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Do you have to be a good servant to be saved?

Do you have to be a good servant to be saved?

  • Yes

    Votes: 13 37.1%
  • No

    Votes: 14 40.0%
  • I don't know

    Votes: 3 8.6%
  • Other

    Votes: 5 14.3%

  • Total voters
    35

BBAS 64

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Daniel C

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Flippant? I think clear and direct would be more appropriate. But either way, Scripture agrees with my statements, which also have nothing to do with Babylon.


I think your Church is the harlot of Babylon and that's what we were talking about,the Catholic Church,hence me referencing Babylon. Anyway.

Why don't we simplify this and go back to the original point:

What do you think it takes to get to heaven?
 
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Daniel C

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They were called to do good works and Jesus specifically says why He condemned them.

“"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7:21-23‬ ‭NASB

These believers practiced sin and that is why they were condemned. So you believe in faith alone. Ok, suppose I believe that Jesus paid for all my sins and I trust in Him that I am completely forgiven so I go out to churches who teach different doctrines that I believe and begin shooting everyone in those churches. Then when the police arrive I begin shooting them to and in the crossfire I get shot and killed. Am I saved? If not why?


They were not told to do good works. They were told ''to do the will of the father''.

''21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.''

What is the will of the father?

''For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.''
 
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Daniel C

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You obviously didn’t read my post did you? If you did you would know that the Catholic Church had absolutely nothing to do with the inquisitions and never forced anybody to believe anything. Do you believe that evil prevailed over Jesus’ church for the first 1600 years of Christianity?

“I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭16:18‬ ‭NASB‬‬


Yes I did read your post.

I don't care what the Catholic church teaches and reject their claim as an authority.

Peter was not the rock the church is built on referenced to at caesarea philippi,Jesus is.
 
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Daniel C

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John 15 explained in the proper context with the proper translations. So many people who believe in eternal security get way off course when they hit this stumbling block. This is because John 15:1-6 refutes the doctrine of eternal security. In order to understand this passage of scripture you have to really look at the context as well as the Greek definitions of the keys words used here. First I’ll start with the context. Who is Jesus speaking to? This message takes place right after the Last Supper. Judas has already left the upper room to go and betray Jesus and Jesus and His faithful 11 apostles are walking to Gethsemane late at night. So according to the scriptures only Jesus and His faithful 11 apostles are present during this message. So let’s examine Jesus’ message. I’m going to use the NLT version which I know many people will say is inaccurate but I will show you by the definition of the Greek words used that in this particular case the NLT is actually more accurate than the KJV,ASV,and ESV with one exception. In verse 9 the NLT adds the word “true” in front of the word “disciples”. I have removed the word “true” because it is not in the original Greek text and it is not my intention to add anything to the original text in order to support my position in this discussion. So let’s continue.


““I am the true grapevine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch of mine that doesn’t produce fruit, and he prunes the branches that do bear fruit so they will produce even more. You have already been pruned and purified by the message I have given you. Remain in me, and I will remain in you. For a branch cannot produce fruit if it is severed from the vine, and you cannot be fruitful unless you remain in me. “Yes, I am the vine; you are the branches. Those who remain in me, and I in them, will produce much fruit. For apart from me you can do nothing. Anyone who does not remain in me is thrown away like a useless branch and withers. Such branches are gathered into a pile to be burned. But if you remain in me and my words remain in you, you may ask for anything you want, and it will be granted! When you produce much fruit, you are my disciples. This brings great glory to my Father. “I have loved you even as the Father has loved me. Remain in my love. When you obey my commandments, you remain in my love, just as I obey my Father’s commandments and remain in his love.”

John 15:1-10 NLT


First let’s examine verses 1 & 2.


““I am the true grapevine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch of mine that doesn’t produce fruit, and he prunes the branches that do bear fruit so they will produce even more.”

John 15:1-2 NLT


The Father “cuts off” every branch “of mine” that doesn’t produce fruit. Before we look at cuts off notice Jesus says “of mine”. These branches are believers. They are already grafted into the vine. We will see more evidence of this later in my explanation. So let’s look at the full definition of the Greek word used for the term “cuts off” which is aírō (G142).


Definition

1) to raise up, elevate, lift up a) to raise from the ground, take up: stones b) to raise upwards, elevate, lift up: the hand c) to draw up: a fish

2) to take upon one's self and carry what has been raised up, to bear

3) to bear away what has been raised, carry off a) to move from its place b) to take off or away what is attached to anything c) to remove d) to carry off, carry away with one e) to appropriate what is taken f) to take away from another what is his or what is committed to him, to take by force g) to take and apply to any use h) to take from among the living, either by a natural death, or by violence i) cause to cease


Notice the bold letters in the definition. To take off or away what is attached to anything. The branch is attached to the vine. When the Greek word aírō is used in reference to something that is attached to something the correct definition is removed or detached. The term taken away is also used which still implies the same thing. If someone is taken away from the vine (Jesus) they become detached or removed from Him which cannot result in salvation. Let’s continue there’s plenty more evidence to confirm this


Jesus is not a vine. Explanation given.
 
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BBAS 64

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They were not told to do good works. They were told ''to do the will of the father''.

''21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.''

What is the will of the father?

''For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.''

Good Day, Daniel

The will of the Father for Jesus was/is:

John 6 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day

He always does the will of the Father with out fail... checkmate, game over.

In Him,

Bill
 
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BobRyan

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They were called to do good works and Jesus specifically says why He condemned them.

“"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7:21-23‬ ‭NASB

These believers practiced sin and that is why they were condemned. So you believe in faith alone. Ok, suppose I believe that Jesus paid for all my sins and I trust in Him that I am completely forgiven so I go out to churches who teach different doctrines that I believe and begin shooting everyone in those churches. Then when the police arrive I begin shooting them to and in the crossfire I get shot and killed. Am I saved? If not why?

Great question.

Paul provides an answer in 1 Cor 6

7 Actually, then, it is already a defeat for you, that you have lawsuits with one another. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be defrauded? 8 On the contrary, you yourselves wrong and defraud. You do this even to your brethren.
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.
 
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Daniel C

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Good Day, Daniel

The will of the Father for Jesus was/is:

John 6 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day

He always does the will of the Father with out fail... checkmate, game over.

In Him,

Bill


Right, The father sent us a savior and he wants Mankind to be redeemed through Christ. That was my point with John 3:16,although granted it didn't state that in the verse,just the savior part.

Good verse though.
 
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BobRyan

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Good Day, BNR32FAN

They were not believers... notice Jesus word "I never knew you" they were not his sheep, he never chose to enter into a relationship with them. They can say, and do all they want it is the actions or inaction of Jesus to know or not to know that it the main verb clause and sets the frame work of this passage.

In that chapter "not everyone who says to ME 'Lord, Lord' will ENTER" Matt 7. He does not find fault with their words, their doctrine... He finds fault with their actions. Their fruit.

They do great works "IN JESUS' name" according to Matt 7.

Ezek 18 explains what is going on

24 “But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity and does according to all the abominations that a wicked man does, will he live? All his righteous deeds which he has done will not be remembered for his treachery which he has committed and his sin which he has committed; for them he will die.

Which is why the result is "I never knew you"
 
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BBAS 64

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In that chapter "not everyone who says to ME 'Lord, Lord' will ENTER" Matt 7. He does not find fault with their words, their doctrine... He finds fault with their actions. Their fruit.

They do great works "IN JESUS' name" according to Matt 7.

Ezek 18 explains what is going on

24 “But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity and does according to all the abominations that a wicked man does, will he live? All his righteous deeds which he has done will not be remembered for his treachery which he has committed and his sin which he has committed; for them he will die.

Which is why the result is "I never knew you"

Good Day, Bob

Easier to stick with the explicit meaning the words in the text

Jesus never did the action verb know on the personal pronoun object you.

Thus Grammatically I never knew you is quite clear.

In Him,

Bill
 
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fhansen

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I think your Church is the harlot of Babylon and that's what we were talking about,the Catholic Church,hence me referencing Babylon. Anyway.
I know, hence my reply. Lots of ignorance in the world. Again, so much for Sola Scriptura.
Why don'y we simplify this and go back to the original point:

What do you think it takes to get to heaven?
Do God's will. We enter communion with Him by faith, becoming His sons. Then we're expected to act like it, with the help of grace. It's a package deal, a work of His we cooperate in as we work out our salvation with He who works in us.
 
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charsan

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Whatever God asks, with the grace He gives to accomplish it. Then He decides how well we've done-with what we've been given.

Exactly. We should never presume on God that we will get in Heaven. Though many evangelicals like to presume on God
 
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BNR32FAN

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Good Day, BNR32FAN

They were not believers... notice Jesus word "I never knew you" they were not his sheep, he never chose to enter into a relationship with them. They can say, and do all they want it is the actions or inaction of Jesus to know or not to know that it the main verb clause and sets the frame work of this passage.

In Him,

Bill

They prophecized in His name, they cast out demons in His name, and performed many miracles. How could they do these things in Jesus’ name if they didn’t believe in Him? Jesus may have never “knew” them as in knew them in a relationship but they were obviously believers of Jesus Christ if they were successfully doing these things in His name. The reason they are not permitted into heaven is because they do not do the will of The Father as Jesus said they were workers of lawlessness. Meaning they were sinful and ungodly people.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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I never said Judas was a believer.
This thread is about eternal salvation. How do you think yours is holding up?
If you died tonight, how sure are you you'd to heaven?
Have you read the OP and the TREAD?

It does not seem to me to be about eternal salvation.

Perhaps you could show an example post about eternal salvation that I missed ?
 
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Daniel C

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You said:''Do God's will. We enter communion with Him by faith, becoming His sons. Then we're expected to act like it, with the help of grace. It's a package deal, a work of His we cooperate in as we work out our salvation with He who works in us.''


Well that is not what the Bible says on how to get to heaven:

''29 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,
30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.''


This is Paul speaking. He says to be saved you need to believe. He didn't mention a Eucharist or water baptism or confession,just believe.

And after we are saved it is eternal. Salvation is the free gift of God that he will not take be,less he be lying.

''For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.''
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Nor is He a wooden "Door" - John 10

It is difficult sometimes, or many times, with the current restrictions on the internet, to determine the reasons or thinking processes that lead to so many errors (rejecting and not understanding Jesus words spoken clearly to little children) posted online, for some things that look obviously so simple to understand for little children, but some "educated" road blocks to understanding have been constructed or are in place some how.
 
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