Do you stop being a Jew when you convert to Orthodoxy?

Resha Caner

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Judaism covers a large spectrum of views just like Christianity. But, one of the major phases in the shift from Judaism as a covenant with God to Judaism as a culture came with Zionism in the 19th century - one of the many nationalist movements of the time.

Separating culture from its geographic, ethnic, and religious roots was a large part of many of the nationalist movements of that time, and was an outgrowth of those who tried to imitate the U.S. It was a very self-conscious thing, and being self-conscious of one's culture has both pros & cons.

I'm sometimes concerned that American Christianity has become such a thing. What should we call it? Columbianism?
 
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Toolbelt

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I think it depends on how you interpret being Jewish.

I know a Jewish doctor who told me that being Jewish means you follow the Jewish faith, and that's it, so in this case I would say yes.

I have known others who have said being Jewish is a racial designation, and that Jews are always Jewish, just like I will always be White. In this view I would say no.

Others consider being Jewish, following the religion, accepting that Jews are a separate race, and a nationality = Israeli. In this case I would say maybe.

It is as difficult to get a straight answer about this as it is to get a straight answer about the role of the Pope in christianity

I think in some cases. Jews think themselves as descendants of Abraham. The first covenant was between God and Abraham. So a blood line leading back to him is part of being a Jew.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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I think in some cases. Jews think themselves as descendants of Abraham. The first covenant was between God and Abraham. So a blood line leading back to him is part of being a Jew.

Abraham, Isaac and Jacob
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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Even Jews. Sabbatai Zevi, a Messiah imposter, converted to Islam when the Ottoman threatened him.

Yes, that is what I said...ANYONE can become a Muslim or a Christian, they are not based on ethnicity.
 
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Protomartyr Alban

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What is a Jew? Many tend to view it in the narrow scope of being an ethnicity - which is more accurately a "Hebrew". Virtually all of these interbred, we no longer know who is from what tribe, etc. That is why you get Ethiopian Jews, Mizrahi Jews, Ashkenazi Jews, Sephardic Jews, etc. You have a black man and a ginger man both claiming to be the same ethnicity - and while they may have the same ancestry if you go far back enough - as we all do even further back - this is not the modern definition of ethnicity. According to modern Jewish law, your mother must be Jewish for you to be Jewish, which is also not how genes or ethnicity works, this is simply a religious law they have invented and has nothing to do with blood.

People also tend to think that being a Jew was exclusive to those descended from Jacob, but this is also not the case, as the Lord notes the Pharisee's made a conscious effort to travel and proselytise; people converted to Judaism (Matthew 23:15).

So, what is a Jew? We can speak on a few levels - the misconception of it being an ethnicity (which is basically nonsense and which we will ignore, because even if it were true then obviously you would not cease to be Jewish), being in the false Jewish religion (Orthodox Rabbinical Judaism is descended from the Pharisee sect of Judaism - you can see from their numberless, petty rules that they have only grown worse), or being a Jew inwardly, which the modern Jews are not (“For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God”, Romans 2:28-29), which is Orthodox Christianity rightly practised.

The Lord Jesus and St John the Baptist told the Pharisaic Jews that they were not sons of Abraham, but of the devil, because they practise the devils works and do not have Abraham's faith, and that they should not claim to have Abraham as their father because God can raise up stones to be children of Abraham. The Jews murdering the God that saved them meant that the religion that was given to them first went out to the gentiles.
The Apostles identified as Jews only insofar as they came from the Jewish religion and in those days you could really trace your lineage, etc, it was a time of transference. The Apostles never distinguished between the Jewish and gentile Christians, and "the circumcision" party is spoken of negatively. St Paul deals with lots of the issues Judaisers brought on in his epistle to the Galatians and elsewhere, we don't need to keep the Jewish dietary laws and circumcision, their man made rules of the Sabbath, etc.

So, does one cease to be Jewish when he becomes a Christian? In terms of religion, he ceases to be of the false "Judaism", and becomes a true, inward Jew; in terms of cultural things, he would drop Jewish celebrations that rejoice in the shadow instead of the caster of that shadow as if He never came; in terms of ethnicity, if there were such a thing as Jewish ethnicity, of course not. The Old Covenant is dead, the New Covenant is living.
 
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robinriley

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By "Jew", I mean the culture. I know I don't stop being Ecuadorian when I become Orthodox or you don't stop being American, etc. But I feel one stops being a Jew when converting, even there is an Arab Orthodox Culture.

(Robin)
Does your nom de plume mean something like ..."the eternal Yehudean"

(ArmyMatt)
this is the St Basil's forum, where folks ask about Orthodox Christian theology.

(Der Ewige Katechumene)
I know I don't stop being Ecuadorian when I become Orthodox ...

(ArmyMatt)
this is the St Basil's forum, where folks ask about Orthodox Christian theology.

(Der Ewige Katechumene)
But I feel one stops being a Jew when converting,

(ArmyMatt)
St Basil's has rules, please follow them. this is NOT what the Orthodox believe.
 
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Not David

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(Robin)
Does your nom de plume mean something like ..."the eternal Yehudean"

(ArmyMatt)
this is the St Basil's forum, where folks ask about Orthodox Christian theology.

(Der Ewige Katechumene)
I know I don't stop being Ecuadorian when I become Orthodox ...

(ArmyMatt)
this is the St Basil's forum, where folks ask about Orthodox Christian theology.

(Der Ewige Katechumene)
But I feel one stops being a Jew when converting,

(ArmyMatt)
St Basil's has rules, please follow them. this is NOT what the Orthodox believe.
It means “The Eternal Catechumen”.

And why are you repeating mine and Father Matt’s conversation?
 
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ArmyMatt

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(Robin)
Does your nom de plume mean something like ..."the eternal Yehudean"

(ArmyMatt)
this is the St Basil's forum, where folks ask about Orthodox Christian theology.

(Der Ewige Katechumene)
I know I don't stop being Ecuadorian when I become Orthodox ...

(ArmyMatt)
this is the St Basil's forum, where folks ask about Orthodox Christian theology.

(Der Ewige Katechumene)
But I feel one stops being a Jew when converting,

(ArmyMatt)
St Basil's has rules, please follow them. this is NOT what the Orthodox believe.

what?
 
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E.C.

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By "Jew", I mean the culture. I know I don't stop being Ecuadorian when I become Orthodox or you don't stop being American, etc. But I feel one stops being a Jew when converting, even there is an Arab Orthodox Culture.
Lucky for you, I do happy to know a Jewish convert to Orthodoxy in the real world :)


So, this guy I know became Orthodox Christian when he met his wife who was Greek Orthodox herself. He identifies firstly as an Orthodox Christian and secondly as Jewish in terms of ethnicity (born in Israel to Tunisian Jews who were kicked out by Muslim Arabs in 1948). In the eyes of the State of Israel he's Jewish, in the eyes of the Chief Rabbinate of Israel he's not, in the eyes of most Americans he would be, and some of us would even call him a Jewish Christian.
I don't think he celebrates the religiously Jewish holidays anymore; like Passover, Yom Kippur, etc. However, I believe that he only really observes some holidays, like Hanukah, the way most Americans celebrate Christmas: if he's in Israel visiting relatives during that time of year he'll give gifts all day long, but not go to synagogue with them.

Beyond that, I think he pretty much dived into Orthodoxy once he accepted Christ as being the Messiah and therefore Orthodox Christianity being the fulfillment of Judaism. He does encourage his kids to be educated, he and his family have a wicked sense of humor, and they have very passionate arguments; all of which are common Jewish traits. No, he doesn't have a kippah or payot.


Jewish people are an ethnoreligious group similar to Sikhs, Druze, and, Yazidis. For the most part, they have a shared ethnicity somewhere and they are of the same religion and typically stay married within it. I'm not a geneticist, but whatever that common gene amongst Jewish people is, someone who's a Jewish convert to Orthodoxy is still going to have that no matter what.
 
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