Do You Support Capital Punishment?

Do you support capital punishment?

  • Yes

  • No

  • Unsure


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Andy Broadley

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So Jack the Ripper completed his sentence, was released and bought the house next door. Do you take comfort in your wife's safety?
Well first of all, they never caught Jack the Ripper so thats a moot point in this discussion.

Secondly, all his victims were prostitutes so unless my wife is not telling me something...

Thirdly, life should mean life. Society can be protected without resorting to killing people
 
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needinganame

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Well first of all, they never caught Jack the Ripper so thats a moot point in this discussion.

Secondly, all his victims were prostitutes so unless my wife is not telling me something...

Thirdly, life should mean life. Society can be protected without resorting to killing people
You are avoiding the issue
 
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Andy Broadley

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You are avoiding the issue
Not at all

I firmly believe society shold be protected. A life sentence should mean just that if the person poses a risk to society.

The issue here is should a person be killed by the state? The answer is no. They can be punished, and society protected, WITHOUT state execution
 
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yasic

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I see nothing wrong with it and I support capital punishment.

However I would like to adapt a more texan style: Limit any convicts to a maximum of three appeals and limit the tax funds available for the appeals. Make it so that unless a judge mandates that there might be a genuine reason to wait, death row should never take many years so executions will come swiftly after sentencing.
 
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Andy Broadley

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Very carefully. (I can't talk about it here, the man might be listening.)
I don't have access to the figures for this but maybe yu can tell me.

How many people have escaped death row in the last, say, ten years?
 
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Andy Broadley

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I see nothing wrong with it and I support capital punishment.

However I would like to adapt a more texan style: Limit any convicts to a maximum of three appeals and limit the tax funds available for the appeals. Make it so that unless a judge mandates that there might be a genuine reason to wait, death row should never take many years so executions will come swiftly after sentencing.
And if the person is later proven to be innocent?

What then?
 
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needinganame

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Not at all

I firmly believe society shold be protected. A life sentence should mean just that if the person poses a risk to society.

The issue here is should a person be killed by the state? The answer is no. They can be punished, and society protected, WITHOUT state execution

In a perfect world, I guess. But it isn't a realistic opinion.
The reality is more criminals are freed to commit again (and most do), than the innocent men who get convicted.
I'll compromise.
Promise me a convict never escapes nor gets paroled in your world and I'll promise you an innocent man is never wrongly hanged in mine.
 
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yasic

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And if the person is later proven to be innocent?

What then?

Then we recognize that we made a mistake in this situation, whilst understanding that it is still a loss that was needed to keep society running.


Let me flip the question around at you: Lets say someone is sentenced to life in prison, and after 50 long years in jail they die of natural causes. It is revealed only 1 years later that they have been innocent the whole time. We just caused an innocent person to stay locked up for half a century without a good reason!

Would you say that is a good reason to disallow life sentences? Why or why not?
 
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Tuddrussell

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In a perfect world, I guess. But it isn't a realistic opinion.
The reality is more criminals are freed to commit again (and most do), than the innocent men who get convicted.
I'll compromise.
Promise me a murderer never escapes nor gets paroled in your world and I'll promise you an innocent man is never wrongly hanged in mine.

^How come it sounds so much more reasonable when he says it... Even to me?
 
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chris4243

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It does not say thou shall not kill unless sanctioned by a court in a country that legalises murder when it suits them

It just says NO. You will not kill. No conditions attatched

Oh, but maybe that was just an unenforced suggest. Does the Bible mention a penalty for murder?
 
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alton3

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Several years ago, in 2009, the US Supreme Court ruled that convicted inmates do not have a right to DNA testing.

Prisoners do not have a constitutional right to DNA testing after their conviction, the Supreme Court ruled yesterday, even though the technology provides an "unparalleled ability both to exonerate the wrongly convicted and to identify the guilty."
However, they have apparently reversed this ruling as of March, 2011:

DNA evidence promises to become an even bigger part of criminal cases following a Supreme Court ruling on Monday that gives prisoners the right to file post-conviction civil suits seeing access to DNA evidence that was not tested at the time of trials.
That being said, one of two severe objections to capital punishment is ameliorated somewhat (that is to say not only the all-too-real executions of people for crimes they did not commit but also what seems like express state indifference to this fact); we are left with the tripartite question of deterrence versus rehabilitation vs punishment.

The death penalty doesn't appear to have an appreciable deterrence effect. The knowledge that one could be executed for a capital crime does not, by itself, stop those who are intent on committing one. Further, cold murderers are less likely than other offenders to be rehabilitated. Those that are not convicted of capital crimes are "punished" with life sentences but, with no hope of release, they have nothing at all to lose.

And what of the families and friends of the victims? Is locking someone up for life really "justice" if it does not provoke the aggressor(s) to regret and repentance, merely just providing them a different environment in which to sink to more depraved depths?

It would appear neither deterrence, nor rehabilitation, nor so-called punitive action get the job done. The first two do not work on a significant level and the third does not provide justice for the victim on an appreciable level.

So what's the alternative? I'm reminded of an HL Mencken quote:
Hanging one scoundrel, it appears, does not deter the next. Well, what of it? The first one at least is disposed of.
Unfortunately, for the benefit of our souls, we must ultimately cling to an unrealistic belief that "the system" balances things out, lest we submit to cynicism and praise the system as a human garbage disposal.

That being said, the death penalty can be opposed on moral and ethical grounds but can just as well be supported by the very same ethical arguments that are used to condemn it. Likewise with philosophy, practicality, reasoning, empirical evidence, pragmatism, and practicality.

When all these issues are considered, the issue is often reduced to how one feels about the amount of money spent on housing violent offenders for life. But executing someone isn't "cheap" - appeals and re-trials cost time and money. In this day in age it's not uncommon for a convicted murderer to spend upwards of 15 years awaiting execution.

If we're going to maintain capital punishment we must streamline it to accomodate fair trials, DNA evidence, appeals, etc. without drawing the process out for decades. This means we must expand the concept of habeas corpus itself to include not only the right to a speedy trial but to a speedy judgement - for the sake of both the condemned and the people (for it has been shown that the long wait on death row induces a kind of reflective mortality related psychosis which could be considered cruel and unusual and therefore unconstitutional).

Capital punishment, as it currently exists, is thoroughly unacceptable.
 
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Eudaimonist

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I will grant that executions aren't murder, and they may even be "just", but I oppose capital punishment. I don't like seeing the government have the power of life and death over people. It puts government in a kind of godlike role in society. I don't think this would be a good thing in the long run.

Besides, you can undo a life sentence if new evidence comes to light, but you can't undo an execution.

So, I side with Gandalf.

Many that live deserve death. Some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them, Frodo? Do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. Even the very wise cannot see all ends.

You're not against Gandalf, are you? ;)


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
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mzungu

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It is never a punishment, it is a solution.

I fully support it. Sometimes death is the right thing. (Sometimes it is the only thing...)
Is that why in the USA crime has disappeared? Amnesty International has proven time and time again that Capital punishment does not lessen crime.

Instead of "Leg hurts? Then cut of leg" "Try; Why does leg hurt and what can we do to cure it or prevent it from hurting again". But scientific investigation of crimes is considered a waste of time to most fundamentalist Christians and Muslims!

Fundamentalist law: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yp_l5ntikaU
 
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