Do you REALLY believe in Hell??

[solarwave]

Ok...first of all the KJV was (as you know) translated way before todays New Age bibles. and I could see how you would try to argue that ppl now-a-days "have a better understanding of the world now..." Sooo what your telling me is that the Holy Ghost who translated the KJV didnt/does'nt understand the "world" and all the things in it? so man comes along and says... " Hey the Holy Ghost got it WRONG...that is an Ox"....yeahhh I highly doubt thats the case.

Instead man comes along and says..."hmm how can we pull more christians away from God and his words...?"

The thing is I don't think the Holy Ghost translated the KJV any more than the other major translations. Maybe He made sure the important parts about salvation are kept the same, but otherwise I think all the translations are made by man.

U'NICORN, n. [L. unicornis; unus, one, and cornu, horn.] 1. an animal with one horn; the monoceros. this name is often applied to the rhinoceros.

Unicorn means that. You said that you agree that the Bible is the word of God...Which one?? theres Tons out there NIV, NASB, NKJV, CEV etc... and what "original" are you talking about??

Fair enough, if that is what the people who wrote the KJV ment then thats ok. But Unicorn normally means (today) a horse with a horn on it's head. When I say original and word of God I mean the words the human authors wrote (eg: the paper Paul, etc, wrote on).

Thats not true, even if there was one bible in each language people would still understand the same because The Bible can define itself, you could take that word and find it somewhere else used differently and thats how you define a word in the Bible if you dont understand...So you wouldnt define a word by the culture, you would define a word by Gods Word (Or you could just go to the 1828 Noah Webster dictionary).

Im not sure exactly what you mean here but even two people who are using the same Bible can come to different understandings of the same verses. Words tend to have more than one meaning.

Psalm 12: 6-7 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

No that time will not come because the Lord is going to make sure that his words in the KJV will not pass away.

Luke 21:33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

That seems to be telling us to preserve it. Before the KJV God must have perserved His word through a Latin Bible. But now that Bible has gone, and in my opinion the KJV is on its way out and a new age of Bible is preserving His word.

To be honest I don't mind hugely if you think the KJV is the only good Bible, as long as that belief doesn't affect things too much.

and with the whole fluoride thing, ur gonna have to do research on that too...trust me the evidence is EVERYWHERE go to youtube type in "fluoride" or to really an search engine that is not controlled by the Gov. (Google, Ask etc.) but here is a sneak peak ( They want to reduce the population) look up New Word Order there is so much out there that the News wont tell you.

As I may have said before I don't agree with conspiracy theories. Its true that the population of the world is getting too high, but I dont think there is some 'New World Order' being pushed for. These things are just said to make the world seem more interesting

Lol oh yeah now you tell me

Tell you what?

 

[SkyWriting]

Hey,

I want to ask if you REALLY believe in a Hell of eternal pain?...

The eternal pain is similar to what people experience on earth now if they are non-believers. The only difference is that they no longer have the option to convert. And they no longer have drugs (thoughts, whatever) to distract them from their choice. They don't accept God and they live with that decision eternally. That's Hell. It's been described as "flames" because the decision "burns" and is painful. So the scriptures paint it in the most "real" light possible. You have no body, so any anguish one experiences is quite real, and hurts a lot.
No beers to dull the pain.
No drugs, sex, or rock & roll.

 

[fm107]

The eternal pain is similar to what people experience on earth now if they are non-believers. The only difference is that they no longer have the option to convert. And they no longer have drugs (thoughts, whatever) to distract them from their choice. They don't accept God and they live with that decision eternally. That's Hell. It's been described as "flames" because the decision "burns" and is painful. So the scriptures paint it in the most "real" light possible. You have no body, so any anguish one experiences is quite real, and hurts a lot.
No beers to dull the pain.
No drugs, sex, or rock & roll.

What a load of rubbish. Please stop twisting God's word.

Of course the people that go there have a body. People feel physical pain as well as being tormented.

Luke 16:24
So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’

Your contradicting God's word.

Tread very carefully.

 

[tinkle]

Hell is very real and it's occurred numerous times throughout history. The massive amount of deaths of the native Americans through disease, The Holocaust, the genocide that took place in Rwanda. Those, in my mind are considered Hell for anyone who had to experience those horrific events.

As for eternal pain and suffering after death. It needs to surpass the atrocities that have already been placed on Earth.

 

[SkyWriting]

What a load of rubbish. Please stop twisting God's word.Of course the people that go there have a body. People feel physical pain as well as being tormented.Luke 16:24
So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’Your contradicting God's word. Tread very carefully.

So sinful people die and their body decays in the earth, or is creameated. They stay there in limbo or sleeping until the day of our lord.
The God gives them new physical bodies for the purpose
of inflicting pain on them for eternity.

He must have carved out space under the earth for all these bodies to fit in Hell. Or He just stacks them up on top of each other and turns the flames on low.

Hey, I'm ALL FOR literal reading of the scriptures. And if you want to believe the above scenario because that's what the scriptures read to you, then I'm not knocking it.

It's just that I went to school with people without physical sensation in their bodies from the neck down. One of them, due to multiple drunk driving accidents. Headed for Hell, he also gets a new body just so he can experience physical pain again? I just don't buy your version. It doesn't cover enough bases for me.

 

[fm107]

Actually they are not in limbo, they are in Hades which is the opposite of paradise.

What bases does it not cover?

Sounds like you making the scriptures suit you, that is a very wrong way to look at the word of God.

Instead, make yourself suit the scriptures.

 

[SkyWriting]

Actually they are not in limbo, they are in Hades which is the opposite of paradise.

What bases does it not cover?....
<snip>

The real world is modeled after the spiritual world. The dimensions, vastness, and all the attributes of what we see reflect the Creator.

New International Version (©1984)
For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

Never mind your interpretation of the scriptures. Please explain how God has shown us (other than your couple of sentences, on a piece of paper, written by man's hand) that the unrepentant will receive new bodies just for the purpose of being tortured for eternity.

You claim the truth about how billions of souls will all spend eternity, and the experiences they will have, hinges on this passage:

New International Version (©1984)
So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'

So let's look deeper....

English Standard Version
And the tongue is a fire, a world of unrighteousness. The tongue is set among our members, staining the whole body, setting on fire the entire course of life, and set on fire by hell.

New International Version
If anyone considers himself religious and yet does not keep a tight rein on his tongue, he deceives himself and his religion is worthless.

New International Version (©1984)
The tongue that brings healing is a tree of life, but a deceitful tongue crushes the spirit.

American King James Version
My heart was hot within me, while I was musing the fire burned: then spoke I with my tongue,

New International Version (©1984)
I am in the midst of lions; I lie among ravenous beasts--men whose teeth are spears and arrows, whose tongues are sharp swords.


I admit that the rich man in the story feels fire, and feels that, of all the parts of his body that needs attention, his tongue needs cooling water the most. But it seems the story goes much deeper than just being proof of bodily resurrection in Hades for sinners.

English Standard Version (©2001)
And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, ...

Sounds like you making the scriptures suit you, that is a very wrong way to look at the word of God. Instead, make yourself suit the scriptures.

Thanks for the warnings.
I appreciate them.

 

[HarborOrange]

The eternal pain is similar to what people experience on earth now if they are non-believers. The only difference is that they no longer have the option to convert. And they no longer have drugs (thoughts, whatever) to distract them from their choice. They don't accept God and they live with that decision eternally. That's Hell. It's been described as "flames" because the decision "burns" and is painful. So the scriptures paint it in the most "real" light possible. You have no body, so any anguish one experiences is quite real, and hurts a lot.
No beers to dull the pain.
No drugs, sex, or rock & roll.

I'm siding with FM on this. There's a new heaven and a new earth at the end, correct? Which, would imply that bodies are restored to their perfect form, in which YHWH made them in the Beginning, before the Fall.
So, if we have our bodies back in a place that many conceive to be a "spritual realm" then we would also have our bodies in Hell.
Hell is eternal torment, punishment, fire... It's torture. Read up on Tribulation, we'll all have to go through that (as there is not a Rapture) there are very real torments that'll go on during that time period (demon torments, famine, drought, wars, etc...) people will die, millions will die. I find that to be the exact sort of thing that will happen to them in Hell, they'll have to endure torment by demons, wars, famine, drought, eternal thirst, and absense of any good, except thousands of times worse than we have here on earth. Evil is the absense of G-d, which is the absense of good. Therefore, there is not even one good thing in Hell.
If there's not one good thing in Hell, that means that only evil, pain, and suffering dwells there. Those who are in Hell, they suffer, they suffer real, physical pain.

Then I saw another angel flying in midair, and he had the eternal gospel to proclaim to those who live on the earth&#8209;&#8209; to every nation, tribe, language and people. He said in a loud voice, "Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment has come. Worship him who made the heavens, the earth, the sea and the springs of water."

A second angel followed and said, "Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great, which made all the nations drink the maddening wine of her adulteries.

A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: "If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand he, too, will drink of the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. He will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name." This calls for patient endurance on the part of the saints who obey God's commandments and remain faithful to Jesus.

Then I heard a voice from heaven say, "Write: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on." "Yes," says the Spirit, "they will rest from their labor, for their deeds will follow them."

Revelation 14:6&#8209;13

 

[fm107]

Never mind your interpretation of the scriptures. Please explain how God has shown us (other than your couple of sentences, on a piece of paper, written by man's hand) that the unrepentant will receive new bodies just for the purpose of being tortured for eternity.

You claim the truth about how billions of souls will all spend eternity, and the experiences they will have, hinges on this passage:

New International Version (©1984)
So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'

There is no interpretation needed because it is literal.

Jesus's death would have been for nothing if he wasn't saving us from what he forewarned would happen to unbelievers:

Matthew 13:42
They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

The eternity of billions does not depend simply on Luke 16. There are ample scriptures where Jesus explicitly says that unbelievers will go to Hell.

If you believe the bible has errors then I struggle to understand why you believe what you believe. Your selecting bits which suit you and believe them but other parts, you spit out because you don't like the sound of it.

Again, what bases does it not cover?

 

[SkyWriting]

I'm siding with FM on this. There's a new heaven and a new earth at the end, correct? Which, would imply that bodies are restored to their perfect form, in which YHWH made them in the Beginning, before the Fall.
So, if we have our bodies back in a place that many conceive to be a "spritual realm" then we would also have our bodies in Hell.
Hell is eternal torment, punishment, fire... It's torture. Read up on Tribulation, we'll all have to go through that (as there is not a Rapture) there are very real torments that'll go on during that time period (demon torments, famine, drought, wars, etc...) people will die, millions will die. I find that to be the exact sort of thing that will happen to them in Hell, they'll have to endure torment by demons, wars, famine, drought, eternal thirst, and absense of any good, except thousands of times worse than we have here on earth. Evil is the absense of G-d, which is the absense of good. Therefore, there is not even one good thing in Hell.
If there's not one good thing in Hell, that means that only evil, pain, and suffering dwells there. ...<snip>

Some people die before birth, and everyone dies after that. Always due to some failure due to defect or age. I found a legless amputee non-believer friend of mine dead at middle age with his chair tipped over backwards and his "feet" in the air.

If there is "not one good thing in Hell", then how do we/they manage to smuggle in perfect bodies that work better than the originals?
Is that so we can experience physical pain? You've lost me.
Are "people" of so little value that they are also included when you say there is "not one good thing in Hell"?

Perhaps your view of Hell is distorted.

 

[SkyWriting]

There is no interpretation needed because it is literal.

I'm a literalist myself.
We can that "a literal interpretation." Which does not mean everything in the Bible is literal.
It just means that the most natural and literal interpretation is often the best.
There are many sections of scripture that are poetry and or song.
These passages are not literal, though a literal reading is informative.

Jesus's death would have been for nothing if he wasn't saving us from what he forewarned would happen to unbelievers:

Matthew 13:42
They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

The eternity of billions does not depend simply on Luke 16. There are ample scriptures where Jesus explicitly says that unbelievers will go to Hell.If you believe the bible has errors then I struggle to understand why you believe what you believe. Your selecting bits which suit you and believe them but other parts, you spit out because you don't like the sound of it. Again, what bases does it not cover?

Please explain how God has shown us that the unrepentant will receive new perfect bodies
just for the purpose of being tortured for eternity.

 

[Unfit'for'swine]

According to the book of Mary Baxter's divine revelation of hell, you go to hell in your current body, in whatever condition it might be.

I'm not sure though, I don't want to find out first hand

 

[SkyWriting]

According to the book of Mary Baxter's divine revelation of hell, you go to hell in your current body, in whatever condition it might be.

I'm not sure though, I don't want to find out first hand

Interesting. Like in Beetle juice.

Reading through her book, I note that she claims that the bodies are spirit bodies. That is my conclusion as well.

 

[Duckybill]

Interesting. Like in Beetle juice.

Reading through her book, I note that she claims that the bodies are spirit bodies. That is my conclusion as well.

Which could be MUCH more real than what we have now. And pain could be MUCH worse.

 

[SkyWriting]

Which could be MUCH more real than what we have now. And pain could be MUCH worse.

I've tried to say that a number of times.

I'm just trying to get people away from the notion of people being on a spit rotating like a turkey over a propane grill. A soul, without the distractions of having a physical body, has only itself to experience for eternity. Sinners are miserable, and in pain by choice. God does not torture souls. They will be tortured. They will be tortured by His absence for eternity. But not by God.
He will not be there.

 

[solarwave]

I agree more with Skywrittings understanding of what is going though it is likely no one really knows exactly.

The thing I find interesting is that some people seem intent on make hell seem as tortuous as possible as if God for some reason wants maximum pain inflicted on the ones He created and holds in existance.

Even if there there is a hell of pain it seems mostly likely to me a self inflicted mental pain. WWJD. When Jesus meets a group of people who want to stone an adulterous to death does He stop them and tell them about a more painful way to do away with her to the glory of God? Or does He stop them and tell her to sin no more?

Hell being not the exact way you think about it doesn't make it any less believing the Bible.

 

[SkyWriting]

I agree more with Skywrittings understanding of what is going though it is likely no one really knows exactly.

The thing I find interesting is that some people seem intent on make hell seem as tortuous as possible as if God for some reason wants maximum pain inflicted on the ones He created and holds in existance.

Even if there there is a hell of pain it seems mostly likely to me a self inflicted mental pain. WWJD. When Jesus meets a group of people who want to stone an adulterous to death does He stop them and tell them about a more painful way to do away with her to the glory of God? Or does He stop them and tell her to sin no more?

Hell being not the exact way you think about it doesn't make it any less believing the Bible.

Thanks. But in no way is my understanding more authoritative than anyone else. Like Solar-, I have a "Feel" for the personality of Jesus.

And I have a "feel" for God. My "gut" says that for a person to sit in complete silence and think about what they have done, without the distraction of our world, is the worst punishment that one can be endure.

I know what external pain is. It's no big deal. But those who have rejected God will be in real torment. Each person will be in torment according to the extent of their Sins against God and Humanity. Possibly children will all accept Jesus when they see Him. Some may not, I dunno. But each will be judged according to their deeds. What more just punishment could their be than to KNOW what you've done wrong. For all eternity.

Sorry if that doesn't fit peoples "romantic" ideas about Hell, but there is very little in scripture that supports the idea of "torture" or externally sourced "Pain". Torture and torment are 2 different things.

 

[Snowing 2010]

I believe Hell is not a place with fire but an absence of God. I believe that upon our death we will find out that there is a God and unbelievers will be tortured for eternity by knowing that God exists and that they will forever be without Him.

True that! It's a very real and scary place.

 

[glad-to-be-forgiven]

Actually, hereis what I believe, to be truthful. I believe that humans were not given enough capacity to think beyond what they can right now, so that we do not understand heaven, hell, God, or the devil. I sometimes get scared of thinking about staying in Heaven forever because I do not understand it. Will I get bored? How will I not sleep? It is all very confusing. But I pray about it and that seems to calm me down. I think that people are scared of hell and such because they don't UNDERSTAND it. No one ever truly will, but I believe that right now I don't understand, but when I get to heaven, it won't matter.

 

[MrMasino]

Hell as a physical place with the pools of lava and sulphuric gases everywhere was invented in the middle ages as a way of convincing people to give money or land to the then fairly corrupt church, as a way of "freedom from sins". In my own opinion (and from the other comments the opinion of others) hell is being as far away from the Lord as possible, even as far as not existing, and being completely seperated from God is the worst form of torture in my opinion.