Do you guys and gals mind if I stick around here for a while?

[No Swansong]

I'm highly dissatisfied with Anglicanism, Old Catholicism is not Evangelical enough for me and although I sympathize with both the Fundamentalists and the Reformed my understanding of Sola Scriptura doesn't seem to fit either of theirs. I am fairly familiar with Lutheranism and have been reading a great deal Lutheran literature and Theology lately. And quite honestly I'm just tired. I'm having issues over womens ordination and the nature of the sacraments/ordinances.

 

[DaRev]

I'm having issues over womens ordination and the nature of the sacraments/ordinances.

What are your issues and we'll try to 'splain.

 

[Studeclunker]

Better be careful in this neighborhood, Bud!

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

I'm highly dissatisfied with Anglicanism, Old Catholicism is not Evangelical enough for me and although I sympathize with both the Fundamentalists and the Reformed my understanding of Sola Scriptura doesn't seem to fit either of theirs. I am fairly familiar with Lutheranism and have been reading a great deal Lutheran literature and Theology lately. And quite honestly I'm just tired. I'm having issues over womens ordination and the nature of the sacraments/ordinances.

Welcome NS,

Glad you have dropped in.

What exactly have you been reading; there is so much out there!

Mark

 

[seajoy]

Welcome to our forum. Ask lots of questions - we like that.

 

[WildStrawberry]

Hi! Welcome! Questions are awesome! We LIKE questions!

And the *cough cough* real *cough cough* Lutheran synods DON'T advocate for Women's ordination! (I swares!)

Kae

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Hi! Welcome! Questions are awesome! We LIKE questions!

And the *cough cough* real *cough cough* Lutheran synods DON'T advocate for Women's ordination! (I swares!)

Kae

Preach it Sister!...Oh wait, you are'nt allowed

 

[joyfulthanks]

Great to see you, No Swansong!

I don't know if you'll remember me, but I used to post as contriteheart when I was hanging around STR. I mailed you a book once.

It's ironic you dropped in, because I just emailed someone info about you a few minutes ago. My BIL is thinking about attending a Reformed Episcopal Church, and I told him that you and Cola are (or used to be) REC, and might be able to give him insight that he wouldn't find on the denominational website. I hope you don't mind.

Becoming a Lutheran has been one of the best things that ever happened to me. That's why I changed my username. I hope you will feel welcome here, and that God will continue to lead and guide you.

 

[Studeclunker]

Hi! Welcome! Questions are awesome! We LIKE questions!

And the *cough cough* real *cough cough* Lutheran synods DON'T advocate for Women's ordination! (I swares!)

Kae

Preach it Sister!...Oh wait, you are'nt allowed

LOL! One thing you'll find about Lutherans, Swansong, is that we take theology and doctrine with deadly seriousness. We also like to make jokes about our sillynesses and shortcomings.

Joy, I know I've said this before, but... I love that quotation of Lewis.

 

[joyfulthanks]

Joy, I know I've said this before, but... I love that quotation of Lewis.

Thanks, Stude.

 

[No Swansong]

What are your issues and we'll try to 'splain.

Well lately I have found myself arguing for the ordination of women, yet even while arguing I find that I have more questions than answers concerning the issue. Maybe we can start with that one.

 

[No Swansong]

Better be careful in this neighborhood, Bud!

Ok anyone who likes Oscar is ok in my book.

 

[No Swansong]

Welcome NS,

Glad you have dropped in.

What exactly have you been reading; there is so much out there!

Mark

Well I started with TableTalk that led to the Small Catechism and now looking for a good deal on the Greater Catechism.

I also read a systematic Theology recently but I will have to find it as I don't remember who the author was.

 

[No Swansong]

Great to see you, No Swansong!

I don't know if you'll remember me, but I used to post as contriteheart when I was hanging around STR. I mailed you a book once.

It's ironic you dropped in, because I just emailed someone info about you a few minutes ago. My BIL is thinking about attending a Reformed Episcopal Church, and I told him that you and Cola are (or used to be) REC, and might be able to give him insight that he wouldn't find on the denominational website. I hope you don't mind.

Becoming a Lutheran has been one of the best things that ever happened to me. That's why I changed my username. I hope you will feel welcome here, and that God will continue to lead and guide you.

Of course I remember you my friend. I still have the book. It's primarily what brought the subject back up to me. LOL I will answer any questions I can about the REC but our Parish folded (against our will I would add) about 5 years ago now and there have been monumental changes in the REC since. They are almost unrecognizable to the old guard anymore.

 

[DaRev]

Well lately I have found myself arguing for the ordination of women, yet even while arguing I find that I have more questions than answers concerning the issue. Maybe we can start with that one.

First off, we must always keep in mind that the pastoral office is the only divinely instituted office in the Church. It is God who calls those who carry out its functions.

We need to define what the role and responsibility of the pastor is in relationship to the Church. To do this we need to go back to Genesis.
In Genesis 1 and 2, God created human beings male and female. Prior to the Fall, the only difference between male and female was anatomy. They had the same role and responsibility, and even the same name - Adam (which is the Hebrew word for 'human being'). After the Fall, God gave different roles and responsibilities to man and woman. The woman was told that she would bear children in pain. This gives her the role of life-bearer and nurturer. She is also told that her desire would be for her husband and that he would 'rule over her'. This is very often misinterpreted to mean a 'master-slave' relationship. This is not the case at all. Her desire is to allow her husband to do his God-given responsibility. The man was told by God 'by the sweat of your brow will you eat of the field'. This gives him the role of provider. He is to work to provide for his wife and family. St. Paul expands on this in Ephesians 5 where he says that wives should love their husbands and submit to them as the Church does to Christ. Again, this is not a master-slave relationship. Paul tells husbands to love their wives 'as Christ loved the Church'. Christ gave His life for the Church. Thus the husband is also the protector of his wife and family along with being the provider. Jesus said, "I have come not to be served, but to serve." Since Christ is the bridegroom (husband) of His bride the Church (wife), likewise the husband is the servant of his wife and family, providing and protecting and giving of himself, even his very life, for his wife and family.

The relationship of husband and wife is the same as that between Christ (bridegroom) and the Church (bride). When a pastor is carrying out those specific functions of the pastoral office, he is working and speaking and acting in the stead of and by the authority of Christ. He is carrying out the functions of the 'bridegroom', the husband. Just as Christ, the bridegroom/husband of the Church, is the servant of the Church in that role, so too is the pastor the servant of the Church when carrying out those functions that Christ has given the pastoral office to do by His authority. The pastor works and acts and speaks in the stead of Christ, the bridegroom/husband.

God has not called women to be husbands. He has not called them to be servants. God has called and ordained men to those roles. Thus God has called men to fill the office of the pastoral ministry since they are speaking and acting in the stead of the bridegroom/husband of the Church. For a woman to be placed in that role not only goes against God's will, it in effect feminizes the role of the 'bridegroom' and thus feminizes Christ.

 

[Studeclunker]

Very interesting post Reverend. It's also interesting that in the ELCA, where women are ordained, they often refer to God as genderless and sometimes as "She,".

 

[DaRev]

Very interesting post Reverend. It's also interesting that in the ELCA, where women are ordained, they often refer to God as genderless and sometimes as "She,".

But what word does the Bible use to describe God? Father.
Shows how much they pay attention to Scripture.

 

[Zecryphon]

Well lately I have found myself arguing for the ordination of women, yet even while arguing I find that I have more questions than answers concerning the issue. Maybe we can start with that one.

Hi, welcome to the forum. Sure you can stick around. We love new people in here.

Just out of curiosity, and if you're answered this already forgive me, I haven't read through the whole thread yet. But on what scriptural grounds are you basing your support of women's ordination?

 

[Zecryphon]

Well I started with TableTalk that led to the Small Catechism and now looking for a good deal on the Greater Catechism.

I also read a systematic Theology recently but I will have to find it as I don't remember who the author was.

You should look into buying a copy of the Book of Concord. That book will have everything you need in it. You can buy one at Concordia Publishing House's website: www.cph.org I think it is.

 

[Studeclunker]

You should look into buying a copy of the Book of Concord. That book will have everything you need in it. You can buy one at Concordia Publishing House's website: www.cph.org I think it is.

Yeah, and cheap-skates like me buy them used on Amazon for less than twenty bucks (including shipping)! I found two copies that were 'used' and still in new condition. Though to be honest, I'd love to sneak into a Concordia University book store and buy a used copy there. I loved the used books at the college book store. All the good stuff was already highlighted and the notes in the margins were usually superb! When I was in college it usually took me three or four days to get my books as I always perused them first. It was even better when the previous owner(s) entered their instuctor on the flyleaf. One year, the notes in the margins even had details that had to do with the instructor. Hilarious reading including small illustrations!