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Do you really think He wants this?

Par5

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Thank you! That is correct. No there is no biblical basis and Jesus deserves a different day if He needs a birthday at all. God did not tell us of His birthday for a reason, and the Day of Ascension is much more appropriate in our beliefs. The Day of Ascension is 40 days after Passover.

Your description of my making the Lord a shrinking violet is offensive to say the least. I do not know what you have against Christians, but if you read the Bible you can clearly see that the only thing equal to the love of God is the WRATH of God .

John 3:36 The one who believes in the Son has eternal life; but the one who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.”

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of people who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, Romans 1:18

We are told that our God is a jealous God therefore do you think that a day honoring His Holy birth tacked on to the tail end of a Roman - pagan celebration and then overshadowed by a myth of nonsense and flying reindeer being told to His children will go down as no big deal? I really hope so but just remember....the devil does not love you on Christmas.
To be fair to Rayjena, I don't think that description of your god as being a shrinking violet was what she necessarily thought. I took it to mean it was how some Christians seemed to portray their god to others.
From what I can read about your god, shrinking violet is not a term I would use. Your description is much more apt. Wrathful.
So I think a more accurate description would be a wrathful god, doubled over in anger when someone does something to displease him.
If he was still around you could ask poor old Uzzah about god's anger.
Unfortunately, god instantly sapped him for doing nothing more than trying to stop the ark of the covenant from tumbling over.
And yes, the idea of flying reindeer is as you said, absolute nonsense.
Mind you, there are people who would say there are some things that Christians believe that could also be called nonsense.

.
 
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Rajni

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Your description of my making the Lord a shrinking violet is offensive to say the least.
Offense is taken, not given, so that's your choice.

I do not know what you have against Christians, but if you read the Bible you can clearly see that the only thing equal to the love of God is the WRATH of God .
Like I do with anyone, I take Christians on a case by case basis.

As for the bible, I've read it plenty. It says a lot of things, much of which I now take with a huge grain of salt. I'm no more inclined to believe that God is prone to tantrums than I am that Santa is going to slide down my chimney and leave presents under my tree. The bible underestimates God in certain places, imo.

We are told that our God is a jealous God
I'm sorry to hear that. My concept of God doesn't allow room for such human failings as jealousy or wrath.
 
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Jaxxi

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To be fair to Rayjena, I don't think that description of your god as being a shrinking violet was what she necessarily thought. I took it to mean it was how some Christians seemed to portray their god to others.
From what I can read about your god, shrinking violet is not a term I would use. Your description is much more apt. Wrathful.
So I think a more accurate description would be a wrathful god, doubled over in anger when someone does something to displease him.
If he was still around you could ask poor old Uzzah about god's anger.
Unfortunately, god instantly sapped him for doing nothing more than trying to stop the ark of the covenant from tumbling over.
And yes, the idea of flying reindeer is as you said, absolute nonsense.
Mind you, there are people who would say there are some things that Christians believe that could also be called nonsense.

.
Name them and I bet there is more historical proof than many other religions are loosely based on. How would you know what she thought? Are clairvoyants on this site now? Lol. Let's be fair to Rayjena. I know what a shrinking violet is and Let's be fair to you. I find you offensive as well because for one, who are you to downplay the reference to a " shrinking violet doubled over in pain'? What a joke. I would honestly think that both of you would have a little bit more respect for the One who created you, and has the last say on if you go to heaven or hell. Regardless of what you think or don't think, or ' think for someone else', or believe one certain fact remains for us all. Whether you stand in circles and break crosses, or kneel 5 times a day, or say a bunch of Hail Marys until your lips fall off , or worship a blank piece of paper, you as well as I will experience the first few moments of conscious existence after you take your last breaths and you will find yourself rising or falling. You will ask yourself " where am I?" Your body will feel the same, you will have your 5 senses but heightened feeling more alive than ever. You think you are a proud ego now...lets tune into you at this moment. Will you look back and wish maybe you could have given your Creator the same respect you give yourself? You clearly put yourself above God, or do not believe at all. Where ever did I assume that?? Do you capitalize your name? Why not His tile, or reference? It is God, and you do not appear to know Him at all. God does not have a wrathful temper tantrum when you do something " deemed" unChristian. What book have you been reading? God pours His wrath out on those who chose evil over good, those who mock Him and are arrogant, sinful and cruel. I merely created this thread to get people to ask themselves if they thought Jesus would want the Day they chose to celebrate His Holy Birth by lying to kids about Santa? Very few could do that and give themselves an honest answer. They wanted to accuse me of judging them, and justify what they do, and say it doesn't matter and whatever. It's WHATEVER! I did not ask the question on my own behalf because personally though I love everyone on here, how you celebrate Christmas is your business. It ultimately does not affect my life in any way except that if I had not asked it, the people who would have heard the message and repented but did not hear it so they didn't, would be on me- and I do not want to be responsible for that. I am not judging anyone- I will admit I am not the most tactful person, but I always mean well.
 
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Par5

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Name them and I bet there is more historical proof than many other religions are loosely based on. How would you know what she thought? Are clairvoyants on this site now? Lol. Let's be fair to Rayjena. I know what a shrinking violet is and Let's be fair to you. I find you offensive as well because for one, who are you to downplay the reference to a " shrinking violet doubled over in pain'? What a joke. I would honestly think that both of you would have a little bit more respect for the One who created you, and has the last say on if you go to heaven or hell. Regardless of what you think or don't think, or ' think for someone else', or believe one certain fact remains for us all. Whether you stand in circles and break crosses, or kneel 5 times a day, or say a bunch of Hail Marys until your lips fall off , or worship a blank piece of paper, you as well as I will experience the first few moments of conscious existence after you take your last breaths and you will find yourself rising or falling. You will ask yourself " where am I?" Your body will feel the same, you will have your 5 senses but heightened feeling more alive than ever. You think you are a proud ego now...lets tune into you at this moment. Will you look back and wish maybe you could have given your Creator the same respect you give yourself? You clearly put yourself above God, or do not believe at all. Where ever did I assume that?? Do you capitalize your name? Why not His tile, or reference? It is God, and you do not appear to know Him at all. God does not have a wrathful temper tantrum when you do something " deemed" unChristian. What book have you been reading? God pours His wrath out on those who chose evil over good, those who mock Him and are arrogant, sinful and cruel. I merely created this thread to get people to ask themselves if they thought Jesus would want the Day they chose to celebrate His Holy Birth by lying to kids about Santa? Very few could do that and give themselves an honest answer. They wanted to accuse me of judging them, and justify what they do, and say it doesn't matter and whatever. It's WHATEVER! I did not ask the question on my own behalf because personally though I love everyone on here, how you celebrate Christmas is your business. It ultimately does not affect my life in any way except that if I had not asked it, the people who would have heard the message and repented but did not hear it so they didn't, would be on me- and I do not want to be responsible for that. I am not judging anyone- I will admit I am not the most tactful person, but I always mean well.
You find me to be offensive, well I find you to be rather sad. As I said before you really need to chill out because you are all over the place.
You say in one breath that Rayjeena and I are offensive and in the next breath say that you love everyone here. You sarcastically ask if people think they are clairvoyant, and then you become the clairvoyant by telling us how we will feel and think as we breathe our last.
As for what you call my lack of respect, I am an atheist so therefore I don't believe in your god. I do respect a person's right to believe whatever they wish, but I am under no obligation to respect what they believe. Remember your own little dig at the Muslims and Catholics that you made in your post.
I have no problem with you or anyone else being critical about my lack of belief in their god, but I do have an issue with people like you whose attitude to me is, how dare I think what I think.
We both agreed that the idea of flying reindeer was nonsense, and I said that some people would say that some of the things Christians believed could also be considered nonsense, and now you have asked me to name one such thing.
That would be any one of the many supernatural events recorded in the bible such as walking on water, raising people from the dead, feeding thousands with a couple of loaves and a few fish. Then you have the Adam and Eve story and the Noah's ark tale.
Most religions have supernatural events and legendary tales in their CV and though they may be unbelievable to many, myself included, I just regard them as the rather strange unbelievable things that Christians think are true.
You say I have no respect for your god. Give me one good reason why I should respect a god that you believe ordered the slaughter of a nation and spared no one, not even children and infants. On reading your holy book, killing people en masse seems to be this god's favourite method of punishment.
Why would I want to respect a god like that?
 
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Jaxxi

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You find me to be offensive, well I find you to be rather sad. As I said before you really need to chill out because you are all over the place.
You say in one breath that Rayjeena and I are offensive and in the next breath say that you love everyone here. You sarcastically ask if people think they are clairvoyant, and then you become the clairvoyant by telling us how we will feel and think as we breathe our last.
As for what you call my lack of respect, I am an atheist so therefore I don't believe in your god. I do respect a person's right to believe whatever they wish, but I am under no obligation to respect what they believe. Remember your own little dig at the Muslims and Catholics that you made in your post.
I have no problem with you or anyone else being critical about my lack of belief in their god, but I do have an issue with people like you whose attitude to me is, how dare I think what I think.
We both agreed that the idea of flying reindeer was nonsense, and I said that some people would say that some of the things Christians believed could also be considered nonsense, and now you have asked me to name one such thing.
That would be any one of the many supernatural events recorded in the bible such as walking on water, raising people from the dead, feeding thousands with a couple of loaves and a few fish. Then you have the Adam and Eve story and the Noah's ark tale.
Most religions have supernatural events and legendary tales in their CV and though they may be unbelievable to many, myself included, I just regard them as the rather strange unbelievable things that Christians think are true.
You say I have no respect for your god. Give me one good reason why I should respect a god that you believe ordered the slaughter of a nation and spared no one, not even children and infants. On reading your holy book, killing people en masse seems to be this god's favourite method of punishment.
Why would I want to respect a god like that?
Stick with your God. He is suiting for you. Here is the overall thing. My question was for Christians who celebrate Christmas- so what worthwhile , credible , substantial answer could you possibly give as someone who does not celebrate Our Lords Holy Birth? Your opinions and beliefs have no merit or relevance here- No one was talking to you so rather than me chill out, know your place and understand, God did not run around and try to prove Himself to you and fail-
Make no mistake! He isn't starting a fan club! He doesn't care if you don't believe in Him but I will bet you- you will need Him before He needs you and that is just a fact for all of us. I will seriously pray for you. If you only knew what it was like to have SO much proof that it was humanly impossible NOT to believe- Jesus Christ is more real than you can even begin to imagine! You call me sad? That is your perception- please ...run with it -I am not offended by you- I feel bad for you. What an empty existence to be enduring for no good reason only to be eternally sanitized and forgotten- and you are ok with that? Why are you on here? I would never go on a forum full of professional sky divers and try to appear like I was an expert on the subject when all I had ever done is read about it but had never actually DONE IT! I would look like a fool! Wouldn't I ? Honestly! How could I relate to their full bodied experiences when all I had done was read a flat 2 dimensional text that wasn't even speaking to me. They would wonder where I got a false authority to say ANYTHING to them! I wasn't a Sky Diver! I would not do that- I know my place.
Oh, so you have never experienced the Supernatural? Have you ever wondered why? At this point it really doesn't even matter. Just keep doing whatever you do so well that makes whoever proud or whatever. At least you got to breath for a little while huh? That's always something...
 
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Jaxxi

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Offense is taken, not given, so that's your choice.

Like I do with anyone, I take Christians on a case by case basis.

As for the bible, I've read it plenty. It says a lot of things, much of which I now take with a huge grain of salt. I'm no more inclined to believe that God is prone to tantrums than I am that Santa is going to slide down my chimney and leave presents under my tree. The bible underestimates God in certain places, imo.

I'm sorry to hear that. My concept of God doesn't allow room for such human failings as jealousy or wrath.
What nation
Offense is taken, not given, so that's your choice.

Like I do with anyone, I take Christians on a case by case basis.

As for the bible, I've read it plenty. It says a lot of things, much of which I now take with a huge grain of salt. I'm no more inclined to believe that God is prone to tantrums than I am that Santa is going to slide down my chimney and leave presents under my tree. The bible underestimates God in certain places, imo.

I'm sorry to hear that. My concept of God doesn't allow room for such human failings as jealousy or wrath.


Insults are given, and offense is taken obviously. You chose to be insulting to God and that is fine. You are entitled to say whatever you like. I see what you are trying to do and its whatever. Falls short. You refer to taking on" Christians" on a case by case basis. That's fabulous! The question was for Christians regarding the way they celebrate the day delegated to Honor the Holy Birth of our Lord Jesus Christ. Since you are not a Christian and do not celebrate our Lord Jesus Christ- where would you appear to have an opinion on anything? Why would Jesus care what you did on that day? You will not be held to any kind of standard at the end- Just, " Next..." ( stamp) ( turn style spins) "Next.."

You have read the Bible plenty? So you have experienced the Supernatural? If you are " taking on Christians", your experiences must be dark as you sound like you are challenging Christians out of sport.

The God Almighty of The Holy Bible even goes as far to say His " name" is Jealous in Exodus, and otherwise it is mentioned 14 other times that God is jealous. This leads me to believe A) the worship you are doing is not to God , (who you think is a failure for having this human emotion) B) you think Gods creation ( Man) is a failure. .

So what is your purpose on Christian Forums? What are you hoping to accomplish " case by case" and why? Are you trying to understand Christians better or do you just hope to challenge them and break them down? I don't understand why you would apply to this thread when you clearly have no idea what Jesus would want and probably view Santa as ' harmless'...and that is fine! He is...and so is Disney.

And you might want to stick to threads that actually pertain to you, that way you can stay relevant throughout, rather than lose credibility halfway through for pretending to be someone you aren't.
 
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Rajni

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Insults are given, and offense is taken obviously. You chose to be insulting to God and that is fine. You are entitled to say whatever you like. I see what you are trying to do and its whatever. Falls short. You refer to taking on" Christians" on a case by case basis. That's fabulous! The question was for Christians regarding the way they celebrate the day delegated to Honor the Holy Birth of our Lord Jesus Christ. Since you are not a Christian and do not celebrate our Lord Jesus Christ- where would you appear to have an opinion on anything? Why would Jesus care what you did on that day? You will not be held to any kind of standard at the end- Just, " Next..." ( stamp) ( turn style spins) "Next.."

You have read the Bible plenty? So you have experienced the Supernatural? If you are " taking on Christians", your experiences must be dark as you sound like you are challenging Christians out of sport.

The God Almighty of The Holy Bible even goes as far to say His " name" is Jealous in Exodus, and otherwise it is mentioned 14 other times that God is jealous. This leads me to believe A) the worship you are doing is not to God , (who you think is a failure for having this human emotion) B) you think Gods creation ( Man) is a failure. .

So what is your purpose on Christian Forums? What are you hoping to accomplish " case by case" and why? Are you trying to understand Christians better or do you just hope to challenge them and break them down? I don't understand why you would apply to this thread when you clearly have no idea what Jesus would want and probably view Santa as ' harmless'...and that is fine! He is...and so is Disney.

And you might want to stick to threads that actually pertain to you, that way you can stay relevant throughout, rather than lose credibility halfway through for pretending to be someone you aren't.
You sound triggered. I'll give you a rest.
 
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Jaxxi

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Jaxxi, you really need to chill out. If the only thing parents had to worry about was that their child believed a rather rotund elderly gentleman with a white beard and wearing a red suit was someone who brought them their toys at Christmas, then there would be a lot less stressed parents in the world.
And stores are under no obligation to sell religious paraphernalia. I know there are shops that sell books and other stuff pertaining to the Christian faith, so why not shop there to get your nativity figures, rather than take your disappointment out on a store that is not religion-themed.
Oh my Gosh is that what you take from this? That was just an example I was using as to how stupid this Santa lie has become. We as parents are practically forced by the pressure of commercialization to lie to our kids about Santa. I remember getting in so much trouble for lying that year around Christmas. I was told I was grounded and that if I continued to lie I wouldnt get any gifts. Christmas Eve they were being loud hammering in that tether ball pole out back and I peeked out the window and saw my dad pounding in the pole. The next morning I found a box with Moms hand written 'Santa' treasure hunt' in it that lead to the tether ball pole. ' Santa must have left that there last night! I thought I heard something!' My eyes filled with tears. They were hypocrites. Lying to me on Christmas Day. I didn't want to give them their presents from me. I pushed harder and they both lied straight to my face. " You are both lying to me. I saw Dad last night in the yard. You can lie to me and get presents but I' m grounded and wont get any if I lie and I want to know why. Why are you lying to me on Jesus birthday? Or is Jesus a lie too?" " No Jesus is real." " How can I believe you? "I went to my room and cried. I didn't want presents. I wanted Jesus to be real. I wanted parents who weren't liars. And I think I wanted Santa to go back down his chimney to where he came from- burning in hell, for ruining Christmas . Lying to kids doesn’t only create problems down the road. There are more immediate consequences. In one study, adults either modeled honest behavior or dishonest behavior. It shouldn’t be surprising to you that these little kids played a bit of following the leader. Those who watched honest adults tended to behave more honestly soon after, and those who saw dishonest adults tended to become little liars themselves immediately. The trust barrier is breached. Researchers show it is not harmless. Morality shows that it is not right.
 
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Jaxxi

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You sound triggered. I'll give you a rest.
I apologize for my outburst. It is hard sometimes when Atheists seem to treat Christians like they are so desperate to believe in something that they do it without proof. I do not have Tooth fairy shrines or write odes to unicorns. I was skeptical until I had my own Supernatural experience that rattled me to my very core. I experienced something that I never knew was humanly possible and afterwards the proof I had lied in the bruises I gave my boyfriend as I broke out of my immobilizing sleep paralysis nightly until I strengthened my faith. That was over 20 years ago, and the paralysis had been accompanied by evil laughter. If it was physiological it would have continued, or been off and on. This was not the case. I pray you have your own Supernatural experience, because it will touch all 6 of your senses to the point that there is no guessing or wondering. I cannot imagine going through life having to call myself an Atheist because I never had the opportunity of knowing for a fact for myself. What an empty place of wonder that would be if I couldn't fill it with faith, and without my experiences, I too would be an Atheist .
 
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Par5

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Oh my Gosh is that what you take from this? That was just an example I was using as to how stupid this Santa lie has become. We as parents are practically forced by the pressure of commercialization to lie to our kids about Santa. I remember getting in so much trouble for lying that year around Christmas. I was told I was grounded and that if I continued to lie I wouldnt get any gifts. Christmas Eve they were being loud hammering in that tether ball pole out back and I peeked out the window and saw my dad pounding in the pole. The next morning I found a box with Moms hand written 'Santa' treasure hunt' in it that lead to the tether ball pole. ' Santa must have left that there last night! I thought I heard something!' My eyes filled with tears. They were hypocrites. Lying to me on Christmas Day. I didn't want to give them their presents from me. I pushed harder and they both lied straight to my face. " You are both lying to me. I saw Dad last night in the yard. You can lie to me and get presents but I' m grounded and wont get any if I lie and I want to know why. Why are you lying to me on Jesus birthday? Or is Jesus a lie too?" " No Jesus is real." " How can I believe you? "I went to my room and cried. I didn't want presents. I wanted Jesus to be real. I wanted parents who weren't liars. And I think I wanted Santa to go back down his chimney to where he came from- burning in hell, for ruining Christmas . Lying to kids doesn’t only create problems down the road. There are more immediate consequences. In one study, adults either modeled honest behavior or dishonest behavior. It shouldn’t be surprising to you that these little kids played a bit of following the leader. Those who watched honest adults tended to behave more honestly soon after, and those who saw dishonest adults tended to become little liars themselves immediately. The trust barrier is breached. Researchers show it is not harmless. Morality shows that it is not right.
Oh my Gosh is that what you take from this? That was just an example I was using as to how stupid this Santa lie has become. We as parents are practically forced by the pressure of commercialization to lie to our kids about Santa. I remember getting in so much trouble for lying that year around Christmas. I was told I was grounded and that if I continued to lie I wouldnt get any gifts. Christmas Eve they were being loud hammering in that tether ball pole out back and I peeked out the window and saw my dad pounding in the pole. The next morning I found a box with Moms hand written 'Santa' treasure hunt' in it that lead to the tether ball pole. ' Santa must have left that there last night! I thought I heard something!' My eyes filled with tears. They were hypocrites. Lying to me on Christmas Day. I didn't want to give them their presents from me. I pushed harder and they both lied straight to my face. " You are both lying to me. I saw Dad last night in the yard. You can lie to me and get presents but I' m grounded and wont get any if I lie and I want to know why. Why are you lying to me on Jesus birthday? Or is Jesus a lie too?" " No Jesus is real." " How can I believe you? "I went to my room and cried. I didn't want presents. I wanted Jesus to be real. I wanted parents who weren't liars. And I think I wanted Santa to go back down his chimney to where he came from- burning in hell, for ruining Christmas . Lying to kids doesn’t only create problems down the road. There are more immediate consequences. In one study, adults either modeled honest behavior or dishonest behavior. It shouldn’t be surprising to you that these little kids played a bit of following the leader. Those who watched honest adults tended to behave more honestly soon after, and those who saw dishonest adults tended to become little liars themselves immediately. The trust barrier is breached. Researchers show it is not harmless. Morality shows that it is not right.
Jaxxi, the post of mine that you are replying to is a post you have already replied to. Your post number 130.
I think Rayjeena is correct in saying you need a rest, and having read your last post to her I think it is advisable not to communicate further with you.
You appear to be very stressed and I have no desire, even unintentionally, to cause you any further stress.
 
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Jaxxi

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Jaxxi, the post of mine that you are replying to is a post you have already replied to. Your post number 130.
I think Rayjeena is correct in saying you need a rest, and having read your last post to her I think it is advisable not to communicate further with you.
You appear to be very stressed and I have no desire, even unintentionally, to cause you any further stress.
Thank you. You are probably right. I am trying to move and my dog is dying right before my eyes and I cannot afford to take him to the vet because of the move. I am beside myself and broken hearted. Im sorry for my rare form.
 
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Clizby WampusCat

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Do you really think Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior wants us celebrating a day in His honor by giving worldly goods and lying through our teeth to our children? They think Santa is real, and they hear its Jesus Birthday- then they find out Santa is NOT real and subconsciously assume Jesus isn't real either. When do we stop this dangerous tradition of lying on Christmas? So the question is " Do you think Jesus would want us celebrating His holy birth by lying to our kids about Santa?

* this question is not to condemn anyone as I am guilty of doing this with my children until I thought about it and I am just wondering if any other Christians have thought about it! Do you think He would want this?
We did santa in our house and used it for teaching thinking skills when they started to doubt. When they asked if santa was real we told them to find out for themselves. Think about the reasonableness of the claim and maybe think of ways to know if he is real or not.
 
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The Nativity of Our Lord is not a "secular" holiday. The secular world has adopted it and made its own modifications that we aren't obliged to follow, but it's our holy day or holiday.

I have no problem with celebrating Jesus' birth. But you shouldn't marry it with pagan rituals. The best way to do that is to hold it in the early fall when it actually occurred. That way you can distance it from Saturnalia.
 
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Ask any child how they took it when they found out Santa wasn't real. They will tell you they were lied to. Period. But that is a nice back peddle.

My brother was four, I not quite three. He whispered to me "Dad is Santa Claus." Didn't bother me a bit. In fact when I was about two my mother hung a stocking on the wall right next my bed, telling me that Santa would fill it with goodies. I was terrified.

The irony is that about that same time my mother gave us a religious coloring book. On one page was Jesus surrounded by little children and lambs. Mother said, "That's Jesus, and he loves you." I got all warm and fuzzy, and believed in him from that moment.
 
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Albion

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I have no problem with celebrating Jesus' birth. But you shouldn't marry it with pagan rituals. The best way to do that is to hold it in the early fall when it actually occurred. That way you can distance it from Saturnalia.
Maybe, but the fact is that we do not know for sure when it actually took place.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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Maybe, but the fact is that we do not know for sure when it actually took place.

We know it didn't take place in the dead of winter. The holy days give clue (Feast of Trumpets?). My guess is after the summer harvest but before winter, thus early fall. That would have been a good time for the census as well.
 
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Albion

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We know it didn't take place in the dead of winter. The holy days give clue (Feast of Trumpets?). My guess is after the summer harvest but before winter, thus early fall. That would have been a good time for the census as well.

But knowing it didn't happen in mid-winter doesn't tell us much about which alternate date to celebrate.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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But knowing it didn't happen in mid-winter doesn't tell us much about which alternate date to celebrate.

I don't think it matters. It's a man-made celebration that can take place anytime. I actually enjoy the religious connections, the music, as misguided as many are. I enjoy the season very much. In fact I decorate every Christmas but I avoid religious symbols. Snowflakes, lights, and seasons greetings only.
 
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Albion

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I don't think it matters. It's a man-made celebration that can take place anytime. .
Okay. I was just saying that even if we were to agree that December 25 is not accurate, there's no agreement among Christians on what date to move it to! As a result, moving it really is not an option.
 
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