Do you believe the Devil is only limited to quoting Old Testament verses to decieve u

[ryangrom]

Another silly question but,

Do you believe that the Devil can use a New Testament verse to decieve you?

Click yes if you believe that the devil is only restricted to Old Testament verses

Click no if you believe that he can pull from the New Testament to decieve us

 

[Nazaroo]

Another silly question but,

Do you believe that the Devil can use a New Testament verse to decieve you?

Click yes if you believe that the devil is only restricted to Old Testament verses

Click no if you believe that he can pull from the New Testament to decieve us

The question is badly worded.

(1) The 'Devil' (Greek: diaboloV - "accuser" ) is precisely that.

This is a common Greek noun, not the actual name of a person. As a technical term, it had the meaning of 'prosecutor' or 'complainant' in a trial, throughout the Roman Empire in the time of Jesus.


(2) The Devil is Man. That is, natural, unrepentant man is the real accuser. The first thing Adam said before the Lord was, "The woman gave it to me,.." accusing and blaming the woman for his own sin.

But that commandment was given to Adam, and it was straightforward.

Adam falsely accused his woman, attempting to excuse his own sin.

But the Lord was unimpressed with Adam's garbage and threw him out of Eden, along with Eve.

His answer was both lie and an accusation.

Jesus re-affirmed this in the New Testament:

"You are of your father (Adam) the Accuser (diaboloV). And the desires of your father you will do (accuse others, and murder them). He was a murderer from the beginning, and also abode not in the truth, for there was no truth in him." (John 8:44)
​

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(3) The Temptation of Christ described in Luke 4:1-12 is a PARABLE of the Gospel Story, outlining in miniature the Gospel narrative which follows. To miss this is to miss the whole point of it.

Similarly, in Matthew the Temptation Parable is REARRANGED, precisely as Matthew rearranges the material in the Gospel narrative which follows.

Why does Matthew rearrange both the Temptation Parable AND the narrative that follows? Because they are mirror refllections of one another, a blueprint containing a key argument.

In Luke's original arrangement, The people (Satan) will not see Jesus again until they learn to say "Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord."

In Matthew's final re-arrangment, he emphasizes that the Jews STILL HAVEN'T learned to say "Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord."

Matthew gives the Jews who were resisting the gospel and persecuting the early Church a massive SMACK-DOWN, in rearranging Luke's original gospel, and its hidden message, found in the structural arrangement and the layout of the Gospel story.

Miss this, and you will never understand why the material is differently arranged in Matthew, even though he reproduces 95% of the material in Luke in one form or another.

(Matthew's changes to some of Luke's material also reinforce his new position on the Jews.)

----------------------------------------------

So now lets review your question again:

Do you believe that the Devil can use a New Testament verse to decieve you?

Click yes if you believe that the devil is only restricted to Old Testament verses

The short answer is that the 'devil' can never deceive God-fearing disciples of Jesus who are sober, working, and bearing the fruit of the Spirit of God.

The 'devil', whether in the form of personal temptations (a man is only tempted by his own lust, not by God or 'the devil'), or in the form of Jewish persecutors and infilterators with false doctrines, vain philosophies and Jewish fables, (cf. Paul's letters) cannot decieve anyone unless they are falling into their own sins, and leaving themselves vulnerable.

The 'devil' is not restricted to any foolish 'rule' regarding Old Testament or New. The fact is, any person or book can be misquoted or misapplied.

There is no Scripture guaranteeing that the Teachings of Christ or other Words of God in the NT will not be abused or twisted to foul purposes.

In fact, the Gospel story illustrates the fact that even when presented with the Word of Jesus Christ, some people will deceive themselves, because they cannot hear it properly, because they WILL not receive it and conscientiously apply it in their lives, by OBEYING it.

So a man is free to reject truth, or mis-hear it, or mis-apply it, and DECEIVE HIMSELF.

However, no humble and sincere follower of Jesus will be left in the dark for long, if they seek the Word of Jesus, the righteousness of God, and the kingdom of God.

"The hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in Spirit and in Truth: for the Father seeks this kind of person to worship Him." (John 4:23)
​

 

[ryangrom]

i made this poll because brotherbrown claims that any verse that pops into his head is automatically from the Holy Spirit. I used the story of the temptation of christ to show how the devil can use scripture against us. So he defended his claim by saying that the Devil can only quote OT verses and that any NT verse that pops into someones head is automatically from the quickening of the Holy Spirit.

He wouldnt believe me and accused me of being decieved by the devil so I figured I'd open the question to everyone else.

 

[Dave01]

Satan can utilize the OT and NT. There is no scripture reference that says he only uses the OT.

 

[Brotherbrown]

Satan can utilize the OT and NT. There is no scripture reference that says he only uses the OT.

Well now here are some verses about both. The Holy Spirit brings to remembrance(by quoting) the things that Jesus has ALREADY SAID TO YOU. Which when you read the new testament He is speaking to you.

John 14:26
26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.
(NKJ)
John 16:13-14
13 "However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.
14 "He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you.
(NKJ)

Satan doesnt do anything that glorifies Christ and Christ doesnt do anything that glorifies satan. They both have two different kingdoms. Satan has the old testament and Christ has the new testament.

Matt 12:25-28
25 But Jesus knew their thoughts, and said to them: "Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand.
26 "If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand?
27 "And if I cast out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they shall be your judges.
28 "But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you.
(NKJ)

 

[Dave01]

Well now here are some verses about both. The Holy Spirit brings to remembrance(by quoting) the things that Jesus has ALREADY SAID TO YOU. Which when you read the new testament He is speaking to you.

John 14:26
26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.
(NKJ)
John 16:13-14
13 "However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.
14 "He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you.
(NKJ)

Satan doesnt do anything that glorifies Christ and Christ doesnt do anything that glorifies satan. They both have two different kingdoms. Satan has the old testament and Christ has the new testament.

Matt 12:25-28
25 But Jesus knew their thoughts, and said to them: "Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand.
26 "If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand?
27 "And if I cast out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they shall be your judges.
28 "But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you.
(NKJ)

That was a bunch of garbage.

Unless you have direct scripture quotes (which I already know there are none), then satan has complete reign to use whatever scripture he likes against us.

 

[Brotherbrown]

That was a bunch of garbage.

Unless you have direct scripture quotes (which I already know there are none), then satan has complete reign to use whatever scripture he likes against us.

Well he seems to be enjoying you.

 

[Dave01]

Well he seems to be enjoying you.

Provide your quotes and proof squeak or retract your statement.

 

[Brotherbrown]

Provide your quotes and proof squeak or retract your statement.

But I have. It seems to be over your head though. It appears that I'm not the problem here.

 

[Dave01]

But I have. It seems to be over your head though. It appears that I'm not the problem here.

No.

What you did was what you normally do on websites, throw together a bunch of scripture that you suppposedly heard some spirit talking to you about. That batch of scripture you threw together does not have a single proof in it that states your case. You will need to do better than that.

 

[Nazaroo]

Well now here are some verses about both. The Holy Spirit brings to remembrance(by quoting) the things that Jesus has ALREADY SAID TO YOU. Which when you read the new testament He is speaking to you.

John 14:26
26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.
(NKJ)
John 16:13-14
13 "However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.
14 "He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you.
(NKJ)

So far, so good. The Holy Spirit does indeed glorify the Father and Son by bringing their teaching and commandments into rememberance.

---------------------------------------------

Now here is where your message begins to get flakey:

(1) Satan doesnt do anything that glorifies Christ and Christ doesnt do anything that glorifies satan.

(2) They both have two different kingdoms.

(3) Satan has the old testament and Christ has the new testament.

Proposition (1) has the surface appearance of truth, but is in fact not supported by Holy Scripture.

In fact, Satan (The Adversary) is used (exploited) by the Christ without Satan's knowledge or consent, and the result is that Satan inadvertantly and unintentionally DOES glorify the Christ:



The mystery and plan of God hidden in the crucifixion of the Saviour was completely unknown and misunderstood by the Adversary; This was a mystery...

"...which NONE of the Rulers of this cosmos knew: For had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of Glory!" (1st Cor. 2:7-8)​

So in fact The Adversary has done many things which inadvertantly glorify the Christ, and this is accomplished AGAINST the will of the Adversary. Satan inspired the crucifixion of the Christ. Yet this very act was a trick, part of the hidden plan of God to destroy the kingdom of Satan.

-----------------------------------------------

(2) "They (the Christ and the Adversary) both have two different kingdoms."

Again what has a surface appearance of 'truth' is in fact a lie.

The Christ invaded and conquered the kingdom(s) of the Adversary, both in Heaven and on Earth:



The Adversary's Kingdom on Earth is Invaded:

"How else can One enter into a strong man's house and spoil his property, unless He first binds the strong man, and then spoils his house." (Matt. 12:29) ​

The Adversary's 'kingdom in Heaven' is invaded and taken:

"I saw Satan fall as lightning from Heaven." (Luke 10:18, John 12:31)​

So the Adversary HAS no 'kingdom'. All has become the Kingdom of the Christ.

-------------------------------

(3)"Satan has the old testament and Christ has the new testament."

This statement is completely made up, and has no Scriptural support whatever.

In fact the Christ has ALL things, since by Him were all things created (John 1:3) and ALL things have been delivered again into the Son's hand (John 5:22, 16:15)

Satan has nothing.

Matt 12:25-28
25 But Jesus knew their thoughts, and said to them: "Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand.
26 "If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand?
27 "And if I cast out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they shall be your judges.
28 "But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you.
(NKJ)

Nothing here supports any of your theses. Jesus does not say that the kingdom of the Adversary is actually divided against itself. He only argues that IF Jesus were actually using Satan's power to do miracles, it WOULD be.



The true import of this section is given by the last verse:

"The Kingdom of God has come upon you!" (Matt 12:28)​

 

[Brotherbrown]

So far, so good. The Holy Spirit does indeed glorify the Father and Son by bringing their teaching and commandments into rememberance.

---------------------------------------------

Now here is where your message begins to get flakey:



Proposition (1) has the surface appearance of truth, but is in fact not supported by Holy Scripture.

In fact, Satan (The Adversary) is used (exploited) by the Christ without Satan's knowledge or consent, and the result is that Satan inadvertantly and unintentionally DOES glorify the Christ:




The mystery and plan of God hidden in the crucifixion of the Saviour was completely unknown and misunderstood by the Adversary; This was a mystery...

"...which NONE of the Rulers of this cosmos knew: For had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of Glory!" (1st Cor. 2:7-8)​

So in fact The Adversary has done many things which inadvertantly glorify the Christ, and this is accomplished AGAINST the will of the Adversary. Satan inspired the crucifixion of the Christ. Yet this very act was a trick, part of the hidden plan of God to destroy the kingdom of Satan.

-----------------------------------------------

(2) "They (the Christ and the Adversary) both have two different kingdoms."

Again what has a surface appearance of 'truth' is in fact a lie.

The Christ invaded and conquered the kingdom(s) of the Adversary, both in Heaven and on Earth:




The Adversary's Kingdom on Earth is Invaded:

"How else can One enter into a strong man's house and spoil his property, unless He first binds the strong man, and then spoils his house." (Matt. 12:29) ​

The Adversary's 'kingdom in Heaven' is invaded and taken:

"I saw Satan fall as lightning from Heaven." (Luke 10:18, John 12:31)​

So the Adversary HAS no 'kingdom'. All has become the Kingdom of the Christ.

-------------------------------

(3)"Satan has the old testament and Christ has the new testament."

This statement is completely made up, and has no Scriptural support whatever.

In fact the Christ has ALL things, since by Him were all things created (John 1:3) and ALL things have been delivered again into the Son's hand (John 5:22, 16:15)

Satan has nothing.





Nothing here supports any of your theses. Jesus does not say that the kingdom of the Adversary is actually divided against itself. He only argues that IF Jesus were actually using Satan's power to do miracles, it WOULD be.




The true import of this section is given by the last verse:

"The Kingdom of God has come upon you!" (Matt 12:28)​

Your opinion
Proposition (1) has the surface appearance of truth, but is in fact not supported by Holy Scripture.

In fact, Satan (The Adversary) is used (exploited) by the Christ without Satan's knowledge or consent, and the result is that Satan inadvertantly and unintentionally DOES glorify the Christ:
My opinion
I think your missing something. Christ only done what the Father told Him to. Now maybe God was exploiting satan but Jesus wasnt.

John 8:29
29 "And He who sent Me is with Me. The Father has not left Me alone, for I always do those things that please Him."
John 12:49
49 "For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak.
(NKJ)


Your opinion
The mystery and plan of God hidden in the crucifixion of the Saviour was completely unknown and misunderstood by the Adversary; This was a mystery...
So in fact The Adversary has done many things which inadvertantly glorify the Christ, and this is accomplished AGAINST the will of the Adversary. Satan inspired the crucifixion of the Christ. Yet this very act was a trick, part of the hidden plan of God to destroy the kingdom of Satan.

My opinion
I think your misplaceing God with Christ. God can do what every He wants, but Jesus was only submissive to God the Father.
Your opinion
The Christ invaded and conquered the kingdom(s) of the Adversary, both in Heaven and on Earth:



The Adversary's Kingdom on Earth is Invaded:
This statement is completely made up, and has no Scriptural support whatever.

In fact the Christ has ALL things, since by Him were all things created (John 1:3) and ALL things have been delivered again into the Son's hand (John 5:22, 16:15)

Satan has nothing.

My opinion
Although everything was put under Christ feet. That hasnt happened yet, satan still has authority.

Heb 2:8-9
8 You have put all things in subjection under his feet." For in that He put all in subjection under him, He left nothing that is not put under him. But now we do not yet see all things put under him.
9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone.
(NKJ)

your opinion
Nothing here supports any of your theses. Jesus does not say that the kingdom of the Adversary is actually divided against itself. He only argues that IF Jesus were actually using Satan's power to do miracles, it WOULD be.
My opinion.
Well as you have a right to your opinion according to what you see. I will share what I see.

Rev 11:7-8
7 Now when they finish their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them.
8 And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
(NKJ)

Rev 12:17
17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
(NKJ)
Rev 13:7
7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation.
(NKJ)

 

[ryangrom]

take a look at this post brother brown made yesterday from
http://www.christianforums.com/t5737409-matthew-71-5.html

... Now everyone is born with two opinions-one is from your guardian angel-the other is the devil. And because the devil always gives the opposite of the guardian angel we get confused. Now to those who are following Jesus Christ(christians) we are trying to learn the opinion of the Holy Spirit. Now because the Holy Spirit only quotes verses it is easy to pick His opinion out of the confusion. But it is not easy to obey the Holy Spirit. Because of the influence the devil has had over us up until this point. Now the devil has always had help from our unclean spirits(emotions). And our guardian angel has only had help from our affections which are not strong like our emotions(unclean spirits). But because we believe in the power that accompanies the Holy Spirit(verses) we step out in faith that the power will be there if we make a commitment to the Holy Spirit(verses). So when a verse comes out of our mouths that is the Holy Spirits opinion, and by us letting the verse out we show our agreement with the Holy Spirit. But when that judgement comes out that is the Holy Spirit judgeing and not us, we are just in agreement with Him. Righteous judgment is done with the verses(Word of God) carnal judgment is done with the carnal language.

He is creating a new religion with each of his "revelations" that he is presenting to everyone on this message board as absolute fact. I have tried to tell him to state these as opinions so other christians won't be decieved. And that is why I keep findind myself in arguments with brotherbrown. He will call you decieved by the Devil if you try to prove him wrong. These boards would silence a Muslim trying to evangelise people wouldnt they? This is the same thing. Brotherbrown's doctrines are that far off to where he is creating a whole new religion.

 

[Brotherbrown]

take a look at this post brother brown made yesterday from
http://www.christianforums.com/t5737409-matthew-71-5.html



He is creating a new religion with each of his "revelations" that he is presenting to everyone on this message board as absolute fact. I have tried to tell him to state these as opinions so other christians won't be decieved. And that is why I keep findind myself in arguments with brotherbrown. He will call you decieved by the Devil if you try to prove him wrong. These boards would silence a Muslim trying to evangelise people wouldnt they? This is the same thing. Brotherbrown's doctrines are that far off to where he is creating a whole new religion.

Dont you believe that the Word of God is absolute truth.

II Jn 1:8-11
8 Look to yourselves, that we do not lose those things we worked for, but that we may receive a full reward.
9 Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.
10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him;
11 for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.
(NKJ)

 

[Brotherbrown]

ryangrom


Happy Birthday.

 

[ryangrom]

Yes i do believe the Word of God is absolute truth. People twist the word of God. The devil twists the word of God. Chrisitians who know the word of God can tell when it is being twisted.

your quote here: "Now everyone is born with two opinions-one is from your guardian angel-the other is the devil. And because the devil always gives the opposite of the guardian angel we get confused. Now to those who are following Jesus Christ(christians) we are trying to learn the opinion of the Holy Spirit. Now because the Holy Spirit only quotes verses it is easy to pick His opinion out of the confusion."

That is serious twisting. big time twisting! Christians who are in the Word can tell when the Word of God is being twisted. The fact that the Devil can only quote Old Testament verses is a twist. You showed us your verse to plead your case, but noone recognizes that verse as saying anything remotelly close to what you are claiming. The Holy spirit only being restricted to quoting some New Testament verse language is serious twisting of the Word. Saying that in our minds we have the opinions of angels, the devil, the holy spirit, and our own opinions is serious twisting. We as Christians believe the word of God. But we dont believe your spin on it. Not a single one of us from any of these posts does. the polls are unanimous.