Do you have a "renewed mind".?

Clare73 · Jun 3, 2021

Sidon said:
Yes, you write a lot. I have addressed it. What i do is take your main point, and deal with that, as you tend to write many points, but they are generally similar.
Our conversation tends to me....."sidon says this" and "clare73 disagrees", and then you repost the disagreement, again".
Thats fine.

I "repeat" my disagreements because it is obvious that the import of their facts is not registering with you. Any familiarity with the NT should give you to realize that the apstles preached to unbelievers. They did not write pastoral letters to unbelievers, they wrote them to the churches.
The letters were for teaching believers, while preaching was for evangelizing unbelievers--because faith comes by hearing.

Yet, you don't seem to have enough grounding in the NT to know these things.

Hebrews 10 is a warning regardng apostasy of professing Christians. It is not addressed to unbelievers. The NT writers did not write letters to unbelievers, they preached to them.

Nor are the Hebrews in Acts 28 comparable to the recipients of the NT letter. Those in Acts 28 were Christ-rejecting unbelievers.
Granted, the destiny of the apostate and the unbeliever are the same because both are ultimately Christ-rejectors, but the recipients of the letter to the Hebrews were professing Christians considering apostasy, while those in Acts 28 were outright Christ-rejecting unbelievers.

Your errors are serious because by them you deny apostolic teaching to believers, declaring it irrelevant for them. That is a serious mishandling of the word of God (2 Timothy 2:15), and can have serious conseqeuences for believers, as well as for the teacher (1 Corinthians 3:12-15).

You may be unable to see that. Something is amiss here.

Sidon · Jun 4, 2021

Clare73 said:
My two posts are a road map for rectifying your misdirection and bringing you into the consistent truth of the NT revelation which you so love.

Your posts are your opinion that you'd like me to use as my Theology.
That can't happen.
But i will say this for you, i find some agreement with you, as long as you dont try to deny God's Grace as "you can lose your salvation".

You did post this that i'll quote so lets look at it.

Here it is...

Clare73 wrote

""""""Not so sure about his state, since John reveals, "If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him," (1 John 2:15). There is no salvation if the love of the Father is not in one. """""""
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, That verse says that if a person loves the world, the love of the Father is not in Him.
It does not say that the love of the Father, is the same as a person being Saved or not.

If you look at the verse,.... its saying that the love of the world, or a person's love for things of the world, is ether greater than their love for God, or it has replaced their love for God.
That's Demas.
So, the apostle is making a observation to then teach a distinction
The verse does not say that they are not born again, as you seem to think. ??

Have you dealt with many believers, who are WORLDLY?
The have Tattoos, they have body piercings, they can tell you everything that Alicia Keys, and Beyonce and Miley Cyrus, and Lady Gaga, and Katy Perry, and Taylor Swift, are doing today.
They are addicted to being online and to watching Netflix, and Cable TV.
They can tell you what sports teams in College and Pros are in 1st-5th place and why.

See all that?
That is a person who is caught up in the WORLD.
And when a person who is born again is obsessed on all that, and more, then their love for God, is way down at the BOTTOM of the list. = stone cold, = Dead Faith, as James discusses.
So, that is the verse., you are misunderstanding.
See, the "love of God", is not the "new birth"., as you are misunderstanding.

The Body of Christ is filled with people who love what this world has to offer.
I wrote a Thread about this very topic last week, that you should read.
It talks about "being in the world and not of the world" and what to do about that.

Sidon · Jun 4, 2021

ViaCrucis said:
As a student of Church History I can tell you quite easily that there have been no shortage of false teachers who were firmly committed to their belief that they had some special calling from God.
Just because you call yourself a teacher and talk about being "called" means absolutely nothing. What matters is the substance of what you teach, and the substance of what you teach is in error.

-CryptoLutheran

Do i need you to recognize what ive done as a Minister, or will do?
Not at all.
I teach Pauline Theology, and so does Paul.
This came from Christ to Paul, who called him after the other 12, and took this one apostle "apart" from the rest and gave Him all the church Doctrine.
How do i know this?
That's not the question. The question is, why don't you know it?
Once you do, if that happens, then you'll be able to hear me.
Not until.

And consider that all you said to me, actually applies to you, and your belief system.
I say you teach the error, and now that you can't prove what you teach, you post a personal attack.
Id say, you just lost any credibility, tho i never gave you any from the beginning, honestly.
But i know you'll try again.., as what else can you do?

Sidon · Jun 4, 2021

Clare73 said:
It is more than that, including misunderstanding of the necessity of sanctifiction.

"Without holiness, no one will see the Lord." (Hebrews 12:14)
You correctly understand the principle of not losing salvation, but your misinformation applies that principle in a totally contra-Biblical manner.
You don't keep your salvation by confessing sin, you demonstrate your salvation by confessing sin, below).

Ok, i edited your post again, as its really just one main thought, so, let me address that one.

Clare73, to teach that without holiness you can't see the Lord............as you are doing it, is saying....>"If i am holy, i can see the Lord".
Well, how do you become holy?
You cant do it.
So what does that mean?
It means that you have to be MADE RIGHTEOUS, which is how you become Holy.
See, the righteousness of God, is the Holiness of God.
You receive this as the "gift of Righteousness" , when you are born again.
Tat is how you "see God". Its based on GOD making a person RIGHTEOUS with the Blood Atonment.
There is the Holiness that God gives as "the gift of Salvation".

Sidon · Jun 4, 2021

Clare73 said:
sanctification by the Holy Spirit (through works of obedience).
.

There is no holiness that you can produce, of yourself, by works of obedience.
So, that is Legalism that you are teaching.
None of your works are righteous....Not before you are saved, and not after.

Sidon · Jun 4, 2021

Clare73 said:
You don't keep your salvation by confessing sin, you demonstrate your salvation by confessing sin, .

If you are sinning and confessing, all you are demonstrating, is that your discipleship is a failure.
God didnt save anyone so that they can spend the rest of their life, being dominated by sin or wrong belief.
Yet, for most, that is their Christianity, that you are saying is the correct discipleship..
Its not.
Its a carnal discipleship, that is trying by self effort, to do only what the Grave of God, can provide.

Sidon · Jun 4, 2021

Clare73 said:
We are made righteous in relation to our sentence of condemnation. The righteousness of justification is not our transformation, it is simply a crediting of Jesus' righteousness to us which justifies us--a declaration by God of "not guilty)

Thats not it Clare73.
Our salvation is more then being declared something.
Way more.
In fact, the born again, have BECOME God's very Righteousness, because Jesus became our very sin.

We are more then esteemed to be born again, we actually have BECOME a New Creation, that is EQUAL TO, God's very Holiness.

That is much different then being declared.

Sidon · Jun 4, 2021

Clare73 said:
It is your misunderstanding of sanctification that causes you to deny that 1 John was written only to believers, and that Hebrews was written to professing Christians.

No, i deny that 1st John is talking to the born again, because an Apostle, has no sin.
Jesus has it.
Also, an Aposle would not be talking to the born again, as them being "sinners".
This is why he is later talking to the Born again, as i showed you, and said they "can't sin".
Now, you've seen this, but you dont believe it because you don't yet understand what being "made righteous" actually means.
This is why you keep teaching legalism as YOU personal process of sanctification as "holiness".
See, we have no part in Holiness, and that is why God had to give it to us as a "GIFT" the GIFT of Righteounsess.
We then "work out our Salvation", which means we learn to be a disciple according to the Spiritual Rules that dictate the Kingdom of God.
And that #1 rule is to understand that Salvation and Discipleship are not the same.
When you can see this, you'll stop teaching : 1part Grace, and one part "My self sanctification" as a part of Holiness.

Listen...Holiness is Righteousness.
Its the same thing, and you don't have any, unless God causes you to have His.

Clare73 · Jun 4, 2021

Sidon said:
Your posts are your opinion that you'd like me to use as my Theology.
That can't happen.
But i will say this for you, i find some agreement with you, as long as you dont try to deny God's Grace as "you can lose your salvation".

You did post this that i'll quote so lets look at it.

Here it is...

Clare73 wrote

""""""Not so sure about his state, since John reveals, "If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him," (1 John 2:15). There is no salvation if the love of the Father is not in one. """""""
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, That verse says that if a person loves the world, the love of the Father is not in Him.
It does not say that the love of the Father, is the same as a person being Saved or not.

If you look at the verse,.... its saying that the love of the world, or a person's love for things of the world, is ether greater than their love for God, or it has replaced their love for God.
That's Demas.
So, the apostle is making a observation to then teach a distinction
The verse does not say that they are not born again, as you seem to think. ??

Have you dealt with many believers, who are WORLDLY?
The have Tattoos, they have body piercings, they can tell you everything that Alicia Keys, and Beyonce and Miley Cyrus, and Lady Gaga, and Katy Perry, and Taylor Swift, are doing today.
They are addicted to being online and to watching Netflix, and Cable TV.
They can tell you what sports teams in College and Pros are in 1st-5th place and why.

See all that?
That is a person who is caught up in the WORLD.
And when a person who is born again is obsessed on all that, and more, then their love for God, is way down at the BOTTOM of the list. = stone cold, = Dead Faith, as James discusses.
So, that is the verse., you are misunderstanding.
See, the "love of God", is not the "new birth"., as you are misunderstanding.

The Body of Christ is filled with people who love what this world has to offer.
I wrote a Thread about this very topic last week, that you should read.
It talks about "being in the world and not of the world" and what to do about that.

Well done. . .but if love of the world is continued as a lifestyle, that is evidence (not proof) of no salvation.

Clare73 · Jun 4, 2021

Sidon said:
Ok, i edited your post again, as its really just one main thought, so, let me address that one.

Clare73, to teach that without holiness you can't see the Lord............as you are doing it, is saying....>"If i am holy, i can see the Lord".

First of all, why do you call that my teaching when it is a direct word-for-word quote of the
God-breathed Scripture in Hebrews 12:14?
Deal with it as Scripture, don't minimize it as "your teaching."

And secondly, that's a logic fail.

"Without fuel no one can fly" does not mean "everyone with fuel can fly."

And thirdly, the NT does not exhort us to do what is already done for us.
That is meaningless.
The NT everywhere testifies there is action to be taken on the part of the believer, testimony to that effect which I present below that you may address the single principle of all of them.

It is understood that these actions are in the Holy Spirit who produces in us his results through them.
But the principle of them remains: there is action to be taken on the part of the believer.

". . .be holy in all you do; for it is written: 'Be holy, because I am holy--Leviticus 11:44-45.' "
(1 Peter 1:15-16)

. . .slaves to sin which leads to death. . .slaves to obedience which leads to righteousness."
(Romans 6:16)

"Just as you used to offer parts of your body in slavery to impurity, so now
offer your body in slavery to righteousness leading to holiness." (Romans 6:19)

Now that you have. . .become slaves to God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness. (Romans 6:22)

". . .let us purify ourselves from everthing that contaminates body and spirit,
perfecting (completing) holiness out of reverence for God. (2 Corinthians 7:1)

"Live as children of light (for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth)"
(Ephesians 5:9)

". . .pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, endurance and gentleness." (1 Timothy 6:11)

". . .pursue righteusness, faith, love and peace. . ." (2 Timothy 2:22)

". . .all Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for. . .training in righteousness." (2 Timothy 3:16)

"God disciplines us for our good that we may share in his holiness. . . discipline produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it." (Hebrews 12:10-11)

"die to sin and live for righteousness" (1 Peter 2:24)

"everyone who does what is right has been born of him." (1 John 2:29)

"he who does what is right is righteous. . .he does what is sinful is of the devil," (1 John 3:7)

"Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means!" (Romans 6:1)

"Do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desire." (Romans 6:12)

"Do not offer the parts of your body to sin. . .Offer them to God as instruments of righteousness." (Romans 6:13)

Well, how do you become holy?
You cant do it.
So what does that mean?
It means that you have to be MADE RIGHTEOUS, which is how you become Holy.
See, the righteousness of God, is the Holiness of God.
You receive this as the "gift of Righteousness" , when you are born again.
Tat is how you "see God". Its based on GOD making a person RIGHTEOUS with the Blood Atonment.
There is the Holiness that God gives as "the gift of Salvation".

Clare73 · Jun 4, 2021

Sidon said:
There is no holiness that you can produce, of yourself, by works of obedience.
So, that is Legalism that you are teaching.
None of your works are righteous....Not before you are saved, and not after.

Addressed in my post #110, above.

Clare73 · Jun 4, 2021

Sidon said:
If you are sinning and confessing, all you are demonstrating, is that your discipleship is a failure.
God didnt save anyone so that they can spend the rest of their life, being dominated by sin or wrong belief.
Yet, for most, that is their Christianity, that you are saying is the correct discipleship..
Its not.
Its a carnal discipleship, that is trying by self effort, to do only what the Grave of God, can provide.

You are denying the God-breathed Scriptures in 1 John 1:8-10, which you justify by claiming that John wrote a letter to unbelievers.

Apostles writing to unbelievers is addressed in my post #101, above.

Clare73 · Jun 4, 2021

Clare73 said:
We are made righteous in relation to our sentence of condemnation. The righteousness of justification is not our transformation, it is simply a crediting of Jesus' righteousness to us which justifies us--a declaration by God of "not guilty," giving us permanent right-standing with God's justice; never to be condemned again. It is a Court function.

Sidon said:
Thats not it Clare73.
Our salvation is more then being declared something.
Way more.
In fact, the born again, have BECOME God's very Righteousness, because Jesus became our very sin.

We are more then esteemed to be born again, we actually have BECOME a New Creation, that is EQUAL TO, God's very Holiness.

That is much different then being declared.

Thanks, but the subject of my post was justification, not salvation.

Non-responsive.

You have yet to deal with the actual Scriptures presented.

Clare73 · Jun 4, 2021

Sidon said:
No, i deny that 1st John is talking to the born again, because an Apostle, has no sin.

John writing to unbelievers is addressed in my post #101, above.

Jesus has it.
Also, an Aposle would not be talking to the born again, as them being "sinners".
This is why he is later talking to the Born again, as i showed you, and said they "can't sin".
Now, you've seen this, but you dont believe it because you don't yet understand what being "made righteous" actually means.
This is why you keep teaching legalism as YOU personal process of sanctification as "holiness".
See, we have no part in Holiness, and that is why God had to give it to us as a "GIFT" the GIFT of Righteounsess.
We then "work out our Salvation", which means we learn to be a disciple according to the Spiritual Rules that dictate the Kingdom of God.
And that #1 rule is to understand that Salvation and Discipleship are not the same.
When you can see this, you'll stop teaching : 1part Grace, and one part "My self sanctification" as a part of Holiness.

Listen...Holiness is Righteousness.
Its the same thing, and you don't have any, unless God causes you to have His.

Sidon · Jun 4, 2021

Clare73 said:
First of all, why do you call that my teaching when it is a direct word-for-word quote of the
God-breathed Scripture in Hebrews 12:14?

The NT everywhere testifies there is action to be taken on the part of the believer,

"without holiness, no one will see the Lord'".

"No man has seen God at any time".

So, you have a problem.
And the problem is, you've never seen Jesus.
Neither has your pastor, preacher, minister, or Pope.
Your verse says that without Holiness, you can't "SEE the Lord".
This verse is SPIRITUAL... Clare73, deeply.

So, you are posting a verse that talks about using your eyes to see Him, if you are holy, andYet, that never happens., because that verse isn't referring to your EYES, Clare73.
And why? Because your verse is not LITERAL, regarding a person on this Earth, who is born again.
So, are one more person, who posts random verses, that do not happen to the born again, as the verse is literally written.....and you dont understand this, and yet, you post them as your proof of nothing.

So, tell us Clair73.. You've never SEEN Jesus.
Is that because you are not HOLY YET?
That's what your verse says.

So, there you go, i just dealt with your scripture and your nonsense.

And then you post that "action is to be taken on the part of a believer".
You mean, like discipleship?
Like, """"Walking in the Light As He is in the light?""""
Like "presenting your body a living sacrifice"?

Ok thanks for posting the obvious.

Sidon · Jun 4, 2021

Clare73 said:
Addressed in my post #110, above.

Yes, your #110 addresses Discipleship.
Discipleship is not your holiness.
Its you presenting yourself as a living sacrifice to God.
Thats Discipleship 101

Sidon · Jun 4, 2021

Clare73 said:
You are denying the God-breathed Scriptures in 1 John 1:8-10, which you justify by claiming that John wrote a letter to unbelievers.

Apostles writing to unbelievers is addressed in my post #101, above.

No, im denying your interpretation of a verse that you are misapplying because the person that taught you, was also in error.
You're just carrying on with their previous error, as a tradition.

Sidon · Jun 4, 2021

Clare73 said:
Thanks, but the subject of my post was justification, not salvation.

Non-responsive.
You have yet to deal with the actual Scriptures presented.

If i deal with it, and did, and you don't understand that i did, then, you should seek to know why.

Sidon · Jun 4, 2021

Clare73 said:
John writing to unbelievers is addressed in my post #101, above.

No, not at all. That is a born again Apostle, who has no sin, dealing with people who have theirs.
If they listen to him, there is forgiveness found for them.
If not, they are in the same sinking ship as those in Hebrews 10 and Acts 28.

pescador · Jun 4, 2021

Clare73 said:
You are denying the God-breathed Scriptures in 1 John 1:8-10, which you justify by claiming that John wrote a letter to unbelievers.

Apostles writing to unbelievers is addressed in my post #101, above.

Here is the relevant section of 1 John in context ...

"Now this is the gospel message we have heard from him and announce to you: God is light, and in him there is no darkness at all. If we say we have fellowship with him and yet keep on walking in the darkness, we are lying and not practicing the truth. But if we walk in the light as he himself is in the light, we have fellowship with one another and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say we do not bear the guilt of sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. But if we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous, forgiving us our sins and cleansing us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar and his word is not in us."

Clearly nobody would announce the gospel message to believers. Unlike unbelievers, they would have already heard the Gospel. [Should I announce the gospel to you?]

Would you write "If we say we do not bear the guilt of sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us." ? This is a denial of salvation! John would never write this to believers!

"But if we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous, forgiving us our sins and cleansing us from all unrighteousness." So, according to you, after being saved believers still need to be forgiven and cleansed?"

You are denying the God-breathed Scriptures in 1 John, which you justify by claiming that John wrote a letter to believers. There was no need for the Apostle to write the beginning of 1 John to people who are already Christians.

"This is what we proclaim to you: what was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we have looked at and our hands have touched (concerning the word of life— and the life was revealed, and we have seen and testify and announce to you the eternal life that was with the Father and was revealed to us). What we have seen and heard we announce to you too, so that you may have fellowship with us (and indeed our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ). Thus we are writing these things so that our joy may be complete."

So Clare, would you like me to announce the Gospel that I have seen and heard to you?

Do you have a "renewed mind".?

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