Do you believe in once saved, always saved?

[HumbleMan]

NASB? New something something Bible?


["looks like a quote from the NASB, which is about the most literal translation on the market."

btw, most literal doesn't necessarily mean easiest to use for usto get the right meaning due to the differences in how a meaning is achieved in different languages. Not that I mean to degrade this translation at all, just a point to remember...]

(1Jo 2:19 HCSB) They went out from us, but they did not belong to us; for if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. However, they went out so that it might be made clear that none of them belongs to us.

(1Jo 2:19 AMP) They went out from our number, but they did not [really] belong to us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us. But [they withdrew] that it might be plain that they all are not of us.

(1Jo 2:19 MSG) They left us, but they were never really with us. If they had been, they would have stuck it out with us, loyal to the end. In leaving, they showed their true colors, showed they never did belong.

In particular, the Message is a very liberally translated version. I think these three are a good cross section of the bible market.

 

[eldermike]

(1Jo 2:19 HCSB) They went out from us, but they did not belong to us; for if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. However, they went out so that it might be made clear that none of them belongs to us.

(1Jo 2:19 AMP) They went out from our number, but they did not [really] belong to us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us. But [they withdrew] that it might be plain that they all are not of us.

(1Jo 2:19 MSG) They left us, but they were never really with us. If they had been, they would have stuck it out with us, loyal to the end. In leaving, they showed their true colors, showed they never did belong.

In particular, the Message is a very liberally translated version. I think these three are a good cross section of the bible market.

The message is a paraphrase, a good one IMO. It does get the point across.

 

[givengrace]

NO,you can fall from grace and need to get back to GOD. I cannot believe how many people said yes..

I don't know were you go to Church but this is under a Baptist Thead And I thought ALL BAPIST belived the same. OSAS.

If your not a Baptist you should not be useing our Poll

Or at least if you did you should let people know you are not a Baptist.

 

[HumbleMan]

Actually, there are a lot of Baptists that don't subscribe to OSAS.

 

[Katakalupto]

I am FreeWill Baptist. We do not believe in OSAS.

 

[JacobHall86]

OSAS> No.

Perseverance of the Saints? Yes.

 

[eldermike]

I don't know were you go to Church but this is under a Baptist Thead And I thought ALL BAPIST belived the same. OSAS.

If your not a Baptist you should not be useing our Poll

Or at least if you did you should let people know you are not a Baptist.

I understand your view of this

The best I can gather from historical Baptists studies this subject never came up. If you follow the separatists view of Baptists roots you will find that atonement (for some/for all) was the issue of the day. All separatists came out of works based churches, all separatists had by choice left this subject behind them. There was no discussion on how to "stay saved", saints were saints all the time, and for all time . The church of England did everything to convince separatists that they were all hell bound. "What do I need to do to stay saved"? was not a question of the day. I personally believe that adopting OSNAS is a view not in line with historic Baptists of any flavor. Anyone agree?, Disagree?

 

[givengrace]

OSAS> No.

Perseverance of the Saints? Yes.

My parents go to your Church and I know many people including staff (I notice the last name are you related to the Paster Ken?)And I belive your not the majority as far a Southern Baptist belive.

 

[HumbleMan]

I think the historical pride baptists have had in their personal and scriptural independance would render only one doctrine essential- the atonement of Christ. Now, if baptists wanted to become a real denomination, and have creeds and be doctrinely bound, I can understand wanting to incorporate the security of the believer, Calvinism, seperation, etc.

 

[givengrace]

I understand your view of this

The best I can gather from historical Baptists studies this subject never came up. If you follow the separatists view of Baptists roots you will find that atonement (for some/for all) was the issue of the day. All separatists came out of works based churches, all separatists had by choice left this subject behind them. There was no discussion on how to "stay saved", saints were saints all the time, and for all time . The church of England did everything to convince separatists that they were all hell bound. "What do I need to do to stay saved"? was not a question of the day. I personally believe that adopting OSNAS is a view not in line with historic Baptists of any flavor. Anyone agree?, Disagree?

Maybe this a reason for why so many churches split
I know at my church (which is a SOUTHERN Baptist Church) We are taught FROM THE Staff OSAS. And my church is also a church who is UNITED in there belifes.

Just another reason not to like The Traditonal church.

 

[JacobHall86]

My parents go to your Church and I know many people including staff (I notice the last name are you related to the Paster Ken?)And I belive your not the majority as far a Southern Baptist belive.

Sadly you are correct that I am in the minority about it.

I beleive the words of OSAS, but not what it leads too. It implies that you can do whatever you want because you are saved. Where as Perseverance makes it clear that you will continue on in sanctification.

I am not related to the pastor, although his sons are buddies of mine.

 

[givengrace]

Sadly you are correct that I am in the minority about it.

I beleive the words of OSAS, but not what it leads too. It implies that you can do whatever you want because you are saved. Where as Perseverance makes it clear that you will continue on in sanctification.

I am not related to the pastor, although his sons are buddies of mine.

I got this off your churchs webpage.

I'm sorry you don't understand OSAS but I don't see it as you do.




[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Times NewRoman]Election is the gracious purpose of God, according to which He regenerates, justifies, sanctifies, and glorifies sinners. It is consistent with the free agency of man, and comprehends all the means in connection with the end. It is the glorious display of God's sovereign goodness, and is infinitely wise, holy, and unchangeable. It excludes boasting and promotes humility. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Times NewRoman]All true believers endure to the end. Those whom God has accepted in Christ, and sanctified by His Spirit, will never fall away from the state of grace, but shall persevere to the end. Believers may fall into sin through neglect and temptation, whereby they grieve the Spirit, impair their graces and comforts, and bring reproach on the cause of Christ and temporal judgments on themselves; yet they shall be kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation. [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Times NewRoman]Genesis 12:1-3; Exodus 19:5-8; 1 Samuel 8:4-7,19-22; Isaiah 5:1-7; Jeremiah 31:31ff.; Matthew 16:18-19; 21:28-45; 24:22,31; 25:34; Luke 1:68-79; 2:29-32; 19:41-44; 24:44-48; John 1:12-14; 3:16; 5:24; 6:44-45,65; 10:27-29; 15:16; 17:6,12,17-18; Acts 20:32; Romans 5:9-10; 8:28-39; 10:12-15; 11:5-7,26-36; 1 Corinthians 1:1-2; 15:24-28; Ephesians 1:4-23; 2:1-10; 3:1-11; Colossians 1:12-14; 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14; 2 Timothy 1:12; 2:10,19; Hebrews 11:39–12:2; James 1:12; 1 Peter 1:2-5,13; 2:4-10; 1 John 1:7-9; 2:19; 3:2.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Times NewRoman]

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[SomeHearts]

I do believe that once your saved you are always saved. The Bible says that If you believe in your heart that Jesus is God's son and confess with your mouth that he died on the cross to save our sins, that you are saved. No verse says to be careful because you can lose your salvation. No verse says that because you can not lose your salvation

 

[Savedsis]

I read this once...People who are constantly examing their spiritual condidion tend to fall into the trap of legalism. Legalism is almost always accompanied by two sidekicks...self deception (calling sins by some other name so as to lessen the guilt) and pride. These go together to accomplish in a life the very opposite of what Christ intended..
Self-deception, accompanied by layer upon layer of denial, ultimately leads to greater and greater sin. Pride in these cases results in a critical spirit. Show me a believer who is caught up in trying to maintain God's acceptance through good works, and we see a fragile saint...Sometimes these people who on the surface appear to be completely sold out to personal holiness and purity but who suddenly disappear. It is not unusual for these well meaning types to end up in a lifestyle completely opposite of what they once stood for...Such is the potential danger of a life lived without the assurance that salvation is forever....

 

[eldermike]

I read this once...People who are constantly examing their spiritual condidion tend to fall into the trap of legalism. Legalism is almost always accompanied by two sidekicks...self deception (calling sins by some other name so as to lessen the guilt) and pride. These go together to accomplish in a life the very opposite of what Christ intended..
Self-deception, accompanied by layer upon layer of denial, ultimately leads to greater and greater sin. Pride in these cases results in a critical spirit. Show me a believer who is caught up in trying to maintain God's acceptance through good works, and we see a fragile saint...Sometimes these people who on the surface appear to be completely sold out to personal holiness and purity but who suddenly disappear. It is not unusual for these well meaning types to end up in a lifestyle completely opposite of what they once stood for...Such is the potential danger of a life lived without the assurance that salvation is forever....

There is much to support what you say here.

 

[godsgirl80]

I believe OSAS as scriptures does not point that one can loose their salvation. Praise God for that. Everyone will sin during their lifetime, but it is the faith in Jesus Christ that will allow us to see Heaven and our Father.

 

[JacobHall86]

I got this off your churchs webpage.

I'm sorry you don't understand OSAS but I don't see it as you do.




[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Times NewRoman]Election is the gracious purpose of God, according to which He regenerates, justifies, sanctifies, and glorifies sinners. It is consistent with the free agency of man, and comprehends all the means in connection with the end. It is the glorious display of God's sovereign goodness, and is infinitely wise, holy, and unchangeable. It excludes boasting and promotes humility. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Times NewRoman]All true believers endure to the end. Those whom God has accepted in Christ, and sanctified by His Spirit, will never fall away from the state of grace, but shall persevere to the end. Believers may fall into sin through neglect and temptation, whereby they grieve the Spirit, impair their graces and comforts, and bring reproach on the cause of Christ and temporal judgments on themselves; yet they shall be kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation. [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Times NewRoman]Genesis 12:1-3; Exodus 19:5-8; 1 Samuel 8:4-7,19-22; Isaiah 5:1-7; Jeremiah 31:31ff.; Matthew 16:18-19; 21:28-45; 24:22,31; 25:34; Luke 1:68-79; 2:29-32; 19:41-44; 24:44-48; John 1:12-14; 3:16; 5:24; 6:44-45,65; 10:27-29; 15:16; 17:6,12,17-18; Acts 20:32; Romans 5:9-10; 8:28-39; 10:12-15; 11:5-7,26-36; 1 Corinthians 1:1-2; 15:24-28; Ephesians 1:4-23; 2:1-10; 3:1-11; Colossians 1:12-14; 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14; 2 Timothy 1:12; 2:10,19; Hebrews 11:39–12:2; James 1:12; 1 Peter 1:2-5,13; 2:4-10; 1 John 1:7-9; 2:19; 3:2.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Times NewRoman]

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That is exactly waht I beleive. I dont believe you can lose your salvation, but OSAS is not supported with Scripture. The term Once Saved Always saved is the basis of a Carnal Doctrine. I think you are misunderstanding what I beleive. I am a Calvinist. I believe in TULIP, therefore believing TULIP i beleive Perseverance of the Saints, which is what my church has outlined above.

I see them as differant.

OSAS> Freedom to sin because it is forgiven

Perseverance> Continuing on in sanctification.

I beleive hte Words "Once Saved Always Saved" just not the carnal ideals that it leads to.

 

[Jason19]

I believe once saved always saved... but God is clear we will bear fruit if we ever were once saved, at the same time He is also faithful to bring us back if we fall away... so it becomes a matter of the individual heart... but let this poll be a warning to us all to make sure we have the evidence of once being saved!

 

[JPPT1974]

Absolutely 100% yes but if you
Really, really know in your heart and soul
That you are!

 

[IisJustMe]

The question I would like to pose to you is that how do you ever know a person is truly absolved of their sins?

And the answer is, we don't. But then again, we aren't the ones to judge the heart. That's the purview of God and God alone. Not only can you not know for certain the position in Christ another has, it isn't even any of your business. That is between the other person and God. The only judgment we can make of another is whether or not their actions line up with the faith they claim to hold. In Matthew 18:15-17, Jesus outlines the proper method of church discipline for those who stray outside the obvious guidelines of behavior, first approaching them in love to point out their sin, and if rejected, to take two or three witnesses with us and confront them. If there is still no response, they are to be put before the church, and if still refusing to confess, they are to be separated from fellowship, both to get their attention, and to avoid their sinful acts from staining the body of Christ and hindering its work.

Paul did precisely that in 1 Corinthians 5:2, chastising the church at Corinth for failing to respond to the sin of a young man having an affair with his stepmother and allowing him to continue in fellowship. In 2 Corinthians 2:2-7, we learn the discipline had the desired effect, as the young man had apparently repented and the church was encouraged by the apostle to embrace him, lest his heart break. Never did Paul indicate the young man had lost his salvation. In fact, he turned the unrepentant man "over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh" so that he may yet be saved on the day of the Lord. That incident alone proves eternal security and the unbiblical nature of your argument.

As for your acquaintence whom you state I 'do not know, so you cannot make a statement' or something to that effect, I don't need to know him. If he had previously expressed a true and saving faith in Christ, he still belongs to him and will repent or be removed from this life, as the young man at Corinth faced. If he has not, he either will some day do so, or he will perish in his sins and face eternal separation from God in hell. Which brings up this statement earlier in the thread:

I personally do not subscribe to the o.s.a.s. doctrine. The reason for this is because of something that happened to me 2.5 years ago. I was saved about 11 years ago but after 3 years I had backslidden back to my former ways, I still believed in God but did not honor or obey Him in any way. I became really sick 2.5 years ago and was in alot of pain. I felt God saying to me, "Where are you going to spend eternity?" I very quickly returned to the Lord in all ways.

Keep in mind that Hebrews 6:1-6 very clearly states that if once you turn away, you cannot be restored. Therefore, did you really lose your salvation? Hardly.

The question God asked you ("Where are you going to spend eternity?") wasn't a challenge to make a decision. It was a reminder of who you are in Christ. He wasn't telling you, "Decide for Me, or reject Me," He was telling you, "You belong to Me, why are you acting like you don't?"

Like many Christians, you stumbled and fell. But God did not abandon you, nor condemn you. He waited for you to ask for His help, He picked up you and dusted you off, and set you back on the right path. If the Hebrews passage actually taught that you could lose your salvation, there would be no restoration, no 'recommitment of faith' as happens every Sunday mroning in churches around the world. Once lost, never again could you speak to God as your Father and Savior through Christ. It would not be possible. Obviously, however, it is possible, and just as obviously the rejection of the biblical truth of eternal security is an unwise desire to place limitations on God and put us, not Him, in control.

What the Hebrews passage teaches is the folly of thinking we have the ability to overpower Christ, that we are an exception to "no one" when Jesus says "no one can snatch them from My hand ... no once can snatch them from My Father's hand ... " At the same time the passage teaches that mere words, even in the form of a prayer, do not save us. What saves us is our admission, in our hearts with true conviction, that we are sinners in need of a Savior, and He is Christ. Saying it doesn't make it true for us, even if we've made a dramatic production of it by walking an aisle with our friends and family looking on. Believing it does, and that is something that only God can see.