Do you REALLY believe in Hell??

[solarwave]

Hey,

I want to ask if you REALLY believe in a Hell of eternal pain?

Even more so do you believe in a Hell of eternal pain for a majority of the human race, many for the sin of being born in the wrong place and time.

The reason I ask is because in my 19 years I have seen few people who understand what this really means and understood it in their hearts.

I have few (if anyone) break down and cry day after day for their unsaved friends, or go out every day, rain or sun, to tell people abou Jesus, or to give up their jobs to go to a random place in the world to preach the gospel. Why arn't peoples hearts breaking every time they see their non-christian friends?

Is it because we have become immune to hearing the terror of hell? Do we no understand what we say? Or do we deep down even believe in eternal torture?

For me I don't know if I believe it, or if I do I for some reason have a faith that God will save my friends somehow without me. The problem is many people die without knowledge of Jesus who God doesn't give the gospel to without people going to them.

Im not sure what my point is. Maybe hell isn't real in the traditional sense? Maybe we should have more love for non-christians? Maybe faith is bigger than knowledge of Jesus because it is grace not knowledge that saves?

Tell me your thoughts?

Solarwave

 

[fm107]

solarwave,

Hell is most definitely a real place. If it was not literal in scripture then why would Jesus have had to come to die for us? Their would be no point in it. Jesus came to save us from having to go to that place.

......................................................................................................

Why do so many Christians not go out onto the streets and proclaim the gospel?

Well many do, but I think most don't. The great commission was given to the apostles. Now the gospel has been proclaimed to the world and indeed is still being proclaimed by missionaries etc. In the western world, the bible is the most bought book. There are churches all around. Who in the world hasn't herd the gospel? I tell you, missionaries have gone deep into the likes of the Amazon etc and proclaimed the gospel to the tribes there. If a person truly hasn't herd the gospel, that person doesn't have far to travel to hear the name of Jesus being used.

But IF someone really hasn't herd the gospel then this is what God says:

Romans 1:20
For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

Psalm 19:1-4
The heavens declare the glory of God;
the skies proclaim the work of his hands.
Day after day they pour forth speech;
night after night they display knowledge.
There is no speech or language
where their voice is not heard.
Their voice goes out into all the earth,
their words to the ends of the world.

So nature itself tells us there is a God. God is preaching to people through his own creation daily.

Note how the voice goes out into all the earth.

The fact of the matter is that people don't want to seek him out.

Why?

John 3:19
men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.

They love their sinful lives and don't want to change it.

God tells us in scripture that if a person truly wants to find God and searches for him, he will show himself to them. The simple fact is most people do not want to seek him out i.e. knock on the door so God doesn't answer the door.

Matthew 7:8
For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.

Look how great God's love is!

Luke 15:20
“But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and was filled with compassion for him; he ran to his son, threw his arms around him and kissed him.

When God sees a repentant heart, he runs towards them and shows how dear his love is for them. Praise God!


..................................................................................................

As Christians, we can go out into the streets if we felt the urge to. Indeed God would be pleased to see us do it. But more over, we are called to lead good lives and be witnesses to those around us.

1 Peter 2:12
Live such good lives among the pagans that, though they accuse you of doing wrong, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day he visits us.

Matthew 5:16
"Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven."

1 Peter 3:15-16
But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander.

..................................................................................................

Many more people will go to Hell rather than Heaven:

Matthew 7:13-14
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

 

[HarborOrange]

I completely agree with fm.
If Hell wasn't real, why would Yeshua have warned us of it so many times? And, why would he have come to save us if there was not a place resembling Hell?

 

[Invisus]

It all comes down to what you understand as being hell. I view hell as not existing, what i mean by that is for those who do not want god nor his gift, they choose with their free will to die without him or his gift, and without eternal life i find it hard to visualize millions of people, being tortured along with satan for all eternity; if they have not accepted the gift of eternal life. Therefore i view hell as ceasing to exist, instead of a physical realm.

Also i find it hard to believe one would be punished for all eternity for choosing something god has stated everyone must choose, either to believe in him or not to.

I do not want my friends to be forced into anything, and until they come to me with questions and presumably if i, with the help of gods eternal knowledge can answer their questions, i have no right to interfere with their lives nor their family values, nor the way they have been taught up by their family and loved ones.

Everyone is equal. Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus. Everyone.

Again underlining that this is not going out towards anyone, this is just my taking on the subject. Have a great summer!

 

[fm107]

So much false teachings have choked Christianity. How can we teach others if aren't sure of the truth ourselves? This is the most basic of all Christian teaching.

Of course Hell is eternal:

Mathew 25:41
"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels."

Mark 9:48
where THEIR WORM DOES NOT DIE, AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.
Revelation 14:11
And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name."

Matthew 18:8
If your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire.

Hebrews 6:2
instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment.

Jude 1:7
In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

Matthew 3:12
His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire."

2 Peter 2:17
These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.

Jude 1:13
They are wild waves of the sea, foaming up their shame; wandering stars, for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever.

There are many, many more verses but this is more than plenty.

 

[daniel777]

i think it's a literal place, and to answer your question, i've spent lonely nights just crying and praying about it. when i think about my friends, of course it upsets me. when i look at the church today and see so many hypocritical heartless bafoons, it angers me, and i find myself asking the same questions your asking: is hell a real place? do we really understand? why aren't we giving everything we have; why aren't we hoping, praying and loving like the bible commands? do we really have faith in what Christ says? why can't we follow his example?

Im not sure what my point is. Maybe hell isn't real in the traditional sense?

possibly, but whatever it is, it's still "very bad" for whoever goes there.

Maybe we should have more love for non-christians?

absolutely. that's never a bad thing, unless it comes before your love for God. but the more your love for God increases, the more you love for everything else should increase also.

Maybe faith is bigger than knowledge of Jesus because it is grace not knowledge that saves?

in a certain sense, i think faith is at the core of all knowledge, but i see where you're going.

i think that if such a person ever heard the gospel, they would accept it if that were the case. is it possible that people are followers of christ out in the world without knowing everything about christ? i think it's possible. but such a person would accept the gospel if he heard it.

all in all, i can understand how you feel. you see people holding these ideas about hell, and then you see these same people unaffected by their own beliefs. don't be like them. it's not easy, but not all christians are like them. it's easy to turn a blind eye to something so terrible; it's easy to ignore it. but don't.

 

[Invisus]

It's not what i was taught, it is how I interpret it. Quoting from parts of the bible is not something i accept, as the bible itself contradicts itself in many ways than one. The only way to understand it is through dissecting the totality of the bible.

And even then, there are many ways to interpret even that.

All any christian to this date has is theories. We do not understand how god works, is, feels. And we can definitely not even begin to comprehend his knowledge.

Just clarifying there are no false teachings, only viewpoints and how one understands the bible. This is why we have thousands of different churches who believe in completely different theories.

But to come to a sort of ending here, what Solarwave asked was "do you believe in a hell of eternal pain" not eternal in the sense of lasting forever but the full sentence; "a place which lasts forever filled with pain and suffing." And no i do not believe in a hell in the traditional sense, but more of a choice to not exist if you do not believe in god.

 

[Vatis]

Well personally I think the concept of hell was and still is abused by the churches, for them it's a very powerful tool to keep the believers concerned about their eternal souls, which gives them way too much control over the people.

What disturbes me most is the idea that if you only get in heaven as a christian. I mean, even if everyone would hear about the bible (which is not the case), what would make them convert? They have their own religions, and nobody can tell which religion got it right. But on the other hand, if you kill someone and repent, then you go to heaven.
To me, this is just too obvious of a mind-control tool.

The best example of abusing the peoples fear of hell is introducing the purgatory in the middle ages, which is never mentioned in the bible. They told the people that before going to heaven, everyone had to stay in purgatory to be cleansed from all sin for a certain amount of time, however by donating money to the church they could shorten their stay and that of their loved ones in purgatory.

Eternal damnation is just too powerful a threat to the people, and to me this really seems like spiritual fascism.
Maybe there is hell, but I am sure God wouldn't want us worrying about it and a lot less people go there as it says in the bible.

 

[fm107]

Wow, I didn't know that my generation is so lost in regard to such basic bible teachings. I struggle to even think of you as a Christian if you don't believe in Hell. What could Jesus have saved you from if it was not Hell? You seem blinded from the truth, I give you countless verses + commentary and yet you still can't see the truth.

It's not what i was taught, it is how I interpret it. Quoting from parts of the bible is not something i accept, as the bible itself contradicts itself in many ways than one. The only way to understand it is through dissecting the totality of the bible.

And even then, there are many ways to interpret even that.

All any christian to this date has is theories. We do not understand how god works, is, feels. And we can definitely not even begin to comprehend his knowledge.

Just clarifying there are no false teachings, only viewpoints and how one understands the bible. This is why we have thousands of different churches who believe in completely different theories.

But to come to a sort of ending here, what Solarwave asked was "do you believe in a hell of eternal pain" not eternal in the sense of lasting forever but the full sentence; "a place which lasts forever filled with pain and suffing." And no i do not believe in a hell in the traditional sense, but more of a choice to not exist if you do not believe in god.

The bible DOES NOT contradict itself. It's simply your lack of understanding of it. You said there's many ways than one, lets see them.

You obviously don't read the bible much because it tells us exactly how God works, is and feels. And that's also why we have the Holy Spirit.

John 16:13
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth.

Seems to me that you guys can't bare the truth for what it is. I have no idea why. My guess is you are lovers of the world which God tells us not to be.

I'm shocked by the amount of young so-called Christians who do not believe in Hell and who think the bible contradicts itself. Why would someone believe in something which contradicts itself? Are you serious?

 

[Colin]

I believe in the reality of the state we call "Hell" .
There is no teaching that any particular individual is in that state .
Jesus will save that one lost sheep or those many lost sheep in his own way .
Let's not diminish the victory of Jesus .
I think that if only one is lost his victory will be incomplete .
He came to save all .
Let's give him credit for who he is and what he is able to achieve .

 

[solarwave]

Just to answer some general questions first: Not everyone has heard the gospel. Also those who have (know about Jesus) may not have understood the real gospel. Many people think that to get to heaven you have to be a good person and that is what christianity is.... which is obviously not true.

Even if someone has heard the gospel why assume that they would convert instantly? Consider how much their own beliefs un ingrained into their heads.

If Hell wasn't real, why would Yeshua have warned us of it so many times? And, why would he have come to save us if there was not a place resembling Hell?

I made a point of using the words eternal and painful hell in the first post. Hell must be something, but is it the conscious eternal time of pain that some assume?

is it possible that people are followers of christ out in the world without knowing everything about christ? i think it's possible. but such a person would accept the gospel if he heard it.

Really? Why?

Wow, I didn't know that my generation is so lost in regard to such basic bible teachings. I struggle to even think of you as a Christian if you don't believe in Hell. What could Jesus have saved you from if it was not Hell? You seem blinded from the truth, I give you countless verses + commentary and yet you still can't see the truth.

I don't think this is aimmed at me but I'll reply anyway. Im not sure is a case of not reading or being taught the Bible well. If you had talked to me 2 or so years ago I would have been able to defend conservative christianity as well as anyone else my age. I knew hell was real and could argue for the justice of hell. Luckly I have never believed only those who consciously call Jesus Lord are saved (as some will be though general revelation).

Anyway, then I questioned why I believed what I believed and I am still in that season. Why do I question hell? I am learning to love people more and understand the grace, mercy, forgiveness and love of God, but mainly because I realised just how long eternity was. The horror of a hell of eternal pain is mind-blowing. I cannot comprehend it. I can deal with all the evil in the world, but hell is leagues beyond that. It would be better off if the world was never created than for one person to go to hell, even if that person was Hitler, he doesn't deserve it. 100 million years being only a short introduction to hell with many more trillions to go and even then that is just the beginning. Can God do nothing to stop this great evil? Even if it is justified in some way it still seems to out weigh all the good of heaven.

How can you be Christian and not believe in Hell?

Is the gospel based on hell? I thought it was the love of God expressed through Christ? The core of the gospel is God, love, Christ's death and resurreaction. If you believe these things I think you are Christian. Would you say someone is not one of you because they care enough for humans to ask the question whether justfied eternal pain makes sense? Love God more.... of course.... love tradition more.... maybe not.

Im not actually asking you to stop believing in hell, just your opinion, I don't care if you agree or not. I don't even know what I think.

 

[shalalalalala36]

I absolutely believe in hell.
Isn't it the whole point of Jesus dying to wash our sins and save us from being punished in hell?

 

[solarwave]

I absolutely believe in hell.
Isn't it the whole point of Jesus dying to wash our sins and save us from being punished in hell?

A eternal painful hell?

I would say the reason Jesus died was to reconcile us with God. I dunno.

 

[Colin]

A eternal painful hell?

I would say the reason Jesus died was to reconcile us with God. I dunno.

Spot on .

 

[fm107]

I absolutely believe in hell.

Isn't it the whole point of Jesus dying to wash our sins and save us from being punished in hell?

Amen.

Just to answer some general questions first: Not everyone has heard the gospel. Also those who have (know about Jesus) may not have understood the real gospel. Many people think that to get to heaven you have to be a good person and that is what christianity is.... which is obviously not true.

Even if someone has heard the gospel why assume that they would convert instantly? Consider how much their own beliefs un ingrained into their heads.



I made a point of using the words eternal and painful hell in the first post. Hell must be something, but is it the conscious eternal time of pain that some assume?



Really? Why?



I don't think this is aimmed at me but I'll reply anyway. Im not sure is a case of not reading or being taught the Bible well. If you had talked to me 2 or so years ago I would have been able to defend conservative christianity as well as anyone else my age. I knew hell was real and could argue for the justice of hell. Luckly I have never believed only those who consciously call Jesus Lord are saved (as some will be though general revelation).

Anyway, then I questioned why I believed what I believed and I am still in that season. Why do I question hell? I am learning to love people more and understand the grace, mercy, forgiveness and love of God, but mainly because I realised just how long eternity was. The horror of a hell of eternal pain is mind-blowing. I cannot comprehend it. I can deal with all the evil in the world, but hell is leagues beyond that. It would be better off if the world was never created than for one person to go to hell, even if that person was Hitler, he doesn't deserve it. 100 million years being only a short introduction to hell with many more trillions to go and even then that is just the beginning. Can God do nothing to stop this great evil? Even if it is justified in some way it still seems to out weigh all the good of heaven.

How can you be Christian and not believe in Hell?

Is the gospel based on hell? I thought it was the love of God expressed through Christ? The core of the gospel is God, love, Christ's death and resurreaction. If you believe these things I think you are Christian. Would you say someone is not one of you because they care enough for humans to ask the question whether justfied eternal pain makes sense? Love God more.... of course.... love tradition more.... maybe not.

Im not actually asking you to stop believing in hell, just your opinion, I don't care if you agree or not. I don't even know what I think.

Can God do nothing to stop this great evil?

You seem to be saying what God is doing is evil, though I think you just never used your words correctly here. I think you just can't get your head round whether it is just for God to have someone thrown into Hell.

Have you forgotten that God is just in his ways, more over God is love.

1 John 4:16
God is love.

If you contemplate all the God has done, you can't get over how mind blowing God's love is towards mankind.

He created us.
He created a beautiful world for us to enjoy.
He redeemed us from our sins, through the suffering and death of his own dear son.
He continues to forgive us because we continue to sin knowing what Jesus has done for us.
He continues to be patient with us.
He blesses us daily, he is so kind.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

Acts 14:17
Yet he has not left himself without testimony: He has shown kindness by giving you rain from heaven and crops in their seasons; he provides you with plenty of food and fills your hearts with joy."

God is so loving in his ways but he is also just.

Your a spec in God's eyes, someone who doesn't even know 1% of everything. How can you question God's judgement? God sees into every man's heart, he knows their minds.

Man has rejected God's love, they constantly slap away an outstretch hand. Man deserve Hell indeed I deserve Hell. Now we can ask Jesus to take our sins away and for him to say to God, "put their sins on my account." But those who don't ask Jesus to do so will need to pay for their evil deeds themselves.

What would make you think that God, making his own son suffer at the hands of men, then to die that horrific death on the cross would not make those who reject him suffer intensely also?

He never held back his own son who never deserved this, why would he hold someone back who not only does deserve it but have also rejected his own son?

Your right it would have been better for people to have not even existed rather than go to Hell. That's why Jesus said to Judas who betrayed him:

Matthew 26:24
The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born."

God has given men a chance to live and enjoy life, to enjoy God's creation and love. He gave them free will, it was their own choice to reject God's gift of salvation. They can't point the finger at God but only at themselves because they were too greedy, too uncaring, too unloving to want anything to do with God.

Why?

John 3:19
This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.</SPAN>

 

[fm107]

Spot on .

Well of course that is the reason.

But most people don't want to be reconciled because that would mean they need to face up to the fact that are sinners and would have to abandon their lives of sin which they love so much, i.e. the drinking, the lying etc.

So indeed that was the reason came. But most men prefer the darkness because they love their sin too much and for that they will go to Hell. God gives people chance after chance after chance to change their ways but men are simply not interested in doing so.

The fact that the world is still as it is today is because God wants to continue to offer people this chance. Every day is an extra chance (given by God) to believe in him but too many see it as an extra day to please themselves by continuing to sin.

 

[solarwave]

Can God do nothing to stop this great evil?

You seem to be saying what God is doing is evil, though I think you just never used your words correctly here. I think you just can't get your head round whether it is just for God to have someone thrown into Hell.

Have you forgotten that God is just in his ways, more over God is love.

I wasn't using words properly then and I was more speaking from the heart. Your right, my problem is that it doesn't seem just to be anymore. As I said before I once justified it, but now for the reason you give.... God is just, but more so God is love. God commands us to have mercy, so how much more will He.

God is so loving in his ways but he is also just.

Your a spec in God's eyes, someone who doesn't even know 1% of everything. How can you question God's judgement? God sees into every man's heart, he knows their minds.

How can infinite punishment ever be just? I question man's understanding of hell no God Himself.

What would make you think that God, making his own son suffer at the hands of men, then to die that horrific death on the cross would not make those who reject him suffer intensely also?

For that very reason. The love expressed in Christ is greater than that or any human. It isn't God's power, knowledge or justice that make me worship Him, its His love. Any jerk can be powerful, knowledgeable, or even just in punishment, but it is love that sets God apart.

I understand that sin is our own fault, but we are also very ignorant and very screwed up creatures. The death of Jesus seems much better than eternal hell.

Feel free to disagree

 

[shalalalalala36]

I think everybody should watch this:

YouTube - Hell is real- my testimony vision from the Holy Spirit

 

[daniel777]

Really? Why?

Because christ is more than an idea, and the christian experience between its christ and his followers transcends mere experience (what you see, taste, touch, smell, and feel) and even language.

what i mean is, knowing christ isn't some general experience shared by the whole of humanity. knowing about him, sure. aspects of him have been made known through "general revelation" as you called it, but true christianity, the kind taught in the bible and the kind that saves people, is knowing and trusting in Christ.

that's why i don't pay much head to all this controversy about people who have never heard the gospel. first off, i trust Christ with things even though i may not completely understand them. he's shown himself to me enough for me to feel comfortable affording that level of faith. secondly, no one can make christ known to anyone else. He alone makes himself known to people. there are no teachers, but christ, and there is no understanding without christ. from these ideas easily follows that no one "hears" the gospel without christ. basically, i believe that people can be brought to belief "in" Christ (believing "in" something is not nearly the same as simply believing it exists btw. belief "in" something presupposes trust or faith. ie, "i believe tom exists" is different than saying "i believe in tom") only through Christ, and i don't see him as limited by men or mere circumstance. he can show himself to anyone he wishes.

Now, as to whether or not persons to whom christ has revealed himself, people who also haven't heard men preach the gospel before, will accept the gospel as the gospel once they hear it, i think they will simply because i don't see a reason why the spirit of christ wouldn't testify to its own truth.

does that make sense?

------

also, one way of thinking about "hell" that might help you is simply thinking of it as a mirror. just a mirror.

 

[fm107]

[/font][/color]

I wasn't using words properly then and I was more speaking from the heart. Your right, my problem is that it doesn't seem just to be anymore. As I said before I once justified it, but now for the reason you give.... God is just, but more so God is love. God commands us to have mercy, so how much more will He.




How can infinite punishment ever be just? I question man's understanding of hell no God Himself.



For that very reason. The love expressed in Christ is greater than that or any human. It isn't God's power, knowledge or justice that make me worship Him, its His love. Any jerk can be powerful, knowledgeable, or even just in punishment, but it is love that sets God apart.
I understand that sin is our own fault, but we are also very ignorant and very screwed up creatures. The death of Jesus seems much better than eternal hell.

Feel free to disagree

But God has shown mercy upon mercy already. Every day God gives man is an extension of his mercy.

Let me put is another way...

A murder comes before a judge in court, the judge declares the person guilty and he orders that the murderer gets the death penalty. Should the jude be just or let him go free? People must be punished for their crimes, just as people sin against finite man and therefore get finite sentences. Likewise people who sin against an infinite God get infinite sentences.

.......................................................................................

Actually, men are no longer ignorant:

Acts 17:30
In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent.

.......................................................................................

What's worse Jesus&#8217; death or eternal Hell?

Let's think about that for a second.

When a person goes to hell, they are being punished for only their sins.

When Jesus was punished, he was punished for the sins of the entire existence of man.

Only he could take the punishment and still live because he is God (he was still alive to be able to say "it is finished" then to go on to say "into your hands I commit my spirit." If a man took that punishment he would have died in less than milliseconds.

Remember, God's wrath was upon Jesus in that three hours of darkness - eternal Hell for mankind in three hours. Who can fathom his great suffering? No my friend, eternal Hell is not as bad as what Jesus went through.

.......................................................................................

And I welcome you saying feel free to disagree. This after all is not an argument, but a brotherly discussion about the truth.