Do you have a "renewed mind".?

ViaCrucis · May 31, 2021

Sidon said:
Paul disagrees with you ViaCrucis.

Paul said that Christ sent him not to water baptize but to PREACH the Gospel.
Paul said he only preaches "Christ Crucified".

How is Paul disagreeing with me exactly? Paul was called to preach the Gospel, and part of preaching the Gospel is in the letters which he wrote to the churches--to believers.

If you don't believe that, then you undermine the very existence of the New Testament.

So, me too.

"soul winning" vs "street preaching", vs, "pulpit preaching", vs "forum preaching"...
All has the same message.
All that changes is the technique regarding the delivery of the message.

Its all "preaching".

And that doesn't change the fact that you are confusing preaching the Gospel with "soul winning" or whatever modernistic buzzword you choose to use.

Now, TEACHING is different.

Is consistently part of preaching. The word kerygma used in the sense of the proclamation of the Gospel, i.e. "preaching" is inextricably connected with teaching and discipleship. Ergo: "Preach the Gospel to all creation" and "make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit, instructing them in all that I have said" are part of the one and same ministry of the Church.

-CryptoLutheran

Clare73 · May 31, 2021

Sidon said:
Also, "tares" are not born again.
Does this mean that if a born again person, backslides, or is caught up in a cult, that they are not born again..?

If one leaves permanently, they were never born again.
Backsliders often get back on board, and those caught up in a cult sometimes leave.

See, the proof of Salvation is to be born again.
There is no other proof.
The devil's people fake christianity, often, much better then the real christians behave it.

"fruit" is not the way you discern, utterly, if someone is really born again.

I agree. . .see Matthew 7:22-23.

Clare73 · May 31, 2021

Sidon said:
Ok i already dealt with this post.

And what about my post #52?

as well as the false assumption that "Hebrews" are "christians", in this Epistle.

No false assumption. . .you are egregiously uninformed.

Paul never calls any other group, "hebrews".
He always, in all of his other epistles..... refers to the person by name in the 1st Chapter, or he refers to "the Church AT"..and names the city, in the 1st Chapter.
But in the case of unsaved Jews, he calls this epistie, "Hebrews".
This is not hard to understand, unless you have been taught falsely, and then it becomes a real issue to try to understand this epistle, as Paul intended it.
Which is what has happened to many people.

So, regarding the overall point of your post.....Let me get to core error, and just deal with that, as you asked me take another look.
The core error of it, is your idea that you can lose your salvation, as that is what is what you are trying to prove......

No, if they leave permanently, they were never saved in the first place.

The point of the post was to demonstrate the Sabbath was fulfilled in Christ, that Christians are living in full-time salvation rest from their own works to save themselves, and are not required to observe a once-a-week Sabbath rest.

I sent it to you to demonstrate that the letter to the Hebrews was to Hebrew professing Christians, not to unbelievers.

You've got too many irons in the fire to pay attention.

which is why you say we are to "make an effort" to end up in Heaven.
You refer to this as "rest".
Well, let me assure you, that the finished WORK of Jesus on the Cross, and the "work of God, which is that you believe on Jesus, whom God sent" is the only EFFORT we make, that God accepts to redeem us, using His Blood.

So, you are teaching works in place of Grace.
You are legalizing salvation by teaching it as...>"here is what a person must DO, to enter heaven".
Did you forget to post the verse that speaks about "enduring to the end"?
Did you forget that one Clare73?

So, like all who legalize salvation, you never talk about the blood of Jesus or The Cross, as these arn't a part of how you have worked out your own idea of self saving.

Clare73 · May 31, 2021

Sidon said:
In that verse, John is preaching, to them, He's not preaching to himself.
See, anytime an apostle or me or any preacher is talking to a group about their SIN, then we are not talking to the born again...and why? Because the sin of the born again, has been taken care of when Jesus became it for us on the Cross, and died. See that ??????
Try to understand that, and if you can, then you may be able to recognize the situation with John.

John doesn't call unbelievers his "dear children" (1 John 2:1, 12, 13, 28; 3:7, 18; 4:4; 5:21),

while 1 John 2:12-14, 19, 3:1; 5:13 make clear his letter was addressed to believers.

You are a wealth of misinformation
.

Sidon · Jun 1, 2021

ViaCrucis said:
It's not just blood, blood isn't magic. It's Jesus Christ,
-CryptoLutheran

There is power in the Blood, because it's God's blood.
This is why Hebrews tells you that this blood is an "eternal Sacrifice", a one time, sacriice.
And you are told, that without BLOOD, the shedding of Blood, there IS NO FORGIVENESS of your sin.
So, yeah, that blood is more then just a word......it is ETERNAL LIFE, because its all a part of HOW GOD redeems.
1. Blood
2. Death
3. Resurrection.

All of this is SALVATiON.

Sidon · Jun 1, 2021

Clare73 said:
John doesn't call unbelievers his "dear children" (1 John 2:1, 1
You are a wealth of misinformation
.

Look what you did.
You took Chapter 2, that is talking to "dear children", to try to prove your error.
Notice in 1Jn 1:9, John does not call those unbelievers, "little children".
He can't, as that term does not apply to the unbelieving who have their sin.

So, you did what all do who misuses verses. You steal the context from one to try to prove a theological error.

Your latest wrongly divided verse, is John 2:1, as proven by Chapter 3.

So, How do you know he's talking to the born again in Chapter 3, and not in 1Jn 1? Its because he says we have an Advocate.
This is Jesus "making intercession for the BORN AGAIN"".
Hebrews 9:24
"""
24 """"For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:""""

See that "FOR US">?
That is not talking to the unbelievers who are not born again. (have sin)(1 Jn 1:9)

Look at Chapter 3, where John is talking to the born again, and then go and study your verse in 1st John that SEEMs to contradict this one.
"""
1 John 3:9, "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he CANNOT SIN, because he is = born of God."

So, Clare73, your verse in 1 John, says that you have sin, you think....
Yet 1 John 3, says that the born again "can't sin" because they are born again.

What does that mean?
It means that the NEW CREATION, is SINLESS...... always.
THat is JOHN, himself in 1JN 1:9.

Now go read Romans 4:8, and discover that God does not charge the born again with sin.

Then think on all that.
Try to understand WHY "the born again cannot sin", the next time you read 1Jn that you think is talking to the Born Again.
Its not.

Sidon · Jun 1, 2021

ViaCrucis said:
Why does John use first-person plural pronouns and cases?

"That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we looked upon and have touched with our hands, concerning the word of life— the life was made manifest, and we have seen it, and testify to it and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was made manifest to us— that which we have seen and heard we proclaim also to you, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ. And we are writing these things so that our joy may be complete.

This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."

-CryptoLutheran

John says "we" in 1st Jn 1.

The same John, in Chapter 3, says......1 John 3:: "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."

The same JOHN said that the born again Can't SIN.

So, how can John when talking to one group say..>"If we say WE have no sin", and when talking to another Group, says, that they "Can't Sin".

See it now?

He's not talking to the born again, in 1st John.
If He was, he would call them "children", and he would not be telling them they have sin.

Now go to Romans 4:8 and read that God does not charge the born again with sin.

When you understand why, then you will understand the Blood Atonement, as the Grace of God.
And once you understand this, and BELIEVE IT, then your mind is renewed.
Not until.

Sidon · Jun 1, 2021

ViaCrucis said:
How is Paul disagreeing with me exactly? Paul was called to preach the Gospel, and part of preaching the Gospel is in the letters which he wrote to the churches--to believers.
Is consistently part of preaching. The word kerygma

-CryptoLutheran

2 things.
Until you speak Greek, do not use it as your argument, as you are using what someone wrote that it means, as the definition.
You can't prove they are correct, as you dont speak greek fluently.

also, the Epistles are doctrine, correction, reproof, ...lots of things, and sometimes Paul is preaching to the lost JEWs.
Thats Hebrews, in some verses.

Sidon · Jun 1, 2021

Clare73 said:
If one leaves permanently, they were never born again.

You can't leave what you never were.
These people were never born again.
They are "religious but lost".
Jesus says of this fakir, this pretender, this, religious church goer, this water baptized but never born again....."depart from me, i never KNEW YOU">

To "know us", is for Christ to live in us.
He does not live in whom He does not "know'.
To "know" God, is to become "One with God, and Christ".

This is the "new birth".

Jesus said, 'you MUST be born again".
If you are, then God knows you.
If not, then not.

Sidon · Jun 1, 2021

Clare73 said:
The point of the post was to demonstrate the Sabbath was fulfilled in Christ, that Christians are living in full-time salvation rest from their own works to save themselves,.

Clare73, you are describing how to live as "unity of mind", regarding all believers.
That is how it should be.
But do you see 40,000 denominations?
That is the reality.
That is what happens when there is no AGREEMENT regarding the main thing that produces UNITY of MIND, among brethren.

Its the misunderstanding of "SALVATION".

Most think its temporary, and can be lost, and that its their responsibility to keep it, which denies that the Blood of Jesus keeps it eternal and secure.
Those who understand why it can't be lost, have the renewed mind, regarding that understanding.
Most believers do not. = no UNITY of "mind".

ViaCrucis · Jun 1, 2021

Sidon said:
There is power in the Blood, because it's God's blood.
This is why Hebrews tells you that this blood is an "eternal Sacrifice", a one time, sacriice.
And you are told, that without BLOOD, the shedding of Blood, there IS NO FORGIVENESS of your sin.
So, yeah, that blood is more then just a word......it is ETERNAL LIFE, because its all a part of HOW GOD redeems.
1. Blood
2. Death
3. Resurrection.

All of this is SALVATiON.

Yeah, it's Christ-God's blood, that's why there is power in the blood--because it's Jesus' blood, His sacrifice, His death.

It's the very same blood we receive in, with, and under (as the Lutheran Confessions word it) the wine of the Holy Eucharist.

-CryptoLutheran

ViaCrucis · Jun 1, 2021

Sidon said:
John says "we" in 1st Jn 1.

The same John, in Chapter 3, says......1 John 3:: "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."

The same JOHN said that the born again Can't SIN.

So, how can John when talking to one group say..>"If we say WE have no sin", and when talking to another Group, says, that they "Can't Sin".

See it now?

He's not talking to the born again, in 1st John.
If He was, he would call them "children", and he would not be telling them they have sin.

Now go to Romans 4:8 and read that God does not charge the born again with sin.

When you understand why, then you will understand the Blood Atonement, as the Grace of God.
And once you understand this, and BELIEVE IT, then your mind is renewed.
Not until.

St. John is writing to the Faithful.

Now it is incumbent upon you to understand what John means, rather than simply dismissing and rejecting what John says because it does not align with your peculiar doctrines.

-CryptoLutheran

Clare73 · Jun 1, 2021

Sidon said:
Look what you did.
You took Chapter 2, that is talking to "dear children", to try to prove your error.

Woefully uninformed, employing dispensational malpractice--dividing and duplicating things which are the same. . .and much too taken up with one's own human fancies.

It's a letter to the churches, not an open sermon to a crowd of unbelievers.
The letter deals with one of the most dangerous heresies of the first two centuries of the Church--Gnosticism, which taught that matter was inherently evil, meaning the body was to be treated harshly, while at the same time was exceedingly licentious because, since matter was evil and unredeemable, it didn't matter how corrupt it became.

Notice in 1Jn 1:9, John does not call those unbelievers, "little children".
He can't, as that term does not apply to the unbelieving who have their sin.

So, you did what all do who misuses verses. You steal the context from one to try to prove a theological error.

Your latest wrongly divided verse, is John 2:1, as proven by Chapter 3.

So, How do you know he's talking to the born again in Chapter 3, and not in 1Jn 1? Its because he says we have an Advocate.
This is Jesus "making intercession for the BORN AGAIN"".
Hebrews 9:24
"""
24 """"For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:""""

See that "FOR US">?
That is not talking to the unbelievers who are not born again. (have sin)(1 Jn 1:9)

Look at Chapter 3, where John is talking to the born again, and then go and study your verse in 1st John that SEEMs to contradict this one.
"""
1 John 3:9, "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he CANNOT SIN, because he is = born of God."

So, Clare73, your verse in 1 John, says that you have sin, you think....
Yet 1 John 3, says that the born again "can't sin" because they are born again.

What does that mean?
It means that the NEW CREATION, is SINLESS...... always.
THat is JOHN, himself in 1JN 1:9.

Now go read Romans 4:8, and discover that God does not charge the born again with sin.

Then think on all that.
Try to understand WHY "the born again cannot sin", the next time you read 1Jn that you think is talking to the Born Again.
Its not.

Clare73 · Jun 1, 2021

Sidon said:
You can't leave what you never were.

You can leave the Christian fellowship and your profession of faith, neither of which necessasrily mean you were born again.

people were never born again.
They are "religious but lost".
Jesus says of this fakir, this pretender, this, religious church goer, this water baptized but never born again....."depart from me, i never KNEW YOU">

To "know us", is for Christ to live in us.
He does not live in whom He does not "know'.
To "know" God, is to become "One with God, and Christ".

This is the "new birth".

Jesus said, 'you MUST be born again".
If you are, then God knows you.
If not, then not.

ViaCrucis · Jun 1, 2021

Sidon said:
Paul is preaching to the lost JEWs.
Thats Hebrews, in some verses.

I'm ignoring your protest to my bringing up a Greek word because it's a distraction. But to address this point:

1) St. Paul didn't write the Epistle to the Hebrews, we have no idea who the author of the epistle is, it is anonymous.

2) It was addressed to Jewish Christians. If it weren't, then the entire epistle makes no sense. The content of the letter indicates that the author of the epistle is deeply concerned with Jewish Christians forfeiting their Christianity and returning back to Judaism. Probably written in the 6th decade of the 1st century, under the reign of Nero, when Christians were being rounded up and persecuted, as Nero had placed the blame of the fire on the Christians. We read that Nero had Christians hung up, covered in tar, and lit on fire to light his imperial garden at night.

-CryptoLutheran

Clare73 · Jun 1, 2021

Sidon said:
Clare73, you are describing how to live as "unity of mind", regarding all believers.
That is how it should be. But do you see 40,000 denominations?
That is the reality.
That is what happens when there is no AGREEMENT regarding the main thing that produces UNITY of MIND, among brethren.
Its the misunderstanding of "SALVATION".

It is more than that, including misunderstanding of the necessity of sanctifiction.

"Without holiness, no one will see the Lord." (Hebrews 12:14)

Most think its temporary, and can be lost, and that its their responsibility to keep it, which denies that the Blood of Jesus keeps it eternal and secure.
Those who understand why it can't be lost, have the renewed mind, regarding that understanding.
Most believers do not. = no UNITY of "mind".

Sidon · Jun 2, 2021

Clare73 said:
Woefully uninformed, employing dispensational malpractice--dividing and duplicating things which are the same. . .and much too taken up with one's own human fancies.
It's a letter to the churches, not an open sermon to a crowd of unbelievers.
The letter deals with one of the most dangerous heresies of the first two centuries of the Church--Gnosticism, which taught that matter was inherently evil, meaning the body was to be treated harshly, while at the same time was exceedingly licentious because, since matter was evil and unredeemable, it didn't matter how corrupt it became.

John addresses the born again as "Children." "little ones", ect.
In 1 Jn 1:9 he doesn't.
In Chapter 2, 3, others, he does.
So, there is a reason for that, and so, there is the confusion found that many have.. regarding 1 John 1:9
These verses get wrongly divided and this stumbles some.
This isn't "dispensation" teaching to understand this distinction between John simply preaching to the lost vs teaching the born again.
He, just like Paul in "Hebrews", does both.

Here is something else to consider.
If a person has "sin" they are hell bound, they are lost..... they are not born again.
No one goes to heaven who "has" sin.
Lucifer was cast out of heaven because sin was found in him.
We go to heaven because Jesus has dealt with our sin., He became it, and died.
Why are people in hell today? Its because Jesus didn't deal with theirs.

Some Questions readers...

Does Christ have sin now?
Is He a sinner?
So, is there any sin found ''"""In Christ""""?
Are the born again "in Christ"?
Can we have SIN, and be "in Christ?
Can we have SIN, and be "ONE with God In Christ"?
Can we have SIN, and be "'"""As Jesus IS, so are the born again, in this world"?
Can we have SIN, and be "seated in heavenly places In Christ".
Can we have SIN, and be "The Temple of the Holy Spirit"?

A.) NEVER

Let me show you where the deception came in that is theological malpractice that most believers are committing against the Cross, and against the Grace of God.
See, to be against the Cross is to contradict the Grace of God.
A believer does this, when they have "fallen from Grace'"
To do this, is to leave faith in Christ to keep you saved and to instead commit to trying to keep yourself saved by self deeds. SELF DEEDS INCLUDE confessing sin.
Thats a "work".
So, being that person, in that broken faith, is how you faell FROM Grace, and into LEGALISM.
Legalism is simply to try to STAY SAVED, by doing something or not doing something.
And all that is the person having trust in SELF effort, vs, trusting in Christ alone to keep you saved.

Where does this start? It often starts when someone tells you, teaches you, that God started your salvation, and then you keep it by confessing sin.
Often it begins with a wrong understanding of "work out your salvation", where a person is taught this means.>"keep yourself saved by DEEDS, works, sin confession", or anything else you try to do, that is not simply trusting in Christ instead, as you should.

Christ Keeping you saved, this is the Blood Atonement, which is the Grace of God, and when you no longer trust that GRACE, you have "fallen from THAT GRACE", into "here is what i do" in place of Trusting "Here is what CHRIST did for me"..
See that?
= "fallen from Grace".
See, its this corrupted faith that believes that you keep yourself clean and saved, by confessing sin, and as long as you confess, then God keeps on saving you.
So, what has happened is that the confession of sin, is now your savior, as the person is trusting..... that as long as they do THAT...... they keep themselves saved.
= "fallen from Grace".

Those who are really lost inside this broken faith, will argue that when you sin, you are lost again, and when you confess, God gives salvation back to you.
So, its lost, saved again, lost, saved again..
= "fallen from GRACE" theology.

Sidon · Jun 2, 2021

Clare73 said:
You can leave the Christian fellowship and your profession of faith, neither of which necessasrily mean you were born again.

Yes.

You can be water baptized and confirmed and all you are is religious but lost.
You can be preaching in a pulpit, seminary trained, and yet, religious but lost.
A person might be the one who never misses a Sunday in 40 yrs, until the day they die and end up wide eyed in hell wondering why all their effort didnt get them into heaven.
A.) ?
Jesus said.>>"you must be BORN AGAIN".

Can you be born again, and be worldly?
Of course.
Demas was born again, Mark was born again.
Both left the ministry, and Mark was used decades later by Paul.
Both were saved, but only Mark came back, after a long time away.

"but didnt that leaving cause them to be lost"
Of course not.
Why? Because Jesus said..."i will never you or forsake you"...and HE keeps you saved, not you.

Can a person speak christianese fluently, and teach Sunday School and not be born again?
It happens all the time.

The verse that shows us.... " Depart from me, i never knew you", ..... is talking about people who were very religious, but not born again.
The " never knew you", in that verse, means that Christ never lived IN THEM.
God "knows you", when you are "ONE WITH GOD, IN Christ"
God knows you when you become a "SON of God".
To be "known" of God, is for God to be in you, because you are become "the temple of the Holy Spirit".
God "knows" all who are become HIS, as they are "blood bought", and have become a "new Creation".

Sidon · Jun 2, 2021

ViaCrucis said:
I'm ignoring your protest to my bringing up a Greek word because it's a distraction. But to address this point:
1) St. Paul didn't write the Epistle to the Hebrews, we have no idea who the author of the epistle is, it is anonymous.
2) It was addressed to Jewish Christians.

Ignoring what you choose not to accept, doesn't make what you believe, valid or correct.

Also, Paul certainly wrote Hebrews.
If you think he didnt, then that is because you are not familiar with Acts 28, and neither is the person who misled you from a pulpit, from a commentary, or from a "study bible" that is trash, and there are many of these available.

Acts 28, is Paul doing the same exact thing, He did in Hebrews 10.
He's dealing with (preaching the Gospel to)....= unsaved, Christ rejecting hateful Hebrews (Jews).
The difference is, in Acts 28, he gave up, and told them...>"im done, im taking the Gospel to the Gentiles, as they will BELIEVE IT".

Sidon · Jun 2, 2021

Clare73 said:
It is more than that, including misunderstanding of the necessity of sanctifiction.
"Without holiness, no one will see the Lord." (Hebrews 12:14)

Jesus is the only holiness that God accepts.
All self effort need not apply.

Consider that its the Blood of Christ that is the only holiness that "God Sees", because its the only that HE OFFERS.
He certainly does not see our "works" as our holiness.
If He did then Christ didnt need to die on a Cross so that God can accept HIS Righteousness on our behalf.

Its interesting that some believers think that the very same "good deeds" you can do, as an unbeliever, that God rejects as "filthy rags", now have merit after they are saved, as if this is their holiness.

The reality is.....the only righteousness, which is true holiness, that is available that God accepts, is His own.
This is why the born again have become "the righteousness OF GOD>.....In Christ".
We dont have any righteousness of ourselves.
Not ever.
This is why we are "made Righteous" by the blood of Jesus.
This is all of God, and none of us, which explains why God offers it through the Blood of Jesus as "The GIFT of Righteousness".
IF we dont have this Gift as our Sanctification/Holiness/Righteousness, then we are not holy. We are in fact not born again.

Do you have a "renewed mind".?

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