Do you surrender your free will when you are Born Again?

[Carl Emerson]

First off we need to define free will.

Jesus has placed us on earth subject to physical laws that we cant break so in that sense we are not given absolute free will in the first place.

Total surrender to Him is a condition to be met to be born again.

This gives Him permission to exercise total control of our lives as He wills.

How does that sound so far???

 

[Antoni]

First off we need to define free will.

Jesus has placed us on earth subject to physical laws that we cant break so in that sense we are not given absolute free will in the first place.

Total surrender to Him is a condition to be met to be born again.

This gives Him permission to exercise total control of our lives as He wills.

How does that sound so far???

Sure! Sounds good so far!

I would just add that we may break physical laws, but that requires God’s Grace. Miracles would fall under this category.

Also, He clearly has demonstrated that He does not want total control of our lives. That while He certainly can, that is not His will.

 

[~Zao~]

First off we need to define free will.

Jesus has placed us on earth subject to physical laws that we cant break so in that sense we are not given absolute free will in the first place.

Total surrender to Him is a condition to be met to be born again.

This gives Him permission to exercise total control of our lives as He wills.

How does that sound so far???

Like a miracle!

 

[SkyWriting]

First off we need to define free will.

Jesus has placed us on earth subject to physical laws that we cant break so in that sense we are not given absolute free will in the first place.

Total surrender to Him is a condition to be met to be born again.

This gives Him permission to exercise total control of our lives as He wills.

How does that sound so far???

He already has total control of every atom.
You are allowed to think you have control.

 

[Antoni]

He has total control and can hand over as much control as He wishes. In our case, He has handed over just enough control so that we can freely choose him and so that we cannot blame Him as being unjust or unmerciful when we are judged on judgment day.

 

[Greengardener]

Hi Carl!

You are saying things I've heard in churches for years, but I'm still left with the question:
Why would God want total control over us? He didn't in the garden with the first people. Isn't there something higher that He wants in our relationship with Him?

 

[St_Worm2]

First off we need to define free will.

Jesus has placed us on earth subject to physical laws that we cant break so in that sense we are not given absolute free will in the first place.

Total surrender to Him is a condition to be met to be born again.

This gives Him permission to exercise total control of our lives as He wills.

How does that sound so far???

Hi Brother, I believe that the definition of free will is, "the ability to freely choose whatever we desire the most at a given moment in time".

That said, when have any of us ever "totally" surrendered the reins of our life to Him? Would not our sanctification be complete if we were able to do so?

Finally, if there are "conditions" that must be met by us before God is able to save us, why does the Bible tell us that we are saved by grace (by His UN-merited favor)?

Thanks!

--David

 

[Antoni]

Hi Brother, I believe that the definition of free will is, "the ability to freely choose whatever we desire the most at a given moment in time".

That said, when have any of us ever "totally" surrendered the reins of our life to Him? Would not our sanctification be complete if we were able to do so?

Along these same lines, if there are "conditions" that must be met by us before God is able to save us, why does the Bible tell us that we are saved by grace (by His UN-merited favor)?

Thanks!

--David

Your definition of grace as being ‘His UN-merited favor’ seems incomplete.

 

[Tolworth John]

First off we need to define free will.

Jesus has placed us on earth subject to physical laws that we cant break so in that sense we are not given absolute free will in the first place.

Total surrender to Him is a condition to be met to be born again.

This gives Him permission to exercise total control of our lives as He wills.

How does that sound so far???

In New Zealand you are surrounded by a multitude of laws that limit what you can do. You are not free, but bound by countless laws, regulations, edicts etc.
How are you able to claim that you are a free man?

As you know this is a strawman, but there is a large element of truth. Everyone surrenders certain aspects of freedom to complie with laws that benefit and protect society.

In the same way the Christian only is free because he willingly follows laws and restrictions that benefit him and society.
Freewill is only free while itis bound by Jesus's commands.

The alternative is the slavery to the devil that every nonchristian is under.

 

[PizzaAddict]

First off we need to define free will.

Jesus has placed us on earth subject to physical laws that we cant break so in that sense we are not given absolute free will in the first place.

Total surrender to Him is a condition to be met to be born again.

This gives Him permission to exercise total control of our lives as He wills.

How does that sound so far???

Not true , Peter walked on water and he wasn't even born again back then .
No you can be saved but reprobate , like that couple who lied about house they were called brothers in Christ yet died on spot to give witness of not lying .

 

[Tigger45]

Initially mankind was created in the image and likeness of God. Since the fall, caused by acting out of God’s will, mankind has lost God’s likeness resulting in a fallen will. Once a person is born from above, initated by God’s will, God works in and through the believer through faith that produces deification, Christification or theosis (take your pick) which manifests in the believer’s will becoming God’s will which by extension becomes their free will.

 

[Carl Emerson]

OK before we go off in a gazillion directions, I will be open about why I raised this topic.

I believe that to be truely born again, folks need to have come to a point of total surrender to Him in order to receive the fullness His presence within.

Once born again then of course a process of sanctification takes place, but at the instant of the rebirth encounter the individual must be holding nothing back.

When those who had done wonderful works in His name were told they were not known by Him, they never came to a place of total surrender to be totally known.

After rebirth His prerogative to exercise His will over our will may not be needed but for our sake it will if our intensions would result in fruitless suffering.

This includes actions that would threaten our relationship with Him.

How are we going so far ???

 

[Carl Emerson]

Sure! Sounds good so far!

I would just add that we may break physical laws, but that requires God’s Grace. Miracles would fall under this category.

Also, He clearly has demonstrated that He does not want total control of our lives. That while He certainly can, that is not His will.

Yes He prefers not to have to exercise that perorgative.

 

[Antoni]

OK before we go off in a gazillion directions, I will be open about why I raised this topic.

I believe that to be truely born again, folks need to have come to a point of total surrender to Him in order to receive the fullness His presence within.

Once born again then of course a process of sanctification takes place, but at the instant of the rebirth encounter the individual must be holding nothing back.

When those who had done wonderful works in His name were told they were not known by Him, they never came to a place of total surrender to be totally known.

After rebirth His prerogative to exercise His will over our will may not be needed but for our sake it will if our intensions would result in fruitless suffering.

This includes actions that would threaten our relationship with Him.

How are we going so far ???

It sounds like you are trying to formulate a rational case for ‘once saved, always saved’.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Like a miracle!

Yes but real miracles are subject to His will.

Those doing miracles who were not known by Him were not in His will. Like the Pharaohs Magicians.

 

[Carl Emerson]

He already has total control of every atom.
You are allowed to think you have control.

That is deep...

Well said.

 

[Carl Emerson]

He has total control and can hand over as much control as He wishes. In our case, He has handed over just enough control so that we can freely choose him and so that we cannot blame Him as being unjust or unmerciful when we are judged on judgment day.

Yes but those who freely choose are first drawn by the Father at His initiative - many are called and few are chosen as He wills.

 

[Carl Emerson]

He has total control and can hand over as much control as He wishes. In our case, He has handed over just enough control so that we can freely choose him and so that we cannot blame Him as being unjust or unmerciful when we are judged on judgment day.

Yes but those who freely choose are first drawn by the Father at His initiative - many are called and few are chosen as He wills.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Hi Carl!

You are saying things I've heard in churches for years, but I'm still left with the question:
Why would God want total control over us? He didn't in the garden with the first people. Isn't there something higher that He wants in our relationship with Him?

Of course, Adam never has His presence within. That is a relationship more profound that any before the New Covenant.

 

[~Zao~]

Yes but real miracles are subject to His will.

Those doing miracles who were not known by Him were not in His will. Like the Pharaohs Magicians.

First off we need to define free will.

Jesus has placed us on earth subject to physical laws that we cant break so in that sense we are not given absolute free will in the first place.

It would be classified as a miracle or an act of God to deem it otherwise.

Total surrender to Him is a condition to be met to be born again.

which is an act of God onto the one in obedience to His will that allows the Christian to comply with the HS. Romans 12:1-3

This gives Him permission to exercise total control of our lives as He wills.

How does that sound so far???

According to the human will that is in obedience to the human spirit in accordance to the Holy Spirit. Or it’s just flesh.