Do You Support Capital Punishment?

[FaithLikeARock]

If I was unjustly accused of murder, I would have no objections in doing whatever I had to do to escape.

If I actually was arrested for a murder I commted, I would accept my punishment. Getting caught is a failure I will not accept of myself.

So you thoroughly admit you have no faith in the system if you think you could escape.

And that you would, as your innocent self, go about "escaping" and breaking some serious laws in the process (laws that would put you back in jail no matter what), and yet you seem to think your guilty self would sit down and give it up - "Oh, welp, you caught me. Eh, I guess I'll sit back here" is nothing short of preposterous. Given the mindset of most criminals who convince themselves they haven't done anything wrong (or convince themselves wrong is right) it's almost offensive, but certainly shows off WHY capital punishment is wrong.

First and foremost, people who push for capital punishment don't understand how criminals work, or why crimes are committed. They are content to not care.

Secondly, if someone who truly needed the death penalty, someone who will not change and will continue to remain a danger no matter what methods are used, was put on death row, they could easily find a way around it. Not even literal escape - there's legal escape as well.

And lastly, from a Christian perspective, you shouldn't be killing at all. Period. No matter what the sanction. Don't give me the Leviticus nonsense because if that's the case you should be stoning your teenagers any time they mouth off and kicking your wife out every time she has her period. Christian perspective is don't kill. Period. There shouldn't even be a discussion here. Jesus never endorsed it, and in fact spoke against capital punishment.

 

[Tuddrussell]

Is that why in the USA crime has disappeared? Amnesty International has proven time and time again that Capital punishment does not lessen crime.

It lessens the crimes pepetrated by executed criminals for one. It lessens crime in that way.

 

[Tuddrussell]

So you thoroughly admit you have no faith in the system if you think you could escape.

I have more faith in my self than the system.

And that you would, as your innocent self, go about "escaping" and breaking some serious laws in the process (laws that would put you back in jail no matter what), and yet you seem to think your guilty self would sit down and give it up - "Oh, welp, you caught me. Eh, I guess I'll sit back here" is nothing short of preposterous. Given the mindset of most criminals who convince themselves they haven't done anything wrong (or convince themselves wrong is right) it's almost offensive, but certainly shows off WHY capital punishment is wrong.

If I do the crime, and get caught, what right have I not to do the time? I resign myself to my fate if caught, because gettign caught is unacceptable. If I was ever to commit a crime, I would do so only if I was certain I wouldn't get caught.

First and foremost, people who push for capital punishment don't understand how criminals work, or why crimes are committed. They are content to not care.

Yeah, there are no excuses only reasons.

Secondly, if someone who truly needed the death penalty, someone who will not change and will continue to remain a danger no matter what methods are used, was put on death row, they could easily find a way around it. Not even literal escape - there's legal escape as well.

It's not a perfect system, but no such thing exists. This system will remain in place until a better system takes its place, I have no problem with progress and would fully support a system that's proven to be more effective than what we have in place.

There's no use quabbling over morality when our collective time could be better spent actually doing something about it.

And lastly, from a Christian perspective, you shouldn't be killing at all. Period. No matter what the sanction. Don't give me the Leviticus nonsense because if that's the case you should be stoning your teenagers any time they mouth off and kicking your wife out every time she has her period. Christian perspective is don't kill. Period. There shouldn't even be a discussion here. Jesus never endorsed it, and in fact spoke against capital punishment.

And that's a lovely reason why Christians shouldn't kill, but says nothing about why non-Christians shouldn't.

 

[Notedstrangeperson]

And that's a lovely reason why Christians shouldn't kill, but says nothing about why non-Christians shouldn't.

Using that argument, an atheist could be given a free pass to be as immoral as he wanted. After all, there is no atheist commandment which forbids the killing of an innocent person.

But scientific investigation of crimes is considered a waste of time to most fundamentalist Christians and Muslims!

Not so - although it would be interesting to see whether atheists or christians are more likely to support the death penalty:

• One source looks at the official stance. The majority of churches are against capital punishment, while most of the others have no official stance. Judaism, atheism and the non-religious are all mixed.
• Another source looks at the history of the church - which is highly mixed. The early church was against it, but in later centuries accepted the death penalty. Today, as link above shows, most churches are now against it.
• A Gallup poll from the USA looked at various groups, including political preferences and religion (Catholic, Protestant and "no religious preference").
  • Conservatives / Republicans are more likely to support capital punishment than liberals / Democrats.
  • Christians are more likely to support the death penalty than non-Christians.
  • Christians who attend church often are less likely to support the death penalty than those who attend less often

I think somewhere inside I'm a secret freakonomic.

 

[Tuddrussell]

Using that argument, an atheist could be given a free pass to be as immoral as he wanted. After all, there is no atheist commandment which forbids the killing of an innocent person.

Yes, that is the point I was making. You understood it well, but have not addressed it.

 

[Notedstrangeperson]

Yes, that is the point I was making. You understood it well, but have not addressed it.

Which point was that?
Sorry, I'm too lazy to go back and look for it.

 

[Tuddrussell]

The point that you just made!

 

[Notedstrangeperson]

The point that you just made!

OK, are we doing riddles now?
"Thirty white horses on a red hill ..."

 

[Tuddrussell]

Using that argument, an atheist could be given a free pass to be as immoral as he wanted. After all, there is no atheist commandment which forbids the killing of an innocent person.

THIS POINT, RIGHT HERE!

 

[bricklayer]

I am left to believe that there are only two types of people in this world:
those who are examples of God's grace with the objects of His mercy and
those who are examples of God's patience with the objects of His wrath.

I like the US system, it combines capital punishment with great patience.

Convicted and sentenced and regarded as as good as dead, but handled with the humility that the awareness of fallibility begets.

Sentence them to death, then let 'em rot.

 

[Notedstrangeperson]

Using that argument, an atheist could be given a free pass to be as immoral as he wanted. After all, there is no atheist commandment which forbids the killing of an innocent person.

THIS POINT, RIGHT HERE!

Chill out mate.

So what specifically did I fail to address? Surely if an atheist thinks "The laws of the Bible don't apply to me" and uses this as an excuse to kill whoever he feels like - that would be a bad thing, correct?

 

[Jro]

I think capital punishment is barbaric. It costs more to execute someone than it does to keep them in prison for life, and despite the extensive appeals process we still wind up executing innocents. So it's both impractical and imprecise. One would think that we'd have moved away from it by now.

 

[solarwave]

Recently there has been talk in the UK about bringing back the death penalty.

It has? Guess I missed that on.

What's your stance?

In my opinion rehabilitation and community service should be used with most people. Prison should be for the most serious and dangerous offenders, but still with rehabilitation in mind. Any sort of criminal culture in prison should be not be tolerated in the slightest. If someone is so dangerous that the fact he is alive (eg: Osama Bin Laden) could cause harm to people then only then should capital punishment be considered.

The UK should stick to the EU which is against capital punishment.

 

[Tuddrussell]

Chill out mate.

So what specifically did I fail to address? Surely if an atheist thinks "The laws of the Bible don't apply to me" and uses this as an excuse to kill whoever he feels like - that would be a bad thing, correct?

So, do we agree that it's wrong because it's wrong and not because God says it's wrong? That is an important distinction to make, because I don't care what God thinks. I don't owe him anything.

 

[Jro]

So, do we agree that it's wrong because it's wrong and not because God says it's wrong? That is an important distinction to make, because I don't care what God thinks. I don't owe him anything.

I found a dollar today. I owe him that. If you've found any money recently, it might be his.

 

[Tuddrussell]

That belongs to uncle sam, he justs let's you borrow it.

 

[Notedstrangeperson]

So, do we agree that it's wrong because it's wrong and not because God says it's wrong? That is an important distinction to make, because I don't care what God thinks. I don't owe him anything.

Nope. What gave you that idea?

Beside, I don't want to go off-topic, since we already have a thread asking Does morality exist without God?

 

[Tuddrussell]

Then it is perfectly fine for me to kill as many people as I want, and any kind of people I want. I'm glad we cleared that up.

 

[Notedstrangeperson]

The it is perfectly fine for me to kill as many people as I want, and any kind of people I want. I'm glad we cleared that up.

There's no need for the sarcasm. There's already a debate over christian versus atheist morality.
Interestingly I haven't noticed much distinction between atheisst and christians in support of the death penalty on this particular thread.

BTW I just noticed this:

It's better for one innocent man to die from being too careful, than a thousand innocent people to be killed by being too lax.

Not really a phrase you want to hear from a self-labelled "Humanist".

--------------------------
Back on topic:

For those who support the death penalty, do you think the method of death matters? Are public executions more effective than private ones, for example?

 

[Jro]

Then it is perfectly fine for me to kill as many people as I want, and any kind of people I want. I'm glad we cleared that up.

Depends on whose paradigm you accept. From her point of view, god exists and says that's a faux pas, whether you believe in the big lug or not.