD and serve Him in sincerity and truth; and put away the gods which your fathers served beyond the River and in Egypt, and serve the LORD.
15 If it is disagreeable in your sight to serve the LORD, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve: whether the gods which your fathers served which were beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
​

--David

 

[Carl Emerson]

By your definition I agree, however you are not describing 'absolute' fee will which would mean we could do anything.

You have however expressed it beautifully and that was exactly what I was trying to suggest.

We choose to be bound by what God knows is best for us.

This saves is from spiritual disaster.

 

[mama2one]

choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve

"choose"

it's our choice, so we DO have free will
God does not force us to choose

 

[St_Worm2]

"choose"

it's our choice, so we DO have free will
God does not force us to choose

Right (that's what I hoped the Scriptures I posited above would demonstrate ). Whenever we are able to choose what we desire the most at a given moment in time, our wills are free.

The problem for non-Christians isn't choosing and getting what they want, rather, their actual problem is with what they want, IOW, what it is that is their heart's true desire .. because it isn't God, according to the Bible .. e.g. Romans 3:10-12; Ephesians 2:1-3.

--David
p.s. - there is good news for all who will be His however

Ezekiel 36
26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances.​