...Do you even believe in Evolution in the first palce?

[AV1611VET]

What allegiance? Satan doesn't exist; we are a part of nature, you can't avoid that, it's a healthy thing; and I see more self-love in creationists than any other group I've ever come across. So what is this allegiance you are talking about?

Nevermind.

 

[Mr Strawberry]

No one's.

Jesus was born of a virgin, and thus bypassed having a sin nature.

Else He, too, would be in need of a Saviour.

So who judged whether Jesus had successfully paid the price for humanity's sins?

 

[Mr Strawberry]

Nevermind.

It's a simple question.

 

[Loudmouth]

gravity science and atoms are not wisdom - your reply was in reference to - "the wisdom of this world is foolishness to God ..."

but you also will only see that which you have determined in your heart to see.

You are projecting. Just because you refuse to look at the evidence, or change your mind if the evidence demands it, does not mean that everyone else is the same.

 

[Loudmouth]

but i honestly deny that atheism is truth

How can that be an honest assessment when you have already admitted that you will never change your mind even if all of the evidence is against you?

the point i made was that .. people will only ever see what they have determined in their heart to see .

You are describing yourself and pretending that everyone else is the same as you. That isn't the case.

 

[AV1611VET]

So who judged whether Jesus had successfully paid the price for humanity's sins?

The Resurrection shows us that ... had one little sin not been atoned for ... Jesus would still be in the grave.

 

[bhsmte]

The Resurrection shows us that ... had one little sin not been atoned for ... Jesus would still be in the grave.

You are making a huge assumption that a resurrection actually happened and that is a giant leap, with zero credible evidence.

 

[Mr Strawberry]

The Resurrection shows us that ... had one little sin not been atoned for ... Jesus would still be in the grave.

That is not what I asked. Who judged whether Jesus had successfully paid the price for humanity's sins. Who? Who was it?

 

[AV1611VET]

You are making a huge assumption that a resurrection actually happened and that is a giant leap,

... of faith?

 

[bhsmte]

... of faith?

Yep, that is what it based on - faith.

 

[AV1611VET]

That is not what I asked. Who judged whether Jesus had successfully paid the price for humanity's sins. Who? Who was it?

Right now it looks like you are.

 

[Mr Strawberry]

Right now it looks like you are.

Why is this question causing you difficulty? You are avoiding it like the plague. Who judged if Jesus had successfully paid the price for humanity's sins?

 

[Heissonear]

Why is this question causing you difficulty? You are avoiding it like the plague. Who judged if Jesus had successfully paid the price for humanity's sins?

High probability you don't really want to know the answer to help move your inner self closer to the Source of higher life in our midst.

 

[Mr Strawberry]

High probability you don't really want to know the answer to help move your inner self closer to the Source of higher life in our midst.

As none of you appear to have a clue who was supposed to be impressed by Jesus dying, it would seem hypothetical.

 

[TLK Valentine]

The Resurrection shows us that ... had one little sin not been atoned for ... Jesus would still be in the grave.

How so? Resurrection is a parlor trick for gods, no matter what else they accomplish.

 

[KWCrazy]

There is a certain "logic" to say that god created his Adam, the trees etc mature. After all, on the 7th day god rested, he didn't change Adam's diapers.

Add to that the nasty little fact that Adam walked and spoke with God on the day of his creation; a feat of which not many babies can boast.

But it is a stretch from mature Aadam and trees to maturity for the entire planet --and hence the Universe as a whole.

Not really. The sun, moon and stars were created on day four. The stars were created in part to light the earth and in part to tell seasons. This means that the light from those stars was also here on day one.

There were trees and grasses, which means that there was dirt. Dirt requires the erosion of rock, which hadn't happened since it hadn't rained. There is nothing to suggest that anything created was any different than it is today. In other words, if it takes an oak tree 100 years to mature and God created a mature oak, then we would see a 100 year old tree appear. Would it have 100 rings? I believe so. He created what a mature tree is.

So the atheist then accuses God of dishonesty, but how can God be dishonest when He explained step by step how He creted the universe? When man insists that God's creation doesn't fit with his own idea of how things must have happened and he holds that up as proof of God's deceit, then man proves Psalms 14:1 to be absolutely infallibly true.

When we see the Earth, we see a continious of history.

False. We only INTERPRET. We witness nothing of the kind.

From different Ice Ages, 5 major extinctions, the many layers forming the Deccan Traps, ver old coral reefs, the magnetic reversals in the ocean floor etc.

None of which have we witnessed. The difference is that God is real and CAN BE witnessed, as many have attested including members of this forum.

The timeline of planet Earth is full of this kind of events, distributed over the 4.6 billions of years the Earth existed.

If the earth was 4.6 billion years old, why is oil under pressure? Pressure constantly dissipates over time because it gets lost through the fissures in the rocks. If you take the pressure readings we find in deep oil deposits, calculate the rate of pressure seepage and multiply by 4.6 billion years, the pressure would have blown this planet apart.

That's just one of many facts that make an old earth improbable. Another is the rate of decay of the sun. If the sun is converting hydrogen to helium at a constant rate and you go back a few billion years, the earth would have been cooked and sucked into the sun's gravity. All things are deteriorating, incuding our orbit around the sun.

Other things make an old earth questionable. Why does a trillobyte have complex DNA? If larger animals reproduce at a much smaller rate than smaller animals and fruit flies didn't evolve after tens of thousands of generations under constant radioactive bombardment, how could a dinosaur evolve under natural pressures? There are many facts that fly in the face of an old earth. You simply choose to ignore them.

And the "logic" that could be applied for a mature Adam is not applicable for these events.

Says whom? How do you know you are interpreting the events correctly? Understand, God is timeless. He could experiment with something for a billion years and create it in an instant. Human minds cannot understand how the mind of God functions.

To take just one example: Supernova 1987A. The star exploded approximately 170 000 years ago, the light of the explosion reached us just in 1987. So did create god "light in transit" from a not existing star? If yes, for what purpose?

Circular reasoning. You're using the speed of light in transit to date something and then asking how come we just saw something that happened 170,000 years ago. The Bible doesn't mention deep space. It mentions that there are "worlds without end," but there isn't any definition of what that means. Perhaps we weren't intended to know. There's nothing wrong with exploring the world around us. The problem occurs when we use out theories to disavow our Creator.

There is no "need" for all these events to make the Genesis story believable.

Then why don't you believe it?

And there is no logical extrapolation from a "mature Adam" to a mature Universe. So your point is ver weak.

There is no mention of a single thing in creation that was created in its immature state. Even the stars were created with their light shining on the earth at night.

But obviously, the writers of Genesis were unaware of all this.

Moses wrote Genesis. God dictated it.

They just described what they saw in their immediate environment. Unable to take into account geological features in India or atb the bottom of the ocean.

Jesus Christ verified the Scriptures and God Himself wrote on stone tablets that He created the earth in six days and rested on the seventh,

Gensis is not the word of any god, it is humanity's work

Unsupported assertion. If Jesus Himself mentioned Adam and Eve, Noah and the Great Flood, and Jonah spending three days in the belly of a "great fish" then you say none of the above happened, who should a Christian believe?

 

[bhsmte]

Add to that the nasty little fact that Adam walked and spoke with God on the day of his creation; a feat of which not many babies can boast.

Not really. The sun, moon and stars were created on day four. The stars were created in part to light the earth and in part to tell seasons. This means that the light from those stars was also here on day one.

There were trees and grasses, which means that there was dirt. Dirt requires the erosion of rock, which hadn't happened since it hadn't rained. There is nothing to suggest that anything created was any different than it is today. In other words, if it takes an oak tree 100 years to mature and God created a mature oak, then we would see a 100 year old tree appear. Would it have 100 rings? I believe so. He created what a mature tree is.

So the atheist then accuses God of dishonesty, but how can God be dishonest when He explained step by step how He creted the universe? When man insists that God's creation doesn't fit with his own idea of how things must have happened and he holds that up as proof of God's deceit, then man proves Psalms 14:1 to be absolutely infallibly true.


False. We only INTERPRET. We witness nothing of the kind.

None of which have we witnessed. The difference is that God is real and CAN BE witnessed, as many have attested including members of this forum.

If the earth was 4.6 billion years old, why is oil under pressure? Pressure constantly dissipates over time because it gets lost through the fissures in the rocks. If you take the pressure readings we find in deep oil deposits, calculate the rate of pressure seepage and multiply by 4.6 billion years, the pressure would have blown this planet apart.

That's just one of many facts that make an old earth improbable. Another is the rate of decay of the sun. If the sun is converting hydrogen to helium at a constant rate and you go back a few billion years, the earth would have been cooked and sucked into the sun's gravity. All things are deteriorating, incuding our orbit around the sun.

Other things make an old earth questionable. Why does a trillobyte have complex DNA? If larger animals reproduce at a much smaller rate than smaller animals and fruit flies didn't evolve after tens of thousands of generations under constant radioactive bombardment, how could a dinosaur evolve under natural pressures? There are many facts that fly in the face of an old earth. You simply choose to ignore them.

Says whom? How do you know you are interpreting the events correctly? Understand, God is timeless. He could experiment with something for a billion years and create it in an instant. Human minds cannot understand how the mind of God functions.


Circular reasoning. You're using the speed of light in transit to date something and then asking how come we just saw something that happened 170,000 years ago. The Bible doesn't mention deep space. It mentions that there are "worlds without end," but there isn't any definition of what that means. Perhaps we weren't intended to know. There's nothing wrong with exploring the world around us. The problem occurs when we use out theories to disavow our Creator.

Then why don't you believe it?

There is no mention of a single thing in creation that was created in its immature state. Even the stars were created with their light shining on the earth at night.

Moses wrote Genesis. God dictated it.

Jesus Christ verified the Scriptures and God Himself wrote on stone tablets that He created the earth in six days and rested on the seventh,

Unsupported assertion. If Jesus Himself mentioned Adam and Eve, Noah and the Great Flood, and Jonah spending three days in the belly of a "great fish" then you say none of the above happened, who should a Christian believe?

Unsupported assertion. If Jesus Himself mentioned Adam and Eve, Noah and the Great Flood, and Jonah spending three days in the belly of a "great fish" then you say none of the above happened, who should a Christian believe?

Are you actually claiming that because it states this in the bible, that it shows evidence that it actually happened?

Thank you anyway, but your opinion has been soundly rejected without credible evidence.

 

[HitchSlap]

Add to that the nasty little fact that Adam walked and spoke with God on the day of his creation; a feat of which not many babies can boast.

How could you even know this to be true?

 

[KWCrazy]

As none of you appear to have a clue who was supposed to be impressed by Jesus dying, it would seem hypothetical.

I think an eight year old could answer this question.

The wages of sin are death. Forgiveness requires a sacrifice. Under the law, it was a perfect lamb or other such animal without blemish which had value. Sacrificing it deprived the sinner of wealth. It cost him something. The sacrifice showed obedience to God. Jesus was the lamb of God. He became the sacrifice for mankind. The person who denies Christ makes His death meaningless. And you wonder why God damns those who reject Him? It's never been easier to go to heaven. You aren't even in the Middle East, where belief in Christ can get you tortured and killed. Through faith, salvation must be earned. Damnation has already been earned.

 

[KWCrazy]

Are you actually claiming that because it states this in the bible, that it shows evidence that it actually happened?

Because God said it, I need no further evidence.

Unlike you, I've encountered God. I've eaten with Him. I've been to His house. I read His book. I know His son. His Holy Spirit is with me. I've witnessed things science would claim to be impossible. What began with faith has been re-affirmed so many times I absolutely KNOW that God is real and that the Bible is His word.

You who deny Him really don't even have the slightest clue what you're talking about.