Do you have to be a good servant to be saved?

[zoidar]

Luke 12
And the Lord said, “Who then is the faithful and sensible steward, whom his master will put in charge of his servants, to give them their rations at the proper time? 43 Blessed is that slave whom his master finds so doing when he comes. 44 Truly I say to you that he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 45 But if that slave says in his heart, ‘My master will be a long time in coming,’ and begins to beat the slaves, both men and women, and to eat and drink and get drunk; 46 the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will cut him in pieces, and assign him a place with the unbelievers. 47 And that slave who knew his master’s will and did not get ready or act in accord with his will, will receive many lashes, 48 but the one who did not know it, and committed deeds worthy of a flogging, will receive but few. From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Luke 12
And the Lord said, “Who then is the faithful and sensible steward, whom his master will put in charge of his servants, to give them their rations at the proper time? 43 Blessed is that slave whom his master finds so doing when he comes. 44 Truly I say to you that he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 45 But if that slave says in his heart, ‘My master will be a long time in coming,’ and begins to beat the slaves, both men and women, and to eat and drink and get drunk; 46 the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will cut him in pieces, and assign him a place with the unbelievers. 47 And that slave who knew his master’s will and did not get ready or act in accord with his will, will receive many lashes, 48 but the one who did not know it, and committed deeds worthy of a flogging, will receive but few. From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more.

When you are saved you become a good servant.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

There are a lot of advantages in being a good servant

 

[Daniel C]

No.

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast"

A gift is free. You don't earn it.

 

[☦Marius☦]

No.

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast"

A gift is free. You don't earn it.

James 2:14–26 (ESV):

14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that?

17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.

19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! 20 Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar?

22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; 23 and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God. 24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.

25 And in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way?

26 For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.

 

[Daniel C]

James 2:14–26 (ESV):

14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? 17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! 20 Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; 23 and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God. 24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. 25 And in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? 26 For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.

That doesn't actually say the saved person loses their salvation does it?

 

[☦Marius☦]

That doesn't actually say the saved person loses their salvation does it?

Dead faith is useless, however there are other verses about loss of salvation.

 

[Daniel C]

Dead faith is useless, however there are other verses about loss of salvation.

Dead faith Is still saved.

What are these other verses on salvation loss?

 

[zoidar]

When you are saved you become a good servant.

What do you do if you are a believer and notice you are a bad servant?

 

[charsan]

Luke 12
And the Lord said, “Who then is the faithful and sensible steward, whom his master will put in charge of his servants, to give them their rations at the proper time? 43 Blessed is that slave whom his master finds so doing when he comes. 44 Truly I say to you that he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 45 But if that slave says in his heart, ‘My master will be a long time in coming,’ and begins to beat the slaves, both men and women, and to eat and drink and get drunk; 46 the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will cut him in pieces, and assign him a place with the unbelievers. 47 And that slave who knew his master’s will and did not get ready or act in accord with his will, will receive many lashes, 48 but the one who did not know it, and committed deeds worthy of a flogging, will receive but few. From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more.

I voted yes. Salvation is a journey not a one time event that evangelicals think it is. Christ gave examples when He talked about the three servants who were given different sums of cash and the third one buried his money, what happened to him? He was not saved even though he was a servant he lost his position (final salvation). St. Paul even says he has fought the good fight and James says Faith without works is dead so that is why I voted yes.

 

[☦Marius☦]

Dead faith Is still saved.

What are theses other verses on salvation loss?

Dead faith does NOT save. Dead faith is dead, gone, non existent. There is no such thing as faith without works, because true faith brings true works.

Romans 11:18-22
do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.

2 Peter 2:20
For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”


Revelation 2:10
Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and for ten days you will have tribulation. Be faithful unto death, and I will give you the crown of life.

Revelation 2:25-26
Only hold fast what you have until I come. The one who conquers and who keeps my works until the end, to him I will give authority over the nations

Revelation 3:1-5
“And to the angel of the church in Sardis write:

‘The words of him who has the seven spirits of God and the seven stars.

“ ‘I know your works. You have the reputation of being alive, but you are dead. complete in the sight of my God. Remember, then, what you received and heard. Keepit,and repent. If you will not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know atwhat hour I will come against you. soiled their garments, and they will walk with me in white, for they are worthy. The one who conquers will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels.


Hebrews 3:6-14
but Christ as a Son over His own house, whose house we are if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.

the Holy Spirit says:

“Today, if you will hear His voice,

exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end,


Colossians 1:22-23
he has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless and above reproach before him, if indeed you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you heard, which has been proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, became a minister.

1 Corinthians 15:1-2
Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.

Luke 12:41-46
Peter said, “Lord, are you telling this parable for us or for all?”
the faithful and wise manager, whom his master will set over his household, to give them their portion of food at the proper time? Blessed is that servant whom his master will find so doing when he comes. he will set him over all his possessions. is delayed in coming,’ and begins to beat the male and female servants, and to eat and drink and get drunk, on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will cut him in pieces and put him with the unfaithful.

Matthew 10:22-32
and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved. persecute you in one town, flee to the next, for truly, I say to you, you will not have gone through all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

“A disciple is not above his teacher, nor a servant above his master. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebul, how much more will they malign those of his household.

for nothing is covered that will not be revealed, or hidden that will not be known. the housetops. do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell. And not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father. even the hairs of your head are all numbered. you areof more value than many sparrows. So everyone who acknowledges me before men, Ialso will acknowledge before my Father who is in heaven,


Matthew 19:21-30
Jesus said to him: “If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.” When the young man heard this he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.

only with difficulty will a rich person enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.” looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” we have left everything and followed you. What then will we have?” when the Son of Man will sit on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or lands, for my name’s sake, will receive a hundredfold and will inherit eternal life. many who are firstwill be last, and the last first.

Matthew: 6:15
but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Hebrews 6:4-6
For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.

Matthew 7:21-23
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.

2 Peter 2:20-22
For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”

Hebrews 10:26-28
For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Revelation 21:6-8
6 He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7 Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children. 8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

Galatians 5:19-24
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

1 Corinthians 6:9
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality

Ephesians 5:3-5
But sexual immorality and all impurity or covetousness must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints. no filthiness nor foolish talk nor crude joking, which are out of place, but instead let there be thanksgiving. everyone who is sexually immoral or impure, or who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has no inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.

Revelation 22:19
and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

 

[Daniel C]

Dead faith does NOT save. Dead faith is dead, gone, non existent. There is no such thing as faith without works, because true faith brings true works.

Romans 11:18-22
do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.

2 Peter 2:20
For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”


Revelation 2:10
Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and for ten days you will have tribulation. Be faithful unto death, and I will give you the crown of life.

Revelation 2:25-26
Only hold fast what you have until I come. The one who conquers and who keeps my works until the end, to him I will give authority over the nations

Revelation 3:1-5
“And to the angel of the church in Sardis write:

‘The words of him who has the seven spirits of God and the seven stars.

“ ‘I know your works. You have the reputation of being alive, but you are dead. complete in the sight of my God. Remember, then, what you received and heard. Keepit,and repent. If you will not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know atwhat hour I will come against you. soiled their garments, and they will walk with me in white, for they are worthy. The one who conquers will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels.


Hebrews 3:6-14
but Christ as a Son over His own house, whose house we are if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.

the Holy Spirit says:

“Today, if you will hear His voice,

exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end,


Colossians 1:22-23
he has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless and above reproach before him, if indeed you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you heard, which has been proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, became a minister.

1 Corinthians 15:1-2
Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.

Luke 12:41-46
Peter said, “Lord, are you telling this parable for us or for all?”
the faithful and wise manager, whom his master will set over his household, to give them their portion of food at the proper time? Blessed is that servant whom his master will find so doing when he comes. he will set him over all his possessions. is delayed in coming,’ and begins to beat the male and female servants, and to eat and drink and get drunk, on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will cut him in pieces and put him with the unfaithful.

Matthew 10:22-32
and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved. persecute you in one town, flee to the next, for truly, I say to you, you will not have gone through all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

“A disciple is not above his teacher, nor a servant above his master. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebul, how much more will they malign those of his household.

for nothing is covered that will not be revealed, or hidden that will not be known. the housetops. do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell. And not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father. even the hairs of your head are all numbered. you areof more value than many sparrows. So everyone who acknowledges me before men, Ialso will acknowledge before my Father who is in heaven,


Matthew 19:21-30
Jesus said to him: “If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.” When the young man heard this he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.

only with difficulty will a rich person enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.” looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” we have left everything and followed you. What then will we have?” when the Son of Man will sit on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or lands, for my name’s sake, will receive a hundredfold and will inherit eternal life. many who are firstwill be last, and the last first.

Matthew: 6:15
but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Hebrews 6:4-6
For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.

Matthew 7:21-23
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.

2 Peter 2:20-22
For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”

Hebrews 10:26-28
For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Revelation 21:6-8
6 He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7 Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children. 8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

Galatians 5:19-24
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

1 Corinthians 6:9
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality

Ephesians 5:3-5
But sexual immorality and all impurity or covetousness must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints. no filthiness nor foolish talk nor crude joking, which are out of place, but instead let there be thanksgiving. everyone who is sexually immoral or impure, or who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has no inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.

Revelation 22:19
and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

I will have to answer this lot tomorrow as it's getting late here. I don't believe I can lose my salvation as I was never good enough to earn it in the first place, these verses just talk about people who aren't saved and need to be or will be saved and lapse back into sin again like the dog going back to his vomit again. Until tomorrow.

 

[grasping the after wind]

What do you do if you are a believer and notice you are a bad servant?

Pray for God's grace and help. Sometimes one has no ability to be good at things. If one is a poor servant for lack of ability despite being willing and eager to be a good one then only God's intervention can change the poor servant into a better one.

 

[redleghunter]

Or is it...Are the saved good servants? Or better...are all servants saved?

 

[grasping the after wind]

Or is it...Are the saved good servants? Or better...are all servants saved?

I think all the saved are servants but not all servants are good at it.

 

[zoidar]

Or is it...Are the saved good servants? Or better...are all servants saved?

I will ask you the same question I did to Maria B: What do you do if you are a believer and notice you are a bad servant?

 

[Jonaitis]

James 2:14–26 (ESV):

14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that?

17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.

19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! 20 Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar?

22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; 23 and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God. 24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.

25 And in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way?

26 For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.

What you have quoted contradicts what you think it says.

 

[Jonaitis]

Dead faith is useless, however there are other verses about loss of salvation.

I don't know what "dead" faith looks like. If it is dead, it is non-existent. This means that the kind of faith that is dead, in James' argument, is a mere spoken profession. He clearly points out that the fruit of a living faith shows that it exists. You must twist this argument to fit your own theology.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

What do you do if you are a believer and notice you are a bad servant?

If you were not saved you would not know what the characteristics of a bad servant are let alone even care about it. The Holy Spirit guilds us in all truth and conviction, the searing of the conscience. Conviction is the first step to getting back on track and to be the good servant God intended you to be.
Blessings

 

[redleghunter]

I will ask you the same question I did to Maria B: What do you do if you are a believer and notice you are a bad servant?

Good question. I would gather we would determine such a status from a self examination or confrontation.

We would be the Ephesian church in Revelation 2. The command is to go back to our first love which is Christ. Meaning go back to the Cross.