Do you recognize the word of God when you read it...

[TrevorKamal]

Muhammad only has authority with the Muslims, not with me.

Right, because you don't believe Muhammad was a Messenger of God but you understand the point I was making, right? IF (hypothetically from your viewpoint) Muhammad was sent by God then He would have the authority to clarify scriptures.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Right, because you don't believe Muhammad was a Messenger of God but you understand the point I was making, right? IF (hypothetically from your viewpoint) Muhammad was sent by God then He would have the authority to clarify scriptures.

The pope claims to have the same authority with the Bible and why I am not Catholic but still a Christian in Christ.

I do not believe nor will I ever believe Muhammad was made a prophet of Allah/God by the angel Gabriel. and that is my own humble view.

I also view the Bible "Time of the End/End of the Age" differently than most christians and if the Koran would like to harmonize their endtime view with the Bible, I would be glad to help them out. Peace..


Matthew 21:43 "Therefore I say to you, the Kingdom of God will be taken from you [Judah] and given to a nation [Israel of God] bearing the fruits of it.

Reve 12:7 And there came war in the heaven; Michael [Daniel 12] and his messengers did war against the dragon, and the dragon did war, and his messengers, 8 and they did not prevail, nor was their place [topoV <5117>] found any more in the Heaven;

 

[9Harmony]

So says the Bahai's. I just lost all respect for your religion's interpretation of our Bible after that statement though I still respect you as a person. Peace.

Hi LLJ,

i'm sorry if i offended you.

but please understand unless i specifically quote from the Baha'i Writings, anything i say is simply my own thoughts.

you highlighted different aspects than i was trying to illustrate.

look at it this way instead...

as for changing or rejecting the Bible, correct, man does not have the authority to change the words of the Bible, but if Mohammed is a prophet of God, then He does have that authority, and He then is not changing but rather clarifying what men have distorted/obscured/misinterpreted.

'IF' is the key to this statement. IF Mohammed is a prophet of God, (and i know that's a big IF in your mind, but for the sake of discussion...let's say He is) then wouldn't you agree that the rest of the statement stands to reason.

 

[TrevorKamal]

We can then see the truthfulness of their scripture in the light of the Quran and the Bible. Wouldn't that be the most appropriate approach?

Where are your scriptures?

These are where I get most of mine for each religious text:

Christianity

Islam

Baha'i Faith

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

as for changing or rejecting the Bible, correct, man does not have the authority to change the words of the Bible, but if Mohammed is a prophet of God, then He does have that authority, and He then is not changing but rather clarifying what men have distorted/obscured/misinterpreted.

'IF' is the key to this statement. IF Mohammed is a prophet of God, (and i know that's a big IF in your mind, but for the sake of discussion...let's say He is) then wouldn't you agree that the rest of the statement stands to reason.

Thanks for the reply. In that case, I would look at him as no different than the Catholic Pope and their heriarchy , and sorry if I sound a little abrupt at times, but just as the Muslims have a zeal for their Koran and prophet, so do I have a zeal for the Bible and the Lord Jesus.

Reve 1: 7 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who "pierced/exekenthsan <1574> (5656)" Him. And all the Tribes of the Land will mourn/wail because of Him. Even so, Amen.

 

[9Harmony]

Thanks for the reply. In that case, I would look at him as no different than the Catholic Pope and their heriarchy , and sorry if I sound a little abrupt at times, but just as the Muslims have a zeal for their Koran and prophet, so do I have a zeal for the Bible and the Lord Jesus.

Yes, i recognize your zeal.

i think we're still having a disconnect here though...(imho) the Pope is just a man, though he claims authority for the Catholic Church. The Pope does not claim to be a prophet, prophets are a completely different class.

Let's look at it this way...let's forget about Mohammed for the moment.

As a Christian, you accept Moses and Jesus as prophets, correct? Jesus, as a prophet, you will agree, was given authority by God to clarify and elaborate on His Word, i.e. the teachings that Moses had related during His dispensation. Why? because men, perhaps well meaning men, had distorted and misinterpreted the underlying meanings of His scripture. Christ came to correct those misconceptions. and re-reveal the truth that had been obscured throughout the centuries.

With me so far?

But, not only did Jesus simply clarify the teachings that were revealed before, He also brought new teachings, including some new laws. But not through His own Will, but because God had ordained that it was time to expand societies understanding. what was previously suited for society was no longer sufficient if society was to make progress.

Yet, most followers of Moses, refused to believe this, and did not accept the claims Jesus put forth. They believed they already had the complete law of God, and had no need of additional enlightenment. There was no need to listen to this man who made these claims because they had all they needed. How dare this man claim to speak on the authority of God. Plus the things He spoke of sounded so foreign, so against what they thought they knew.

Sound familiar?

The few who did accept Him displayed an enormous amount of courage, a tremendous leap of faith, yet look at the civilization that exists today because of those few brave individuals.

(imho) This is one proof of a divinely inspired religious group.


so then back to the original point. Hypothetically speaking of course ...IF Mohammed is a prophet, ordained by God, wouldn't you agree that God would have also given him the authority to speak for Him, just like He did for Christ?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Yet, most followers of Moses, refused to believe this, and did not accept the claims Jesus put forth. They believed they already had the complete law of God, and had no need of additional enlightenment. There was no need to listen to this man who made these claims because they had all they needed. How dare this man claim to speak on the authority of God. Plus the things He spoke of sounded so foreign, so against what they thought they knew.

Sound familiar?

That is true. I put myself back in those times of the OT/OC and NT/NC, sometimes as the prophet, sometimes as the people who are being spoken to.
Do you ever wonder why the Muslims do not read or believe revelation but you and I do? That book is the Final Revealtion/Consummation of the Heaven and Earth, yet, they do not read it.

I suppose that baffles me somewhat though my view of it is quite different than mainstream christianity's view so in some ways, I can see why the Muslims would tend to shy away from it. Thoughts?

Ezekiel 2:1 And He said to me, "Son of man, stand on your feet, and I will speak to you." 2 Then the Spirit entered me when He spoke to me, and set me on my feet; and I heard Him who spoke to me. 3 And He said to me: "Son of man, I am sending you to the children of Israel, to a rebellious nation that has rebelled against Me; they and their fathers have transgressed against Me to this very day.

reve 7:4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundred [and] forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel [were] sealed:

 

[9Harmony]

Do you ever wonder why the Muslims do not read or believe revelation but you and I do? That book is the Final Revealtion/Consummation of the Heaven and Earth, yet, they do not read it.

I suppose that baffles me somewhat though my view of it is quite different than mainstream christianity's view so in some ways, I can see why the Muslims would tend to shy away from it. Thoughts?

(imho) Because Muslims believe that the Quran is the Final Revelation from God, and they wonder why others do not read it. They wonder why people would ignore more recent guidance from God, for guidance that was given over 1000 years before.

you still didn't answer my question...

Hypothetically speaking of course ...IF Mohammed is a prophet, ordained by God, wouldn't you agree that God would have also given him the authority to speak for Him, just like He did for Christ and Moses?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

(imho) Because Muslims believe that the Quran is the Final Revelation from God, and they wonder why others do not read it. They wonder why people would ignore more recent guidance from God, for guidance that was given over 1000 years before.

you still didn't answer my question...

Hypothetically speaking of course ...IF Mohammed is a prophet, ordained by God, wouldn't you agree that God would have also given him the authority to speak for Him, just like He did for Christ and Moses?

If Muhammad was given authority from God, then he would also have revealed the book of Revelation/Final Consummation to them and Christ as the Final Prophet/Redeemer of Mankind.

Exodus 7:1 So Y@hovah said to Moses: "See, I have made you [as] 'elohiym to Pharaoh, and Aaron your brother shall be your prophet.

Matthew 26:57 And those who had laid hold of Jesus led [Him] away to Caiaphas the high priest, where the scribes and the elders were assembled.

[ISA] Revelation 1:1 [a/an] Revealing/Un-veiling[ apo-kaluyiV] Jesus Christ, which gives/edwken <1325> to him, the God, to show to the bondservants of Him, which[P] is behooving to be becoming in swiftness; and he signifies sending out* thru/by the messenger of him, to the bondservant of him, John.

 

[9Harmony]

If Muhammad was given authority from God, then he would also have revealed the book of Revelation/Final Consummation to them and Christ as the Final Prophet/Redeemer of Mankind.

As i'm sure you're aware, Muslims also await the return of Christ.

 

[ERice2nd]

well, at least we can all agree on something, The return of Christ. He will come and this mess we made of the world will finally be cleaned up

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

[ISA] Revelation 1:1 [a/an] Revealing/Un-veiling[ apo-kaluyiV] Jesus Christ, which gives/edwken <1325> to him, the God, to show to the bondservants of Him, which is behooving to be becoming in swiftness; and he signifies sending out* thru/by the messenger of him, to the bondservant of him, John.

As i'm sure you're aware, Muslims also await the return of Christ.

well, at least we can all agree on something, The return of Christ. He will come and this mess we made of the world will finally be cleaned up

I am not awaiting on the one the Muslims are waiting on though. but rather the One the OC Jews were waiting on.

Ezekiel and Revelation fit together like "white on rice".

Matt 23:33 `Serpents! brood of vipers! how may ye escape from the judgment of the gehenna? .........Matthew 24:1 And having gone forth, Jesus departed from the temple, and his disciples came near to show him the buildings of the temple,

Reve 19:11 And I saw the heaven having been opened, and lo, a white horse, and He who is sitting upon it is called Faithful and True, and in Righteousness doth He judge and war, 12 and his eyes [are] as a flame of fire,

Ezkeiel 39:12 "For seven months the house of Israel will be burying Them, in order to Cleanse/purify the land. 13 "Indeed all the people of the land will be burying, and they will gain renown for it on the day that I am glorified," says the 'Adonay Y@hovih.

 

[9Harmony]

I am not awaiting on the one the Muslims are waiting on though. but rather the One the OC Jews were waiting on.

so, how will you ever know which is which?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus
I am not awaiting on the one the Muslims are waiting on though. but rather the One the OC Jews/Israel were waiting on.

so, how will you ever know which is which?

Paul explained it pretty well. Ooops!!! I forgot, the Muslims don't read Paul.

2 corin 3:12 Therefore, since we have such hope, we use great boldness of speech -- 13 unlike Moses, [who] put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what was passing away. 14 But their minds were dull. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the [veil] is taken away in Christ. 15 But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart. 16 Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. [kalumma <2571>]

[ISA] Revelation 1:1 [a/an] Revealing/Un-veiling[ apo-kaluyiV] Jesus Christ, which gives/edwken <1325> to him, the God, to show to the bondservants of him, which[P] is behooving to be becoming in swiftness;

 

[9Harmony]

Paul explained it pretty well. Ooops!!! I forgot, the Muslims don't read Paul.

you're missing my point...

you said...I am not awaiting on the one the Muslims are waiting on though. but rather the One the OC Jews were waiting on.

in effect you're saying that there will be 2...so i wondered how you will know if you're following the right one.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Paul explained it pretty well. Ooops!!! I forgot, the Muslims don't read Paul.

you're missing my point...

you said...I am not awaiting on the one the Muslims are waiting on though. but rather the One the OC Jews were waiting on.
in effect you're saying that there will be 2...so i wondered how you will know if you're following the right one.

Nope there is only one Day of God/Day of the Lord in the Bible. This one right here. Ooops! The Muslims don't read Peter either!
http://www.christianforums.com/t3920177-why-the-father-is-greater-than-jesus.html

2 Peter 3:12 looking for and hastening the coming of the Day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat?

1 Peter 4:7 But the End of ALL things is nigh at hand; therefore be sober-minded and watchful in your prayers.

zeph 1:2 " I will utterly consume everything From the face of the land," Says the LORD; 3 "I will consume man and beast; I will consume the birds of the heavens, The fish of the sea, And the stumbling blocks along with the wicked. ..............17 "I will bring distress upon men, And they shall walk like blind men, Because they have sinned against the LORD; Their blood shall be poured out like dust, And their flesh like dung."

 

[TricksterWolf]

...or are you just following the religion you were born into without question and blocking all others from any real investigation? The reason I ask this is because I feel at odds with most of the civilized world in this regard. When I read the New Testament, or the Qur'an, or the Old Testament, or the Gita, or the writings of Baha'u'llah they are all equally impressive and i can't help but come to the conclusion that these came from something higher than normal men are capable of. If I were to believe in one only and shun all the others then I might as well give up on organized religion completely since there is no single one that shines any brighter than the others in my eyes. I seriously don't understand how some people can read the Bible and believe that it is the word of God but then say the Qur'an is not or believe the Qur'an and then call Baha'u'llah an imposter.

What initially spoke to you in your religious texts that made you think that it alone was the truth and that the others were fakes?

Who says the others are fakes?

I follow my heart, same as most people, I suppose. There are a lot of people out there who say I am destined to be tortured eternally at the pleasure of their God because my heart is not pure, but I can't live my life at the behest of threats.

Trickster

 

[TrevorKamal]

Who says the others are fakes?

Most people refering to any religion that came after the one they follow.

well, at least we can all agree on something, The return of Christ. He will come and this mess we made of the world will finally be cleaned up

Have you ever read the writings of Baha'u'llah?

I am not awaiting on the one the Muslims are waiting on though. but rather the One the OC Jews were waiting on.

Why in the world would you think they're talking about a different one?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I am not awaiting on the one the Muslims are waiting on though. but rather the One the OC Jews were waiting on.

Why in the world would you think they're talking about a different one?

Because actually I am not waiting on His "return", He has already come to me

I actually read the Bible as Biblically fulfilled, as do a lot of other christians

(Young) 2 Corinthians 5:17 so that if any one [is] in Christ--[he is] a new creature/creation; the old things did pass away, lo, have become NEW the all things. gegonen kaina ta panta

(Young) Revelation 21:5 And He who is sitting upon the throne said, `Lo, NEW all things I make; and He saith to me, `Write, because these words are true and stedfast; kaina panta poiw

 

[TrevorKamal]

Because actually I am not waiting on His "return", He has already come to me

I actually read the Bible as Biblically fulfilled, as do a lot of other christians

Can you explain?