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...Do you even believe in Evolution in the first palce?

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EnemyOfReason

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Evolutionary steps are the events which lead to a better and superior species as without it no living creature can adapt. All ancestral species of animals have adapted to some extent over the millions of years of their first form.


Also define prophet for me. As I said earlier, I believe in prophets but not int he way that you view them. Your analogy is flawed beyond comprehension because it would equate that I entirely reject an institution when I have only rejected the unsubstantiated etymology and definement of it.
 
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TLK Valentine

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If God created man, as He states that He did, how is the belief in "evolutionary steps to reach mankind" anything but an exercise in foolishness?

because it's an effort to understand the process God used.
 
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AV1611VET

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Immediate Creationism is by far the most simplistic theory about the origin of life and to some extent is a cop out(no offense to anyone). There is no study involved in it.
If you think it's so easy, I invite you to walk a mile in my shoes.

Yes ... it is so easy a child can understand it; but just like weight occurs when gravity is resisted, the "weight of creationism" occurs when immediate creationism is resisted.
 
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KWCrazy

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Evolutionary steps are the events which lead to a better and superior species as without it no living creature can adapt. All ancestral species of animals have adapted to some extent over the millions of years of their first form.
The problem with your reasoning is that we haven't been here billions of years. Even the Qu'ran teaches that.

The Koran, if one interprets it literally, teaches a six-day creation. Adam and Eve were created in innocent perfection and placed in a beautiful garden. Here Satan tempted them to rebel against God by eating the forbidden fruit, thus incurring God's wrath and judgment, and expulsion from the Garden.

The wicked pre-flood civilization is described at length. Eventually, Noah is told to build the Ark; and from its passengers the entire world has been repopulated. The description of the flood closely resembles the Biblical description, with vast rainfall, eruptions, and earthquakes. As to the age of the earth, again a straightforward reading implies a creation of all things a few thousand years ago—no room for billions of years of evolution.
source
Also define prophet for me.
Gladly. The Bible shows us how to tell a true prophet from a false prophet. I'll let you determine if your prophet fits these characteristics.

1) What does this teacher say about Jesus? In Matthew 16:15-16, Jesus asks, “Who do you say I am?” Peter answers, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God,” and for this answer Peter is called “blessed.” In 2 John 9, we read, “Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.” In other words, Jesus Christ and His work of redemption is of utmost importance; beware of anyone who denies that Jesus is equal with God, who downplays Jesus’ sacrificial death, or who rejects Jesus’ humanity. First John 2:22 says, “Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist—he denies the Father and the Son.”

2) Does this teacher preach the gospel? The gospel is defined as the good news concerning Jesus’ death, burial, and resurrection, according to the Scriptures (
1 Corinthians 15:1-4). As nice as they sound, the statements “God loves you,” “God wants us to feed the hungry,” and “God wants you to be wealthy” are not the complete message of the gospel. As Paul warns in Galatians 1:7, “Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ.” No one, not even a great preacher, has the right to change the message that God gave us. “If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!” (Galatians 1:9).

3) Does this teacher exhibit character qualities that glorify the Lord? Speaking of false teachers,
Jude 11 says, “They have taken the way of Cain; they have rushed for profit into Balaam’s error; they have been destroyed in Korah’s rebellion.” In other words, a false teacher can be known by his pride (Cain’s rejection of God’s plan), greed (Balaam’s prophesying for money), and rebellion (Korah’s promotion of himself over Moses). Jesus said to beware of such people and that we would know them by their fruits (Matthew 7:15-20).

source

As I said earlier, I believe in prophets but not int he way that you view them.
Do you believe in them as the Bible does, or as the Qu'ran does, or do you simply make your own religion? This is not an attack, but a serious question. Most religions speak of prohets, including Christianity and Islam.
Your analogy is flawed beyond comprehension because it would equate that I entirely reject an institution when I have only rejected the unsubstantiated etymology and definement of it.
If you entirely reject what is taught by your prophet, either your "prophet" is a liar or you are lying when you claim to follow his teaching. You can't be the follower of one whose teachings you reject. Mohammed confirmed most of the Old testament and rejected most of the new. You seem to reject both the Bible and the Qu'ran. Upon what rock you you build your faith?
 
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KWCrazy

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because it's an effort to understand the process God used.
He wrote out the details in great specificity, but you refuse to acknowledge it. It would seem that if you wanted to understand God's process, you would first see what He said about it.
 
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Split Rock

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He wrote out the details in great specificity, but you refuse to acknowledge it. It would seem that if you wanted to understand God's process, you would first see what He said about it.

"He" wrote nothing in the bible... even the bible itself does not make such a claim. The bible is a work of Man.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Originally Posted by TheImmaculateSlaveOfGod

Hahaha. I reject creationism yet ironically I do understand it as I was one in the past and still am.
Indeed -- creationism is actually quite simple to understand; creationists' attempts to make it more complicated is not an effort to promote knowledge, but to obfuscate it.

The plan is to keep it a "mystery" that we need their "help" to unravel.

Even the Jews that Jesus spoke to had a hard time unraveling the "mysteries/parables" that He spoke to them.

Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon

Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon
Strong's Number G3466 matches the Greek μυστήριον (mystērion), which occurs 27 times in 27 verses in the Greek concordance

Luke 8:10
And He said "unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest in parables.
That seeing they may not see, and hearing they may not understand.

Kindgdom Bible Studies Template Page


The parable of the rich man and Lazarus is without question one of the least understood of all the teachings of our Lord. What is its aim? It is a similitude of something; for all the parables are similitudes, even though, like the parables of the prodigal son, and the unjust steward, both of which are in direct connection with this one, they are uttered like simple narratives, always beginning with, "A certain man," or "There was a certain man." Of what, then, is this parable the similitude? Whom does the rich man represent? Who is the poor neglected beggar full of sores, lying at the rich man's gate? This story was never intended to be Jesus' belief and teaching on heaven and hell, but Jesus was holding up to ridicule all the teaching and spirit of the Pharisees and scribes and doctors of the law.

Fleetwood Mac hypnotized - YouTube



.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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AV1611VET

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Even the Jews that Jesus spoke to had a hard time unraveling the "mysteries/parables" that He spoke to them.
These guys like to boast how easy creationism is to understand; but in reality, they demonstrate just the opposite.

It's unfortunate they aren't mature enough to admit it; but have to cover their ignorance up by ridiculing the messenger.

They think their science is good enough to explain God away, and it doesn't work; so they try and change "miracles" to "magic" ... and all that does is make them look that much more desperate.
 
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EnemyOfReason

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The problem with your reasoning is that we haven't been here billions of years. Even the Qu'ran teaches that.

I never said we have been here billions of years but if we were we would have had the proper time to evolve into a higher species or would have had enough time be be extinct . Depends on how you look at it.
Also I said "millions" not billions as I know of no animal that can trace its genetic legacy that far back.

You obviously do not understand evolution at all.


You are aware that I do not accept this concept correct? As far as I am concerned Adam and Eve were the first male and female Homo Sapiens to diverge from the era of Homo Neanderthalensis.
No such evidence to prove a young earth exist. No such evidence for a flood or Nuh exists either. These are mythological conjurations provided to establish a point placed in the Tawrat.



Irrelevant as I do not accept any claim of historicity in the Bible.

2) Does this teacher preach the gospel? The gospel is defined as the good news concerning Jesus’ death, burial, and resurrection, according to the Scriptures (


Muhammad didnot preach the Gospel, he taught his perceived form of it and did so to remove any errant teaching in it which wean't against Tawhid/Monotheism.

3) Does this teacher exhibit character qualities that glorify the Lord? Speaking of false teachers,

Does not matter. In the Bible Saul is ordered to commit and act of genocide, as is Moses and these acts appear in accordance to Yahweh. To say Muhammad has taken a low ground is quite an understatement of events.

Do you believe in them as the Bible does, or as the Qu'ran does, or do you simply make your own religion? This is not an attack, but a serious question. Most religions speak of prohets, including Christianity and Islam.

I believe in what common sense and proven evidence provides. If anything disproves the Bible or Qur'an it must be rejected. No holy-book is perfect and they are the constructs of both wise men and foolish men. The Bible, Qur'an, Bhagvad Gita and various other texts have existed because they were written by very wise men and constructed in form of eloquence.
They are insightful and should face just as much criticism as a scientist who makes a hypothesis which is later proven to be false.
I cannot validate everything the Qur'an says as there is no proof of it but I can still salvage what I know of it and study the rest until the very day I die. Reason comes before religion and religion itself is a man-made construct. Christianity and Islam are both religions constructed by men around the textual statements of a book or doctrine preached before the compilation's creation.
To be an adherent of Islam is to be an adherent of a man-made construct from the parts of the Qur'an as such.....

Surat al-Baqara ".... كَافَّةً يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا ادْخُلُوا فِي السِّلْمِ "

The word in red is Islaam. The very word Islam is removed from the Qur'an and used to define the religion constructed out of the Qur'an. I could easily remove a word from Homer's The Odyssey and construct my own religion but regardless of its source it is still based off a book subject to criticism and personal analysis.
I choose the faith Islam not because I am a Muslim in accordance to the mad'dhab under Sunniyyah or Shi'iayya yet alone Sufiyyah. I am a Muslim because my definition of god can be found int he Qur'an along with the perception of this being.
I can easily be compared to Ahl'e Qur'an in that my religion can be found in the Qur'an but it is not of the Qur'an.


Thomas Paine - Age of Reason......
"When I am told that the Koran was written in Heaven and brought
to Mahomet by an angel, the account comes too near the same kind of
hearsay evidence and second-hand authority as the former. I did not
see the angel myself, and, therefore, I have a right not to believe
it."

I did not witness the events Muhammad claims and I cannot validate them nor can you do such with the Bible as much of it has been invalidated. But I can agree with the teachings taught by both the Bible and the Qur'an with political ideology aside as well. The very meaning of the words I use in my Title are Zin'diq Muslem meaning Heretical Muslim. It can also designate a Free thinking man who is not bound by the constructs of an institutionalized prison that corrupts the mind and its ability to form rational conclusion based on evidence
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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I will have to study on him more, especially his views on religion

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

The Destruction Of
JERUSALEM
An Absolute and Irresistible
PROOF OF THE DIVINE ORIGIN OF
CHRISTIANITY:

"I consider the Prophecy relative to the destruction of the Jewish nation,
if there were nothing else to support Christianity, as absolutely irresistible."(Mr. Erskine's Speech, at the Trial of Williams, for publishing Paine's "Age of Reason")

Thomas Paine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Religious views

Before his arrest and imprisonment in France, knowing that he would probably be arrested and executed, Paine, following in the tradition of early eighteenth-century British deism, wrote the first part of The Age of Reason, an assault on organized "revealed" religion combining a compilation of the many inconsistencies he found in the Bible with his own advocacy of deism, and calling for "free rational inquiry" into all subjects, especially religion.
About his own religious beliefs, Paine wrote in The Age of Reason:
I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of.

My own mind is my own church. All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.





.
 
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EnemyOfReason

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I do not understand your post or its purpose.
Please express what you are trying to say
 
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KWCrazy

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"He" wrote nothing in the bible... even the bible itself does not make such a claim. The bible is a work of Man.
"HE" wrote out the Ten Commandments on stone tablets and gave them to Moses. That includes the Fourth Commandment, as recorded in Exodus 20:11. These tablets are store in the Ark of the Covenant.
 
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Split Rock

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"HE" wrote out the Ten Commandments on stone tablets and gave them to Moses. That includes the Fourth Commandment, as recorded in Exodus 20:11. These tablets are store in the Ark of the Covenant.

So... that's it.... the ten commandments? Then HE didn't write anything in GEN 1-2.. correct?
 
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KWCrazy

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I never said we have been here billions of years but if we were we would have had the proper time to evolve into a higher species or would have had enough time be be extinct . Depends on how you look at it.
Extinction, definately.
Also I said "millions" not billions as I know of no animal that can trace its genetic legacy that far back.
Millions, billions, trillions, same lie, just not as impressive. If you believe in panspermia as the alternative to abiogenesis then you must think we are billions of years old. One lie or the other. You choose.
You are aware that I do not accept this concept correct? As far as I am concerned Adam and Eve were the first male and female Homo Sapiens to diverge from the era of Homo Neanderthalensis.
Ahh, you you make up your OWN religion. I get it. What will you call it?
No such evidence to prove a young earth exist. No such evidence for a flood or Nuh exists either. These are mythological conjurations provided to establish a point placed in the Tawrat.
So Mohammed and Jesus are both liars? What god are you a slave too, specifically? What servant calls his master a liar?
Irrelevant as I do not accept any claim of historicity in the Bible.
The Bible teaches us how to recognize false prophets. It might do you good to study this.
Muhammad didnot preach the Gospel, he taught his perceived form of it
You two have something in common.
In the Bible Saul is ordered to commit and act of genocide, as is Moses and these acts appear in accordance to Yahweh. To say Muhammad has taken a low ground is quite an understatement of events.
The enemies of the Isaraelites sought their destruction and would not allow them peace. It's quite the difference with Mohammed, who attacked his enemies, preached conversion by the sword, and who started wars. As for comparing Mohammed with Moses, how many miracles did Mohammed perform again? Oh, that's right. NONE!
I believe in what common sense and proven evidence provides.
Based on what criterian and proved to whom?
If anything disproves the Bible or Qur'an it must be rejected. No holy-book is perfect and they are the constructs of both wise men and foolish men.
Then in your opinion, neither is the word of God. Therefore, why give credance to a god whose word cannot be trusted? Why be the slave of any such god? You make no sense.
The Bible, Qur'an, Bhagvad Gita and various other texts have existed because they were written by very wise men and constructed in form of eloquence.
That is, of course, a complete and total fabrication. The Bible exists because it is the word of God. The Qu'an exists because it was written as an alternative to the God of the Jews and Christians.
I cannot validate everything the Qur'an says as there is no proof of it but I can still salvage what I know of it and study the rest until the very day I die.
In other words, God created you in His image, so you decided to return the favor. I get it.
Reason comes before religion and religion itself is a man-made construct.
Spoken as a man with no understanding.
Christianity and Islam are both religions constructed by men around the textual statements of a book or doctrine preached before the compilation's creation.
Christianity is the following of a man who lived a perfect life without sin, who cast out demons, healed the sick and raised the dead. Islam follows a much lesser flawed and sinful man who never perfomed a single miracle, and who had 15 wives, including a six year old.
To be an adherent of Islam is to be an adherent of a man-made construct from the parts of the Qur'an as such.....
Thank you for admitting it is a man made religion.
I am a Muslim because my definition of god can be found int he Qur'an along with the perception of this being.
However, you also believe the Qu'ran to be fabricated, full of errors, and written by man; not inspired by God. As such, it has no more religious value than a good short story does.
I did not witness the events Muhammad claims and I cannot validate them nor can you do such with the Bible as much of it has been invalidated.
But I can, and have. You see, God is real, and unlike the god of Mohammed He is capable of great and miraculous things. One of the things He is capable of is to give His followers the indwelling of the Holy Spirit by which we can communicate with God. Followers of make-believe religions have no such connection. I can understand your lack of faith when your religion comes from man, not God. You confirmed that very thing.
 
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AV1611VET

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By His hand, no. He dictated the Word to Moses.
Any professional secretary, skilled in the art of amanuensis, will tell you that what they write are the very words of their boss.
 
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Strathos

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I say alcohol is a sin -- you can say I need a PhD in chemistry, and I go get one and come back -- I'll still say alcohol is a sin.

Excessive alcohol (i.e. drunkenness) is a sin. Alcohol by itself is not (even Christ provided wine for a wedding).

I don't drink anyway, though.

? I do not understand the idea you are trying to propagate but I hope you are aware that asexual reproduction is more efficient.

For some species it is, sexual reproduction has advantages for others: Evolution of sexual reproduction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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